Islam and the Virgin Birth of Jesus

[Analyzer]

So Jesus DID NOT ascribe the holy name of God to Himself nor said that God and He were ONE in lieteral sense.

Then what happened? Did those Jews “with stones in their hand” stop there? No. Why? because they were actually looking for trouble. Why? because these were the same progeny of people who used to kill their own prophets.They are strongly condemned by Jesus in very harsh words (read seven or eight WOES of Jesus in Matthew 23).

People who kill even their own prophets (gods-sons of god-godly people), what better you can expect from them? They can lie too. Lying is a very easy matter for them as opposed to killing the very messengers/prophets of God. If they hadl tried to get rid of an another prophet of God (say, Jesus), nothing surprise.

So now are you surpise at those Jews who again picked up rocks to stone him? Then what Jesus answered them? He answered: “I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of these are you trying to stone me?”
Here, being “God” he supposed to know their real intention of stoning. No? If their real concern was his claim of Divinity, then Jesus certainly would have told them so, instead of telling them, are my good works causing you to stone me?

If his "good works/miracles/signs were not their real motive, then Jesus even out of his wisdom),failed to figure it out why they wanted to stone him.

Do you want to see a Jesus who even failed to realise what his opponents are upto. Even a wise man out of his wisdom will figure it out, let alone a pophet of God who are blessed with wisdom and whose prayers were HEARD by God when he prayed LOUDLY with tears in his eyes.

So from Jesus’ saying: “I have shown you many good works from my Father.”, two things are very clear:

1. Those works (signs, miracles and wonders were actually done by his Father who is ofcourse Father (metaphirically of everybody) and even Peter testified publically that: “You who are Israelites, hear these words. Jesus the Nazorean was a man commended to you by God with mighty deeds, wonders, and signs, which God worked through him in your midst, as you yourselves know.”

Did Peter say, Jesus was THE MAN? No. He said Jesus was a man.

Jesus just being ‘a man’ yet took the highest risk to convey the Message of God to revive the Laws and Commandents, is his real greatness.

If he was God or Son of God with Divinity, then nothing surprises us because he does not have to worry about any danger posed/inflicted by his own creation (jews). Obviously he was merely a man like us but the only thing is he was approved of God–meaning a prophet of God though without honor in his own land.

You may say “Well by being a prophet/approved of God, he must have known everything that Jews will do to him and since eventually God will save him, he had nothing to fear”. Well, this is not the case. Because:

Jesus’ father was greater than all, because he sent, gave, etc., and Jesus is “a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God” ( John 8:40).
and
Jesus did not do, from his own. So in his own words:
"I cannot of myself do any thing. As I hear, so I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of him that sent me (John 5:30)

Even Jesus’ own glorification is nothing, as he siad "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifieth me, of whom you say that he is your God. (John 8:54)

So you think Jesus is lying or deceiving you by saying all this and those Jews with rocks in their hands are the one who are honest and truthfull in their accusations?

Are you in fact with the enemies of Jesus or with Jesus?

cont…

 

[Analyzer]

**Are you in fact with the enemies of Jesus or with Jesus?

Let’s see what Jews did later. The Jews answered him, “We are not stoning you for a good work but for blasphemy. You, a man, are making yourself God.”

This is the fake charge put up by those trouble making Jews to justify their stoning. It was like ‘by hook or crook’ lets get rid of this man. Do you agree with them? Did Jesus agree with thier blame? No.

Because Jesus was not making himself God. But to refute their charge, he took the help of Law (Torah). Why? Because he was the one who:

1.Did not come to ablish the Law (Torah)
Laws and Commandments as were written/in circulation in his TIME (not of our TIME), were valid and were a key to Eternal Life/Salvation. Even kinship to Jesus is meaningless/nothing except the one who does the Will of God. Will of God is known/followed by Laws and Commandents. Salavation is not cheap.

1. Jews were accusig him of blasphemy on religious ground-Law (Torah).

So naturally it requires same Law to refute it. Why? because their allegation was not right? Why? Because in Biblical language, calling any Jew, a god or son of god does not make him God or Son of God in literal sense. The idiom of that language is not same as Greek/English.

So Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, said, “You are gods”’? Because If it calls them gods to whom the word of God came, and scripture cannot be set aside/broken/rejected, can you say that the one whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world blasphemes because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

See the contrast between what Jews accused him of and what Jesus said to them? Did Jesus say “Yes I am God” or “Equal to God” or even “the Son of God?” No.

What he said is, if all Jews are called gods by God in the Holy Torah, because Word of God came to them (meaning God chose them to deliver His message) and this calling gods to you all is not a blasephemy to you, then why you are accusing me when I am not even calling myself god but merely son of God." (though I am too a Jew and born to a Jewish mother). As, son of god, in Biblcal terms, means a godly person who follows God’s laws and Commandments.

Even your Catholic Bible’s commentators realise and agree with me. So they explain the verse: "You (Jews) are gods/Gods though you be -(Verse 34 of John 10), in the following words:

[ I declare: “Gods though you be”: in John 10:34 Jesus uses the verse to prove that those to whom the word of God is addressed can fittingly be called “gods.”

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_PI2.HTM#$1J2](http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_PI2.HTM#$1J2)**

Do you agree with this Cahtolic Bible commentators’ statement or no? Or are they too are liars (on this issue) and you are not?

cont…

 

[Analyzer]

**Now, were Jews satisfy with Jesus’ referring to their Torah? No. So Jesus went on to say: “If I do not perform my Father’s works, do not believe me; but if I perform them, even if you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may realize (and understand) that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

Here again, an another type of expression"Father in me and and I am in the Father" does not mean Father literally resided in Jesue’ body. It simply means I and Father (God Almighty) have same purpose. And the purpose was to correct the behaviour of Jews of his time, because they despite being Scribes and Pharisees/Jews/Sons of God/gods, were not following the laws and Commmandments which is real and only key to Salvation. but to make you sure that Jesus was indeed an another Son of God (a Prophet) he showed them miracles/wonders/signs.

Had they trusted Jesus’ words, Jesus would not have showed them any Work of God (miracle/sign/wonder). But since they were liars, evil, adultrous, generation/brood of vipers, snakes, faithless and hypocrites and looking for trouble evey now and then, they were asking him to show a sign (miracle from heaven). What did Jesus told them? Did he answer them peacefully " Alright my fellow sweet Jewish brothers…here you go…I am going to show you an another miracle right now. I am glad you ask me such an easy thing…my dearest sweet sons of god, as I am God Almighty came down to Earth"???

No. On the contrary he said: “An evil and adulterous generation seeketh a sign: and a sign shall not be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.” …and on an another occasions he said"“You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce good fruit as evidence of your repentance.”
"Why? Because they were liars and did not really wanted to believe in his honesty nor following the Torah. Asking for a miracle by such evil liars, was to just to givie him trouble. Because their actual fear was not his claims. Their actual fear was: through his miracles. honesty, simplicity and insistance on following the Laws and Commandents, all people of their time/around them may accept the Sovereignty of God Almighty, instead of Roman’s Pagan rule, under which those bunch of Jews were enjoying their sub-power.

But Law of God and Roman’s Pagan Law cannot go together, as it is impossible to follow two different laws at the same time. One was the God’s law and the other a man-made law. So those Jews had to become hypocrites in order to remain a Jew (a godly person outwardedly-lip service Jews) yet be faithfull to Romans/Roman rules to save their necks from Roman persection. At that time Romans were super-power. So their fear is somehow exposed in their sayings when Jesus’ disciples said to him: “Rabbi, the Jews were just trying to stone you, and you want to go back there ( in Judea)?” He wanted to go there because his friend, “Lazarus ( brother of Martha and Mary) was died.” When Jesus arrived, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went to meet him; but Mary sat at home. and Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” But what did Jesus say to her? Did he say “Don’t worry, I am God and will bring him to life”? No. He said: (But) even now I know that whatever you ask of God, God will give you." Because God is God and Jesus is not God. Whatever Jesus did was with the finger of God. Meaning, with God’s permission/blessing/Mercy, as all those powers/miraculous things were given by God to not jsut Jesus but every other Prophet of God. Why? because not every one used to believe in plain words of Prophets. Some with all honesty and some (hypocrites) just for giving trouble,.wanted to test and verify Prophets of God whether they are infact sent/appointed by God or not…
But in case of Marth’s brother, it was an honest request to seek help from Jesus. So unlike what Jesus said to those Jews “as evil and adultrous generation…” he said to Martha: “Your brother will rise.” Then Martha said to him, “I know he will rise, in the resurrection on the last day.” She also said: “Yes, Lord. I have come to believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one who is coming into the world.” When she had said this, she went and called her sister Mary secretly, saying, “The teacher is here and is asking for you.” She did not say ’ God is here or Son of God is here…don’t worry"
When Mary came to where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said to him, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” When Jesus saw her weeping and the Jews who had come with her weeping, he became perturbed and deeply troubled, and said, “Where have you laid him?” They said to him, “Sir, come and see.” And Jesus wept. ( Just imagine God weeping, if Jesus was God)

And eventually, Jesus raised Lazaus eyes and said, “Father, I thank you for hearing me”
Why he said this? because he must have been praying to God Almighty about it…and his prayers were heard. Just like how “In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence” and he even fell to the ground and prayed" to overcome the serious situation once he was in.

Please make a note that as per NAB- Catholic Bible’s note: "[T]he word “father (abba) seems not to have been used in earlier or contemporaneous Jewish sources to address God without some qualifier.”

cont…
**

 

[dolphinlove]

Analyzer,
Why do you have to use such bold and big letters?
Please keep it simple or the threads just become much bigger and more spread out, its easier to keep things simple…

 

[Analyzer]

**Finally when, the dead man (Lasarus) came out, tied hand and foot with burial bands. His his face was wrapped in a cloth. So Jesus said to them, “Untie him and let him go.” Now many of the Jews who had come to Mary and seen what Jesus had done began to believe in him. But some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done. So the chief priests and the Pharisees convened the Sanhedrin and said, “What are we going to do? This man is performing many signs. If we leave him alone, all will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our land and our nation.” But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing, nor do you consider that it is better for you that one man should die instead of the people, so that the whole nation may not perish.” So from that day on they planned to kill him. This was their real fear to kill him.

After they put him on Cross, they thought they killed him. To justify his seeming death, they come up with a new theory that “if there is no resurrection of the dead, then neither has Christ been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then empty (too) is our preaching; empty, too, your faith. Then we are also false witnesses to God, because we testified against God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised.For if the dead are not raised, neither has Christ been raised, and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain; you are still in your sins.”

See!! how devilishly Romans and those Jews who used to stone Jesus are rescued from their wrong doing ( of trying to kill an innocent man-Jesus)?

Remember Paul was a Roman “citizen” and when he had been stretched out for the whips, Paul said to the centurion on duty, "Is it lawful for you to scourge a man who is a Roman citizen and has not been tried?"And he also said to them, “They have beaten us publicly, even though we are Roman citizens and have not been tried, and have thrown us into prison. And now, are they going to release us secretly? By no means. Let them come themselves and lead us out.” When the centurion heard this, he went to the cohort commander and reported it, saying, “What are you going to do? This man is a Roman citizen.” Then the commander came and said to him, “Tell me, are you a Roman citizen?” “Yes,” he answered. The commander replied, “I acquired this citizenship for a large sum of money.” Paul said, “But I was born one.” At once those who were going to interrogate him backed away from him, and the commander became alarmed when he realized that he was a Roman citizen and that he had had him bound.

I wonder why Paul despite being born a Roman had to buy his citizenship for a LARGE SUM OF MONEY? And this Paul’s Roman citizenship granted him special privileges in regard to criminal process. Roman law forbade under severe penalty the beating of Roman citizens.**

Note: All Biblical quotes in this and above 4 posts of mine are taken from New American Bible:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_INDEX.HTM

 

[Isa_Almisry]

**Thanks angelos, Jesus never said that he was the begotten son of God and youhave failed to show anything. **

Did you look?
Isa Almisry;4224533:

The verse in question, from critical editions:

I think several verses on theis have been posted for you before, so I’ll just limit it to this:

The rest is all made up or drived from your mind. “I and father are one” can have many meanings. Similarly, " I go to my father" is irrelevant. You could not show anything about the most serious of your beliefs that Jesus is a begotten son of God. I am surprised. You had nothing.

I’m not surprised someone evidently can’t, or won’t, read.

When Jesus never said that then why did you make it up? I am most interested in the words of Jesus himself if he ever said that he was the begotten son of God.

Look at the links above.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Analyzer,
Why do you have to use such bold and big letters?
Please keep it simple or the threads just become much bigger and more spread out, its easier to keep things simple…

He knows that we can easily pull apart his “argument,” so he has to resort to putting obstacles in the way.

I might bother with it, if I have time later, Lord willing. Right now the rehash isnt’ worth my time.

 

[dolphinlove]

He knows that we can easily pull apart his “argument,” so he has to resort to putting obstacles in the way.

I might bother with it, if I have time later, Lord willing. Right now the rehash isnt’ worth my time.

yeah i know what you mean, the cutting pasting of drivel is getting quite old around here…

 

[ralphinal]

You know nothing, nor do you consider that it is better for you that one man should die instead of the people, so that the whole nation may not perish."

And the High Priest prophesied that Jesus would die so that all may live!

Thank you for reminding us of more proof that Jesus HAD to die on the Cross!!

Halelujah!

Thanks be to God for giving us life through Jesus’s suffering, death, and Ressurection!

 

[Angelos]

I am so surprised at your understanding that you consider the enemies of Jesus truthfull but not Jesus. Perhaps you do this either unkowingly or you are forced to do, in order to make an argument which is baseless.

The assumption that I consider Jesus’ enemies truthful because they accuse Him of blasphemy is a stupid lie born of your wishful and dishonest thinking. Is slandering members of other faiths a typical Islamic trait?

Without pre-conceived ideas, if you read the whole context of John 10:30 (starting from verse 23, there you will see how Jesus easily refuted their allegation and make your argument baseless and meaningless.

Did Jesus really ascribed the holy name of God to Himself and said that God and He were ONE (in literal sense)? No.

Jesus’ words make your argument baseless and meaningless. He does not make any concessions, but insists that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. Sorry, I do not need you to pervert Jesus’ statement when what He means is clear in those verses.

Because after him saying “My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand.”, it makes no sense at all to claim in the same breath “The Father and I are one.” in literal sense, as the Father is greater than all, meaning greater than even Jesus, as the Father is, the Father and distinct being than Jesus. (Funny thing is in your so-called Trinitarian formula, the Father is always the first “person”. Why? Why he canot be second or third? )

In what sense is Jesus ONE with the Father then? What is your alternative? Nothing!

You forget about honesty when you deliberately ignore the following verses:

John 10:27-30
My sheep hear my voice. And I know them: and they follow me. And I give them life everlasting: and they shall not perish for ever. And no man shall pluck them out of my hand. That which my Father hath given me is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father. I and the Father are one.

Jesus and the Father are equal because no one can snatch the sheep out of Jesus’ hands as well as out of the hands of the Father.

I shall reply to your absurd question with a similar absurd question: Why does your Allah always exist? Why cannot He stop existing from time to time?

If I take your supposition true that “Jesus ascribed the holy name of God to Himself and said that God and He were ONE.”
​

, then you actually are a heretic according to your own dogma/belief.

Why is that? According to what tenet am I considered heretic? On whose behalf are you talking now? Are you a priest or bishop of the Arian heresy?

Furthermore, Jesus’ ascribing the name of God to Himself will make him husband of his own mother-Mary. Because Mary is called “Mother of God”. And if Jesus is ascribing the name of God to himself, then he is actually replaced the place of the Father, as such Jesus is Mary’s husband as well… And this is incestuous.!!
​

I had thought that only mentally sick people could reach ridiculous conclusions, but it is high time I added some Muslims into that group.

Did you see how horrible is your claim/understanding/belief? Why it is leading to this incestuous climex? Because the very base of your belief/dogma is not right. If your view/claim is not right, then Jesus is not a liar. If Jesus is not a liar then your a liar. You both cannot be right yet have totally opposite views/claims/undertstandings.
​

Nope. The only thing I can see is that how your failure to understand Christian tenets leads you right to the center of absurdities. LOL

So Jesus DID NOT ascribe the holy name of God to Himself nor said that God and He were ONE in lieteral sense
​

.

Jesus disagrees with you and insists that He and the Father are ONE in the Gospel. I believe Jesus, of course, not a bunch of liars

​

​

 

[Angelos]

**
I wonder **why Paul despite being born a Roman had to buy his citizenship for a LARGE SUM OF MONEY? And this Paul’s Roman citizenship granted him special privileges in regard to criminal process. Roman law forbade under severe penalty the beating of Roman citizens.

I wonder why you always evade our questions and resort to dishonesty.

I wonder why you always hijack threads.

I wonder why you still have not answered Ralphinal’s questions.

I wonder why Muslims hate Paul so much although the Koran knows nothing about him and the current Islamic allegations (lies) concerning his mission.

I wonder why the Koran teaches that Jesus’ apostles became triumphant against the evil ones (Surah 61:14).

I wonder why some people return here with new nicks no matter how many times they are banned for being naughty.

 

[Analyzer]

**

And the High Priest prophesied that Jesus would die so that all may live!

Thank you for reminding us of more proof that Jesus HAD to die on the Cross!!

Halelujah!

Thanks be to God for giving us life through Jesus’s suffering, death, and Ressurection!

But remember who appointed that man as the High Priest of that year? Appointed by God? By Jesus?

Who is able to prophecy truly? A prophet appointed by God or appointed by poeple like those Jews who were with rocks in their hands to stone Jesus due to false charges from their own?

Then you forgot one more serious issue, here. Perhaps you may have ignored or overlooked it.

If that High Priest was right in his prophecy then Jesus too must have known it more than him, as in your mind, he was God or the Son of God. Even if you agree with Peter, and accept Jesus as a man-approved of God and whatever miracles he did was actually done by God through him–as God has done before through his previous Prophets…then as a man anpporved of God…as a prophet, Jesus should know he was going to die, no?

I think that he might have known that people will try to kill him, because these kind of Jews used to kill their own prophets. But this time, Jesus had to die in order to save their necks not from hell but from the Roman authorities.

But to you, Paul and your church, Jesus had to die to save you from your “sins”, otherwise your faith is vain-meaningless.

If I assume that Jesus must die to save his nation and even gentiles from their sins, then he shoud willingly and wholeheartedly die before even Romans/Jews try to kill him. No??

But wait…as per your Bible, Jesus used to hide and run away or escape from them. This is not a behaviour of someone who is destined willfully to die.

Here, what Jesus did when puppet High Priest said that “it is better for you that one man should die instead of the people, so that the whole nation may not perish” with the hands of Romans? This saying of High Priest seems his intention not his prophecy, as he was not a prophet of God nor he prophecised it. The following words are not of High Priest:

“He did not say this on his own, but since he was high priest for that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,…”

Then what happened? Did Jesus stay there bravely to face a death which was going to save his followers and gentiles? No. After he learned "that from that day on they planned to kill him, he “no longer walked about in public among the Jews, but he left for the region near the desert, to a town called Ephraim, and there he remained with his disciples.” As per NAB: “Ephraim is usually located about twelve miles northeast of Jerusalem, where the mountains descend into the Jordan valley”. He did not even come back on the upcoming feast. So when:

“…the Passover of the Jews was near, and many went up from the country to Jerusalem before Passover to purify themselves. They looked for Jesus and said to one another as they were in the temple area, “What do you think? That he [Jesus] will not come to the feast?”
For the chief priests and the Pharisees had given orders that if anyone knew where he was, he should inform them, so that they might arrest him.”

Why Chief Priests and the Pharisees gave orders to arrest him? Because they were with the Romans. They were puppets of Romans. Very Simple.

Again people like you love to agree with the enemies of Jesus when Jesus is tried his best to save himself from death, because his mission was not to die but to live and demand people to repent and follow the Law of God for Eternal Life, as he said:

“Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven.I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven”

Did he say: “O you evil, adultrous, generation/brood of vipers, snakes, faithless and hypocrites and all fellow Jews, I came here to die for you, you don’t have to spit on my face or kick me. Please do whatever you are doing as usual and be happy with Roman pagans because soon I will die on cross even if you did not kill me or when you will accuse and crucify me on false charges and then after I die, all you have to believe, that I did die/commit suicide willingly for you…and thats all.you are saved from hell-fire for allowing sinners to spit on my face and kick me. And remember after me Paul - a Roman citizen (whose name now is Sual) who is now actually persecuting my followers, will come up with a new theory in my name after changing his name from Saul to Paul …just follow him and forget what I said about essentialty of Law in you life for Eternal Life?”
Had he said this somethng to this efect, people still would have try to kill him instead to Jesus Barabbas-a notorious criminal?

But unfortunately you are with the enemies of Jesus. And if I go by your concocted dogmas, then Jesus was a liar. But if was not a liar then you are a liar for attributing such meaningless fabricated tneory from your own to him. Jesus is free from what you are spreading in his name. What Jesus taught and what your attributing to him from your own are TWO DIFFERENT things.

So on the contrary, …
cont…
​

**[/INDENT]

 

[Analyzer]

**

So on the contrary, Jesus was praying to God even with LOUD CRIES and TEARS in his eyes, why? Because there was no such evil plan to die for “sins”:

“In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, 5 and he was heard because of his reverence.” —Hebrews 5:7

‘He was heard’, means his prayers were accepted by God and saved him from death. So he was not supposed to die on Cross nor Jesus wanted to die for you. Very simple.
Did Jesus came to abolish the Law or the Prophets? No. Read what Ezekiel -the Book of a prophet says:

You ask: “Why is not the son charged with the guilt of his father?” Because the son has done what is right and just, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live.

Only the one who sins shall die. The son shall not be charged with the guilt of his father, nor shall the father be charged with the guilt of his son. The virtuous man’s virtue shall be his own, as the wicked man’s wickedness shall be his own.

But if the wicked man turns away from all the sins he committed, if he keeps all my statutes and does what is right and just, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

None of the crimes he committed shall be remembered against him; he shall live because of the virtue he has practiced.

Do I indeed derive any pleasure from the death of the wicked? says the Lord GOD. Do I not rather rejoice when he turns from his evil way that he may live?

And if the virtuous man turns from the path of virtue to do evil, the same kind of abominable things that the wicked man does, can he do this and still live? None of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered, because he has broken faith and committed sin; because of this, he shall die.

You say, “The LORD’S way is not fair!” Hear now, house of Israel: Is it my way that is unfair, or rather, are not your ways unfair?

When a virtuous man turns away from virtue to commit iniquity, and dies, it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die.

But if a wicked man, turning from the wickedness he has committed, does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life;

since he has turned away from all the sins which he committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

And yet the house of Israel says, “The LORD’S way is not fair!” Is it my way that is not fair, house of Israel, or rather, is it not that your ways are not fair?

Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways, says the Lord GOD. Turn and be converted from all your crimes, that they may be no cause of guilt for you.

Cast away from you all the crimes you have committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, O house of Israel?

For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies, says the Lord GOD. Return and live! --Ezekiel 18​

**

Note: All Biblical quotes here are taken from the New American Bible:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PRQ.HTM

 

[Isa_Almisry]

**

But remember who appointed that man as the High Priest of that year? Appointed by God? By Jesus?**
Sorry for getting rid of the puke green (or was it meant to be Islamic green) font. It’s annoying.

I have a spare moment, so I’m actually going to wade through this, though I make no promises for “cont…”

Since God set up the rules for the choosing of the High Priest, and Christ is God, you have your answer.

Who is able to prophecy truly? A prophet appointed by God or appointed by poeple like those Jews who were with rocks in their hands to stone Jesus due to false charges from their own?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

[Again people like you love to agree with the enemies of Jesus when Jesus is tried his best to save himself from death, because his mission was not to die but to live

John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 “He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal. 26 “If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him. 27 “Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28 “Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, “An angel has spoken to Him.” 30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes. 31 “Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” 33 But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die. 34 The crowd then answered Him, “We have heard out of the Law that the Christ is to remain forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?” 35 So Jesus said to them, “For a little while longer the Light is among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes. 36 “While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.”

and demand people to repent and follow the Law of God for Eternal Life, as he said:

"Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven.I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven

"

Did he say: “O you evil, adultrous, generation/brood of vipers, snakes, faithless and hypocrites and all fellow Jews, I came here to die for you, you don’t have to spit on my face or kick me. Please do whatever you are doing as usual and be happy with Roman pagans because soon I will die on cross even if you did not kill me or when you will accuse and crucify me on false charges and then after I die, all you have to believe, that I did die/commit suicide willingly for you…and thats all.you are saved from hell-fire for allowing sinners to spit on my face and kick me. And remember after me Paul - a Roman citizen (whose name now is Sual) who is now actually persecuting my followers, will come up with a new theory in my name after changing his name from Saul to Paul …just follow him and forget what I said about essentialty of Law in you life for Eternal Life?”
Had he said this somethng to this efect, people still would have try to kill him instead to Jesus Barabbas-a notorious criminal?
Consult His words above.

But unfortunately you are with the enemies of Jesus. And if I go by your concocted dogmas, then Jesus was a liar. But if was not a liar then you are a liar for attributing such meaningless fabricated tneory from your own to him. Jesus is free from what you are spreading in his name. What Jesus taught and what your attributing to him from your own are TWO DIFFERENT things.

So on the contrary, …
cont…

On the contrary your continous siding with the enemies of Christ’s Gospel, concocting lies to save your dogma…Christ is free from what you are spreading against His name.
[/quote]

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Oh, and btw, still no answer to the OP.

 

[Psalter]

Oh, and btw, still no answer to the OP.

Yes, we are not 17 pages long and STILL no answer…

 

[planten]

Analyzer,
Why do you have to use such bold and big letters?
Please keep it simple or the threads just become much bigger and more spread out, its easier to keep things simple…

But I find it easy to read in bold and better font. So I wish Analyser continue using good font and size. thanks.

 

[planten]

I wonder why you always evade our questions and resort to dishonesty.

I wonder why you always hijack threads.

I wonder why you still have not answered Ralphinal’s questions.

I wonder why Muslims hate Paul so much although the Koran knows nothing about him and the current Islamic allegations (lies) concerning his mission.

I wonder why the Koran teaches that Jesus’ apostles became triumphant against the evil ones (Surah 61:14).

I wonder why some people return here with new nicks no matter how many times they are banned for being naughty.

**paul is no where in the Quran because he was not any apostle of Jesus. He was a staunch enemy of Jesus. He killed many followers of Jesus.He never spent a day with Jesus. he never knew the teachings of Jesus.He reversed all the good wotks of Jesus, even called the law of Moses as a curse. What could be worse?

Quran does not mention him and the four gospels (The real ones) also do not mention paul.**

 

[Angelos]

So on the contrary, Jesus was praying to God even with LOUD CRIES and TEARS in his eyes, why? Because there was no such evil plan to die for “sins”:

“In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, 5 and he was heard because of his reverence.” —Hebrews 5:7

‘He was heard’, means his prayers were accepted by God and saved him from death. So he was not supposed to die on Cross nor Jesus wanted to die for you. Very simple.

Although I do not have much time to respond to your multiple absurdities presented by your multiple nicks, I make every effort to write a few things here only to debunk your silly allegations, which is equal to revealing your lies. LOL This is about to be my hobby

My dear Christian brethren,

Here again we encounter a lying Muslim who somehow forgets (Alzheimers maybe?) or ignores the following verses taken from the opening verses of the Epistle to the Hebrews (the same source and text):

Hebrews 1:1-3
God, who, at sundry times and in divers manners, spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, last of all, In these days, hath spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the world. Who being the brightness of his glory and the figure of his substance and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high.

Now time to check the context of the 5th chapter of the same Epistle, some verses of which the Muslim poster cites to support his weird theory that Jesus was not crucified:

Hebrews 5:1-10

For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in the things that appertain to God, that he may offer up gifts and sacrifices for sins: Who can have compassion on them that are ignorant and that err: because he himself also is compassed with infirmity. And therefore he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. Neither doth any man take the honour to himself, but he that is called by God, as Aaron was. So Christ also did not glorify himself, that he might be made a high priest: but he that said unto him: Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place: Thou art a priest for ever, according to the order of Melchisedech. Who in the days of his flesh, with a strong cry and tears, **offering up prayers and supplications **to him that was able to save him from death, was heard for his reverence. And whereas indeed he was the Son of God, he learned obedience by the things which he suffered. And being consummated, he became, to all that obey him, the cause of eternal salvation: Called by God a high priest, according to the order of Melchisedech.

The Word of God makes it clear that whatever this Muslim writes is a lie!

Anathema on the liars!