Islam and the Crucifixion

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In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny: Where does it say he disguises himself?

Jermin Savory: After being put on the cross, Jesus (pbuh) never appeared as or like a spirit, he demonstrated that in the gospel of luke 24:38-44. " Why are you troubled? And why do questions arise in your hearts? 39, Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see, because a Ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have." 41, " Have you anything here to eat?" Which means that he was ALIVE, in the flesh, not spiritual like when you die and resurrect. Moreover, again proves that he was always a fleshly body and that he never died, he stayed ALIVE as stated in the Prophecy of Jonah in Matthew 12:38-40. I is not saying directly that he disguise him self but he didn’t appear in the open for if the Jews see him that he is not dead, they would make another attempt to kill him becasue he didn’t die in the first place.
 
In the name of Allah

John 20:15 states " Women, why are you weeping? Whom are you looking for? " she THOUGHT it was the gardener and said to him, " Sir, if you have carried HIM (not a spirit) away, tell me where you laid HIM, (not a spirit) and I will take him." Which means that he was ALIVE and not a spirit cause resurrected bodies are spiritualized 1 Corintians 15:42-44.

so its obvious from this passage that he wasn’t recognized as Jesus so obviously he was disguised for his safety from the Jews being that he was not kill or suffered death on the cross.
 
By the way, after looking at your quote- In its full context about someone being spiritually ressurected-

Luke 20:30-40 (New International Version

30The second 31and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32Finally, the woman died too. 33Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?"
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 34Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.'[a](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=,%20Luke%2020:30-40;&version=31;#fen-NIV-25808a)] 38He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive." 

 39Some of the teachers of the law responded, "Well said, teacher!" 40And no one dared to ask him any more questions.
It is evident that the spiritual ressurection is what happens AT THE END OF THE WORLD, not the kind Jesus, those he raised, or the man who ressurected from Elijah’s bones experienced.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

John 20:15 states " Women, why are you weeping? Whom are you looking for? " she THOUGHT it was the gardener and said to him, " Sir, if you have carried HIM (not a spirit) away, tell me where you laid HIM, (not a spirit) and I will take him." Which means that he was ALIVE and not a spirit cause resurrected bodies are spiritualized 1 Corintians 15:42-44.
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Exactly! They are at the tomb because there is no body, and they themselves laid him there! He has ressurected and gone away!
 
1 Corinthians 15:30-50 (New International Version)

35But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. 42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians 15:30-50;&version=31;#fen-NIV-28748b”)]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall wec] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

Again, what is being described is the Ressurection on the Last Day, not the kind that happened in the cases mentioned above.
 
In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny: 34Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels.

Jermin Savory: Exactly, this just proves my argument, resurrect bodies are spiritualized, not physicalize as Jesus (P) was after he allegedly “raised.” This is what Luke 20:35-36, 1 Corintians 15:42-44 and also Hebrews 9:27 confirms that he didn’t really died. If someone dies, they are spiritualized.
 
Again, they are referring to the ressurection at the end of the world. Look at the context.
 
In the name of Allah

Mark 16:11,says the deciples heard from Mary that Jesus (pbuh) was Alive <— " When they heard that he was ALIVE and had been seen by her, they didn’t believe." When you are living you rise, when you are dead you resurrect
 
In the name of Allah

**
Fuzzbunny:** Again, they are referring to the ressurection at the end of the world. Look at the context.

**
Jermin Savory:** I’ve check the context hundreds of time, you said that he died and resurrected therefore I assert that resurrection is only on the day of Judgment so how could he have resurrected, thus he didn’t die because he was physicalized.

How do you account for 1corintians 15:42-44?
 
Mark 16:5-20 (New International Version)

5As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.
Code: 
 6"Don't be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7But go, tell his disciples and Peter, 'He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.' " 

 8Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid. 

 9When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.      12Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. 13These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either. 

 14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. 

 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." 

 19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.
Again, risen, as in risen FROM THE DEAD means ressurection. Paul later varifies that he has ressurected.
 
In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny: 35But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.

Jermin Savory: This just pove my argument that he didn’t die because as the verse says, the dead will come with a spiritual body, does it not? so how could Jesus (P) have died if he wasn’t a spiritual body?

Luke 24:35-36 “Behold its me, handle my hands and see for a spirit has no flesh and bones like you see me have”. They we’re not eyewitness according to Mark 14:50, " and they all (Deciples) fled and left him at the seen."
 
Rise


  1. *] To assume a standing position after lying, sitting, or kneeling.
    *] To get out of bed: rose at dawn.
    *]To move from a lower to a higher position; ascend: Hot air rises.
    *]To increase in size, volume, or level: The river rises every spring.
    *]To increase in number, amount, or value: Prices are rising.
    *]To increase in intensity, force, or speed: The wind has risen.
    *]To increase in pitch or volume: The sound of their voices rose and fell.
    *]To appear above the horizon: The sun rises later in the fall.
    *]To extend upward; be prominent: The tower rose above the hill.
    *]To slant or slope upward: Mount McKinley rises to nearly 6,200 meters.
    *]To come into existence; originate.
    *] To be erected: New buildings are rising in the city.
    *]To appear at the surface of the water or the earth; emerge.
    *] To puff up or become larger; swell up: The bread dough should rise to double its original size.
    *]To become stiff and erect.
    *] To attain a higher status: an officer who rose through the ranks.
    *]To become apparent to the mind or senses: Old fears rose to haunt me.
    *]To uplift oneself to meet a demand or challenge: She rose to the occasion and won the election.
    *]To return to life.
    *] To rebel: “the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government” (Abraham Lincoln).
    *]To close a session of an official assembly; adjourn.

    No where does it ever say no one will be ressurected except on the last day. Again, I point you towards the man who touched Elijah’s bones, and the people Jesus ressurected.
 
In the name of Allah

6"Don’t be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.’ " Which means he was not crucified? or death didn’t catch him. He was alive for only resurrected bodies are spiritual.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny: 35But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.

Jermin Savory: This just pove my argument that he didn’t die because as the verse says, the dead will come with a spiritual body, does it not? so how could Jesus (P) have died if he wasn’t a spiritual body?

Luke 24:35-36 “Behold its me, handle my hands and see for a spirit has no flesh and bones like you see me have”. They we’re not eyewitness according to Mark 14:50, " and they all (Deciples) fled and left him at the seen."
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Please do not take things out of context. Again, last day ressurection. By spirit, he meant a ghost.

37They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” 40When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.

Mark 14

43Just as he was speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, appeared. With him was a crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests, the teachers of the law, and the elders. 44Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him and lead him away under guard.” 45Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Rabbi!” and kissed him. 46The men seized Jesus and arrested him. 47Then one of those standing near drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
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 48"Am I leading a rebellion," said Jesus, "that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? 49Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled." 50Then everyone deserted him and fled. 

 51A young man, wearing nothing but a linen garment, was following Jesus. When they seized him, 52he fled naked, leaving his garment behind.
They fled after the Agony in the Garden when the Jews came to arrest him.
 
In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny: No where does it ever say no one will be ressurected except on the last day. Again, I point you towards the man who touched Elijah’s bones, and the people Jesus ressurected.

**
Jermin Savory:** in the book of Hebrews, 9:27 it states “After a man dies, its the day of resurrection.”

This verse is plain as day
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

6"Don’t be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.’ " Which means he was not crucified? or death didn’t catch him. He was alive for only resurrected bodies are spiritual.
Click to expand...
What book and chapter is this? Again, spiritual ressurected bodies are THE LAST DAY. My friend, if you cannot agree with me on that point, which I believe I have presented sufficient evidence that that is what it is being referred to, there is no point in continueing this discussion.
 
In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny: 37They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” 40When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.

**
Jermin Savory: **Now you are using the words when it is convenient for you, which isn’t smart. A word should be a word no matter where or when you decide to use it.

This is because they though that he died, so they clarified their doubt because they weren’t eyewitness to know if he died or not as mark 14:50 said. So this is why they told him they will not believe until they touch him, because they heard that he died and had given up the ghost.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny: No where does it ever say no one will be ressurected except on the last day. Again, I point you towards the man who touched Elijah’s bones, and the people Jesus ressurected.

**
Jermin Savory:** in the book of Hebrews, 9:27 it states “After a man dies, its the day of resurrection.”

This verse is plain as day
Click to expand...
Again, this contradicts the other ressurections. The average person is not ressurected like Elijah and co! They are referring, again, to Armageddon. The other versions I have read “judgement” or something to the degree.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny: 37They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” 40When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.

**
Jermin Savory: **Now you are using the words when it is convenient for you, which isn’t smart. A word should be a word no matter where or when you decide to use it.

This is because they though that he died, so they clarified their doubt because they weren’t eyewitness to know if he died or not as mark 14:50 said. So this is why they told him they will not believe until they touch him, because they heard that he died and had given up the ghost.
Click to expand...
Ghost and spirit can be synonmys. Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost. The word is the same in the original language, it doesn’t seem like it would matter. Again, Mark 14:50 is referring to after the Agony in the Garden.
 
In the name of Allah
**
Fuzzbunny:** What book and chapter is this? Again, spiritual ressurected bodies are THE LAST DAY. My friend, if you cannot agree with me on that point, which I believe I have presented sufficient evidence that that is what it is being referred to, there is no point in continueing this discussion.
**
Jermin Savory:** This is hebrews 9:27 and i’ve proven to you that after a man dies it is the day of resurrection.
 
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