Islam and the Crucifixion

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In the name of Allah

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Fuzzbunny: **Ghost and spirit can be synonmys. Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost. The word is the same in the original language, it doesn’t seem like it would matter.

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Jermin Savory:** They can be synonyms but not in this case, there verses of the bible are as plain as day. There is no playing in words. Seems like you’re not sure. According to you “it doesn’t seem like it would matter.”
 
New International

27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

New American Standard Bible

27And inasmuch as (A)it is appointed for men to die once and after this (**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews 9:27;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30133B”))comes judgment,

King James Version

27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Again, at the end of the world there is a general judgement for all, then the good are ressurected and go to Heaven, I believe. I don’t know much about that stuff, if someone could clarify for me.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

**
Fuzzbunny: **Ghost and spirit can be synonmys. Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost. The word is the same in the original language, it doesn’t seem like it would matter.

**
Jermin Savory:** They can be synonyms but not in this case, there verses of the bible are as plain as day. There is no playing in words. Seems like you’re not sure. According to you “it doesn’t seem like it would matter.”
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I meant, if I use the word for spirit or ghost, it wouldn’t matter in the context being used. It could be either way. A spirit can easily be a ghost and vis versa, and thus ghost is the version that he is referring to. If spirit can mean ghost, and one translation is ghost, then ghost is what he is referring to.
 
In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny: Again, at the end of the world there is a general judgement for all, then the good are ressurected and go to Heaven, I believe. I don’t know much about that stuff, if someone could clarify for me.

Jermin Savory: Yes exactly and you’re saying that Jesus (P) died and resurrect as though it is the day of Judgment. I’m not falling for you explanations, I know the bible, i’m a student of the Bible. I can quote almost 50 verses by heart in the bible, i’ve studied your bible.
 
In the name of Allah

**Fuzzbunny :**I meant, if I use the word for spirit or ghost, it wouldn’t matter in the context being used. It could be either way. A spirit can easily be a ghost and vis versa, and thus ghost is the version that he is referring to. If spirit can mean ghost, and one translation is ghost, then ghost is what he is referring to.

Jermin Savory: Exactly, so then why are you interpreting the verses to mean a different situation in which resurrection would be used in its truth sense.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny: Again, at the end of the world there is a general judgement for all, then the good are ressurected and go to Heaven, I believe. I don’t know much about that stuff, if someone could clarify for me.

Jermin Savory: Yes exactly and you’re saying that Jesus (P) died and resurrect as though it is the day of Judgment. I’m not falling for you explanations, I know the bible, i’m a student of the Bible. I can quote almost 50 verses by heard in the bible, i’ve studied your bible.
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This was a special case!!! People have died, and “come back,” that is, been declared dead and then come alive again. Once more, Elijah’s bones and co. This suggests that there is time before one is judged and dies. In Peter.

1 Peter 15-20

15But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
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17For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
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19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Jesus was preaching to the spirits in “prison.” Most seem to think this refers to limbo.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

**Fuzzbunny :**I meant, if I use the word for spirit or ghost, it wouldn’t matter in the context being used. It could be either way. A spirit can easily be a ghost and vis versa, and thus ghost is the version that he is referring to. If spirit can mean ghost, and one translation is ghost, then ghost is what he is referring to.

Jermin Savory: Exactly, so then why are you interpreting the verses to mean a different situation in which resurrection would be used in its truth sense.
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I don’t know what you mean. What I am saying is Jesus is saying “Look at me, I’m not a ghost.” I’m not expert, but I’m sure there is a difference between Ghost-spirit, and spirit/soul that sort of thing word.
 
In the name of Allah

**
Fuzzbunny:** meant, if I use the word for spirit or ghost, it wouldn’t matter in the context being used. It could be either way. A spirit can easily be a ghost and vis versa

Jermin savory: Yes and thats how Christian apologetics teach you how to play in words?
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

**
Fuzzbunny:** meant, if I use the word for spirit or ghost, it wouldn’t matter in the context being used. It could be either way. A spirit can easily be a ghost and vis versa

Jermin savory: Yes and thats how Christian apologetics teach you how to play in words?
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What I am SAYING is that they can be SYNONYMS. Spirit, ghost, same thing in this case! If ghost can be used in place of spirit, it means ghost! Please do not accuse me of playing on words! I am sincerely trying to defend my faith. If I sincerely belief that what I am defending is the Truth, I would not twist the words! I am interpreting them to what seems very reasonable to me.
 
In the name of Allah

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Fuzzbunny: **I don’t know what you mean. What I am saying is Jesus is saying “Look at me, I’m not a ghost.”

Jermin Savory: Yes and that what i’m also saying, he is claiming that he is not a ghost and that he is flesh he is indirectly telling the deciples that he didn’t give up his ghost. They heard from hearesay that he died and was resurrected so then they are thinking that if their master comes to them he will be a spiritual body. so thats why he says, behold its me, handle my hands and see for a spirit has not flesh and bones like you see me have.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

**
Fuzzbunny: **I don’t know what you mean. What I am saying is Jesus is saying “Look at me, I’m not a ghost.”

Jermin Savory: Yes and that what i’m also saying, he is claiming that he is not a ghost and that he is flesh he is indirectly telling the deciples that he didn’t give up his ghost. They heard from hearesay that he died and was resurrected so then they are thinking that if their master comes to them he will be a spiritual body. so thats why he says, behold its me, handle my hands and see for a spirit has not flesh and bones like you see me have.
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Friend, the word is ghost. You saw a translation that doesn’t show what he is trying to say as well. Heard from heresy? Thats not what I believe. Wouldn’t he say “I never died?” He does not. He is simply saying that he is not some spooky ghost. He is risen flesh.
 
In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny, i’m sorry for accusing you of playing in words. May Allah forgive me.

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Fuzzbunny:** I am sincerely trying to defend my faith. If I sincerely belief that what I am defending is the Truth, I would not twist the words! I am interpreting them to what seems very reasonable to me.

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Jermin Savory**: It may seem reasonable to you but it doesn’t for me because i’m an unbiased reader of the bible, i’m not influenced by any teachings. I read the bible like it is.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

Fuzzbunny, i’m sorry for accusing you of playing in words. May Allah forgive me.

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Fuzzbunny:** I am sincerely trying to defend my faith. If I sincerely belief that what I am defending is the Truth, I would not twist the words! I am interpreting them to what seems very reasonable to me.

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Jermin Savory**: It may seem reasonable to you but it doesn’t for me because i’m an unbiased reader of the bible, i’m not influenced by any teachings. I read the bible like it is.
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You believe that it was corrupted. You and I are both biased. Let me put it to you this way-if it said, which in some translations it does, that he is not a ghost, shouldn’t it not change the meaning of things?
 
In the name of Allah
**

Fuzzbunny:** You saw a translation that doesn’t show what he is trying to say as well. Heard from heresy? Thats not what I believe. Wouldn’t he say “I never died?” He does not. He is simply saying that he is not some spooky ghost. He is risen flesh.

Jermin Savory: Your only proving my point by saing that he is not some spooky Ghost? By the way, why would he tell them the he is not some spooky ghost? There has got to be a reason for that? waiting for an answer to this question.
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah
**

Fuzzbunny:** You saw a translation that doesn’t show what he is trying to say as well. Heard from heresy? Thats not what I believe. Wouldn’t he say “I never died?” He does not. He is simply saying that he is not some spooky ghost. He is risen flesh.

Jermin Savory: Your only proving my point by saing that he is not some spooky Ghost? By the way, why would he tell them the he is not some spooky ghost? There has got to be a reason for that? waiting for an answer to this question.
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Because they were in disbelief that he has Ressurected. He is not some spooky ghost, he is flesh and blood. You see spirit and think spirit after the Ressurection it seems to me. I see ghost and it sounds to me that he is not saying hes a spirit that should not be in Heaven from the End Ressurection, but what he is saying, I think, is that he is not a ghost/spector. Again, this is because he is flesh and blood like you and I.
 
Jermin- I don’t know how to make this any clearer to you than Fuzzy has. You are referring to TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF RESSURECTION. One is a bodily resurrection, like what happened to Jesus and Lazarus (will you argue that he was a spirit, too?) and one is a spiritual resurrection like what will happen on the Last Day. Two different types of resurrection: one physical, one spiritual. I don’t think I can make it any more clear than this.
 
In the name of Allah

**
Fuzzbunny:** You believe that it was corrupted. You and I are both biased. Let me put it to you this way-if it said, which in some translations it does, that he is not a ghost, shouldn’t it not change the meaning of things?
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Jermin Savory:** The man says that he is not a ghost, shouldn’t that tell you that he is not resurrected?
 
Jermin Savory:
In the name of Allah

**
Fuzzbunny:** You believe that it was corrupted. You and I are both biased. Let me put it to you this way-if it said, which in some translations it does, that he is not a ghost, shouldn’t it not change the meaning of things?
**
Jermin Savory:** The man says that he is not a ghost, shouldn’t that tell you that he is not resurrected?
Click to expand...
If a ghost said hi to me, I would not think he is Ressurected in the sense that Jesus was. That makes no sense. Jesus was Ressurected in flesh and blood like Elijah’s bones effect, and those he raised, not like those at the end of the world. If we cannot agree that there are two kinds of ressurection, and that the kind Jesus was ressurected by was not the kind at the end of the world, there is no point in discussing this. You and I have two different definitions of ressurection as used in this sense.
 
In the name of Allah

Like i’ve told Fuzzbunny, Elija and Jesus (P) are to different situations. No one implied that Elija was dead and resurrected as Jesus (P) was. Nor was Elijas story conflicting in views of four accounts.
 
**Fuzzbunny **If a ghost said hi to me, I would not think he is Ressurected in the sense that Jesus was. That makes no sense. Jesus was Ressurected in flesh and blood like Elijah’s bones effect, and those he raised, not like those at the end of the world. If we cannot agree that there are two kinds of ressurection, and that the kind Jesus was ressurected by was not the kind at the end of the world, there is no point in discussing this. You and I have two different definitions of ressurection as used in this sense.
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Jermin Savory:** Why are you presenting a story that isn’t revelant to this one? How can you compare to different situations? Not logical. There is no such thing as “resurrected in flesh” Hebrews 9:27 after a man dies its the day of ressurection. If he died it would have been the day of resurrection.
 
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