S
Sharp101
Guest
LOL, He was dead yet walking? LOL
- Status
M
mattkubes
Guest
I see a pattern. A Muslim (most like MarySee again) offers some half-truth that they read on a pro-Islam website. We thoroughly disprove it, the Muslim ignores that, and moves on to the next “revelation” that their quasi-scholars discover. In our own scriptures. That we’ve had for 2000 years. That they plagiarised.
I would respond, but I fear I would be able to have a more engaging discussion with the wall behind me.
M
mattkubes
Guest
Again, Islam’s simplistic theology at work. To be dead spiritually is to be truly dead. Adam and Eve were created immortal, both physically and spiritually. They lost both of those, just as God said they would.
S
Sharp101
Guest
In which Book of the Bible it is said?
How long, how many years/centuries, they had to wait for your Lord Jesus to return? During the waiting period, were they still dead in the most serious way? Those who came and gone before your Lord Jesus was born and “died” for your sins, are saved or not? If they are not saved, what was their crime when your Lord Jesus was not yet born?
M
mattkubes
Guest
It is said countless times throughout the Bible
This just proves to me that you aren’t finding these things on your own. Where are you getting them MarySee?They waited until Jesus came back and rose from the dead, so just around 2000 years ago…
Well, since our ultimate destiny is to spend eternity with God, yes.
What is the point of this question? Some of them would be in heaven, others wouldn’t be. Do you know anything about the Jewish sacrificial system? Anything about being righteous in the OT?
What a silly post that was.
S
Sharp101
Guest
Are you sure, to be dead spiritually is to be truly dead?
If Adam and Eve were truly dead, then how did they return to life? How did they conquer their death? They need your Lord Jesus’ crucifixion, to give them life back, no? But wait, Jesus was not yet born to die for them. So they were okay without your God’s death?
According to you, as per Genesis if the death, does not mean physical death but spiritual death (and since you are aslo talking something about your Lord Jesus in the same breath), then the “death” of your God-Jesus, on the “Cross”, also was merely a ‘spiritual death’. If not then, nothing can stop me to conclude that God of the Bible did lied to Adam. Because you cannot have both ways.
If God of the Bible did lie to Adam, then “resurection” of your God can be accepted as being raised after he being dead in merely physical mode.
While responding to this supposition, please keep in mind the following verses:
2 Chronicles Chapter 18
19 And the LORD said: who shall entice (deceive) Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one spoke saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
20 And there came forth the spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said: I will entice (deceive) him. And the LORD said unto him: Wherewith?
21 And he said:** I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He said: Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also; go forth, and do so. 22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets;** and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.’
mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et25b18.htm ]
But if, God of the Bible did not lie and I have to buy your interpretation, then the “resurrection” of your God-Jesus, makes no sense at all. Now, where is your Salvation without your God (Jesus’) resurection?
Again, you cannot have both ways.
M
mattkubes
Guest
Yes.
MarySee, you make no sense. We know that Jesus died for all so that many would be saved. So the point you just made is clearly wrong…Adam and Eve needed Jesus as well. They waited after death for His coming, just as countless others had to. Heaven was not open to us until Jesus redeemed us by His death on the cross. And besides, even if it had to happen another way, God is not limited by time.
You’re confused - since Jesus is God, He can’t be separated from God. True human death, which should have been obvious from my post, is separation from God (or spiritual death). Jesus’ perfect sacrifice on the cross restored us to life with Him.
But He didn’t, so your argument fails miserably
Those verses make it quite clear that it was an evil spirit who committed the lie. These spirits lie to all who reject the Truth, which is how we would explain the invention of Islam and all others who refuse to accept Christ as their Lord, God and Saviour. Nice try, but like I said before, you will not win using our scriptures. That’s because they are the Holy inerrant Words of God
S
Sharp101
Guest
LOL…
Since Jesus is God so Jesus cannot be seperated from God? What are you talking, Sir?
Who said God can be seperatred from God, in the first place?
M
mattkubes
Guest
Haha way to dodge the rest of my post. Listen MarySee, stop coming here trying to convert people to your religion. It won’t work - we see it for what it is. We also see Jesus for who He is. He is our Lord and Savior. The God of you and I. Ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into all Truth - He will lead you to Jesus, the Word made flesh.
If all you came here to do was convince people to convert to Islam, I can guarantee you that it will not work. These are the Catholic Answers Forums, but you’re not asking questions; you’re simply arguing and posting rubbish that you find on the internet. Please stop
This thread is about Islam’s view on the virgin birth of God. Try to stick to that topic.
S
Sharp101
Guest
Committed to lie due to whose instructions? Did you really read the whole passage? Read atleast this part again.
It was clearly God of the Bible who said: "Thou shalt entice (deceive) him, and shalt prevail also; go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets; and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.’ (2 Chronicles Chapter 18:21-22)
mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et25b18.htm
It is clear that God of the Bible, was behind all this deceving/lying stuff.
M
mattkubes
Guest
MarySee, if you’d like an answer to this question (and I assure you there is one), please post it in the “Sacred Scripture” forum. You’re hijacking far too many threads with non-sense that is consistently proven to be wrong.
So again, please post your scripture questions here.
P
Psalter
Guest
Hi MarySee!!
If Adam & Eve had not disobeyed God by eating of the forbidden fruit, they would have lived forever. But as a result of their disobedience, they grew old and died, as do all of their descendants (us). Adam & Eve DID die spiritually on the day they ate of the forbidden fruit, because they lost the sanctifying grace–the sharing in the life of God–they had been filled with before the Fall, and were thereafter spiritually dead. By the way, when the Bible says “on the day you eat of the fruit, you will die”, I think its just a way of saying, “When you eat of the fruit, you will die”–it doesn’t actually mean they will die a physical death that very day. Adam and Eve DID die as a result of eating the fruit. So, MarySee, the Bible is truthful (as always!) and Islam is still a false and demon-led religion and the Quran is bogus. :yup:
A
Americanrevert
Guest
Hello,
Amazing how one gets off track of the topic lol.
Islam describes the birth of Jesus beautifully in the Quran. You should get an English translation (I prefer the Noble Quran) and read for yourselves. Muslims do not have to convince you of what you do not find out for yourselves. You have brains. Go and read what it says. We can compare the differences then. Instead of saying what you don’t know or “don’t think” is right, we would then have something to discuss after you have read what it says…(I actually have posted somewhere under some headin lol the verses that talk about Jesus and Mary…in very eloquent terms and in English!.
Why always trying to prove what you don’t know or hypothetical wise?
americanrevert
Amazing how one gets off track of the topic lol.
Islam describes the birth of Jesus beautifully in the Quran. You should get an English translation (I prefer the Noble Quran) and read for yourselves. Muslims do not have to convince you of what you do not find out for yourselves. You have brains. Go and read what it says. We can compare the differences then. Instead of saying what you don’t know or “don’t think” is right, we would then have something to discuss after you have read what it says…(I actually have posted somewhere under some headin lol the verses that talk about Jesus and Mary…in very eloquent terms and in English!.
Why always trying to prove what you don’t know or hypothetical wise?
americanrevert
D
dzheremi
Guest
Ugh…I can’t believe I just read through five pages of discussion and didn’t find a single answer to the OP’s question! Actually,no, I can believe it, because this thread is about Islam and apparently very few Muslims here are willing to answer questions about their religion in a straightforward way (or in many cases at all).
Please tell us all, Muslim posters, how you would finish this sentence:
“The reason for and significance of the virgin birth of Jesus within Islam is…”
I am really wanting to know!
Please tell us all, Muslim posters, how you would finish this sentence:
“The reason for and significance of the virgin birth of Jesus within Islam is…”
I am really wanting to know!
P
Psalter
Guest
It’s bad enough that you can barely write a coherent sentence, and now you’re copying-and-pasting your own posts!? :banghead:
The LAST time you posted this, most all of us agreed that the Bible’s telling of the birth of Our Lord is superior to the Quran’s. I have two translations of the Mahometan Book (sometimes confused with the Sacred Scriptures) here and I have read its garbled account of Jesus’ birth, and the Bible’s account is still more beautiful and superior in every way. I don’t know what made you think that would change since 3 days ago.
Face it, AmericanRevert: the Quran is GARBAGE. :yup:
P
Psalter
Guest
Because Allah felt like it. The god presented in the Quran is a schizophrenic megalomaniac and does random, arbitrary things just because it suits his fancy. He does not act rationally.
I’m so glad the one true God isn’t like the one Mahomet created in his Quranic hallucinations.
P
Psalter
Guest
Don’t hold your breath…
A
Angelos
Guest
Marysee, rational, counsel, your Koran says Mohammad’s God is free to change his mind and deceive people because he is almighty! LOL
M
mattkubes
Guest
And didn’t Muhammad himself say that it was OK, in at least one instance in the Quran, to lie to “unbelievers”? If he was handing God’s word on to the world…well that puts MarySee in quite a pickle.
A
Angelos
Guest
In Genesis dear irrational:
Genesis 2:15-17
And the Lord God took man, and put him into the paradise of pleasure, to dress it, and to keep it. And he commanded him, saying: Of every tree of paradise thou shalt eat: But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat. For in what day soever thou shalt eat of it, thou shalt die the death.
Genesis 3.19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return.
Adam died on the day he ate of the fruit because he lost the supernatural gift of immortality. His body was condemned to mortality.
Our irrational Muslim poster does not believe in the immortality of human soul. Besides, his confusion about history stems from the mistaken presumptions of the Islamic scripture.
- Status