Islam and the Virgin Birth of Jesus

[mattkubes]

Since Islam is based on half-truths and twisted versions of facts, can we even expect a straight answer? I haven’t seen a single lucid post by MarySee/Planten/Whoever else in all of these threads - not one evidence of higher reasoning or even primary logic. It’s sad really.

 

[ralphinal]

Since Islam is based on half-truths and twisted versions of facts, can we even expect a straight answer? I haven’t seen a single lucid post by MarySee/Planten/Whoever else in all of these threads - not one evidence of higher reasoning or even primary logic. It’s sad really.

I know. And some of them are a threat to us. How sad we are

 

[Psalter]

I know. And some of them are a threat to us. How sad we are

Wow, this thread is now TEN pages long and we STILL have not heard an answer!!

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Biblical saying “it is impossible for God to lie”, clearly contradicts it’s own another verse where Jesus is reported to have said:"…With men it is impossible; but not with God: for all things are possible with God." (Mark 10:27)

If ‘all’ means indeed ‘all’ then it includes 'lying, cheating, doing monkey tricks, …infinite things…

This is an another serious issue with the contents of the Bible.

I don’t think the Bible is the one with “issues.”

 

[Sharp101]

Who was Jesus’s father in Islam and what traits did he inherit from him?

First of all in Islam there is no “the father and his begotton son” business.

So for Muslims, it is a non issue as to who was/is the father of Jesus. Yes his birth was miraculous. When we say miraculous does not mean something really really special. Because even our own birth is miraculous. Simply because people are born every now and then does not mean this law of God is not a miracle or less than a miracle.

It is well said by someone: *“He Who created the mosquito’s eye also created the Sun” *

You think the creation of Sun is less miraculous than the birth of Jesus? Allah does whatever He wills. Unusual things may happen. Like TWINS or mulitiple babies with common body parts are born…These are all creation/miracles of God.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Are you sure, to be dead spiritually is to be truly dead?

If Adam and Eve were truly dead, then how did they return to life? How did they conquer their death? They need your Lord Jesus’ crucifixion, to give them life back, no? But wait, Jesus was not yet born to die for them. So they were okay without your God’s death?

According to you, as per Genesis if the death, does not mean physical death but spiritual death (and since you are aslo talking something about your Lord Jesus in the same breath), then the “death” of your God-Jesus, on the “Cross”, also was merely a ‘spiritual death’. If not then, nothing can stop me to conclude that God of the Bible did lied to Adam. Because you cannot have both ways.

If God of the Bible did lie to Adam, then “resurection” of your God can be accepted as being raised after he being dead in merely physical mode.

While responding to this supposition, please keep in mind the following verses:

2 Chronicles Chapter 18
19 And the LORD said: who shall entice (deceive) Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one spoke saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
20 And there came forth the spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said: I will entice (deceive) him. And the LORD said unto him: Wherewith?
21 And he said:** I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He said: Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also; go forth, and do so. 22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit** in the mouth of these thy prophets; and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.’

mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et25b18.htm ]

But if, God of the Bible did not lie and I have to buy your interpretation, then the “resurrection” of your God-Jesus, makes no sense at all. Now, where is your Salvation without your God (Jesus’) resurection?

Again, you cannot have both ways.​

I’d get into an explanation with you on it, but I’m not going to with someone who puts “N/A” for, say, religion on his/her public profile.

I’ll just summarize that Adam’s physical death happened after his spiritual death, just as our sprititual rebirth precedes our physical rebirth at the Resurrection (but then, I don’t know if you believe in the Resurrection, or for that matter, God).

 

[Isa_Almisry]

MarySee, if you’d like an answer to this question (and I assure you there is one), please post it in the “Sacred Scripture” forum. You’re hijacking far too many threads with non-sense that is consistently proven to be wrong.

So again, please post your scripture questions here.

It seems Mary CAN’T see.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Hello,

Amazing how one gets off track of the topic lol.

Islam describes the birth of Jesus beautifully in the Quran. You should get an English translation (I prefer the Noble Quran) and read for yourselves. Muslims do not have to convince you of what you do not find out for yourselves. You have brains. Go and read what it says. We can compare the differences then. Instead of saying what you don’t know or “don’t think” is right, we would then have something to discuss after you have read what it says…(I actually have posted somewhere under some headin lol the verses that talk about Jesus and Mary…in very eloquent terms and in English!.

Why always trying to prove what you don’t know or hypothetical wise?

Some of us here have read it in Arabic, and have no need of the English translation. wrong again, convert.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

It’s bad enough that you can barely write a coherent sentence, and now you’re copying-and-pasting your own posts!? :banghead:

naskh

The LAST time you posted this, most all of us agreed that the Bible’s telling of the birth of Our Lord is superior to the Quran’s. I have two translations of the Mahometan Book (sometimes confused with the Sacred Scriptures) here and I have read its garbled account of Jesus’ birth, and the Bible’s account is still more beautiful and superior in every way. I don’t know what made you think that would change since 3 days ago.

naskh

Face it, AmericanRevert: the Quran is GARBAGE. :yup:

naskh
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(exegesis
:tsk:

Marysee, rational, counsel, your Koran says Mohammad’s God is free to change his mind and deceive people because he is almighty! LOL

naskh

And didn’t Muhammad himself say that it was OK, in at least one instance in the Quran, to lie to “unbelievers”? If he was handing God’s word on to the world…well that puts MarySee in quite a pickle.

naskh

 

[mattkubes]

So for Muslims, it is a non issue as to who was/is the father of Jesus. Yes his birth was miraculous. When we say miraculous does not mean something really really special. Because even our own birth is miraculous.

There is something fundamentally different between a normal birth and birth from a virgin. I imagine my 4-year old cousin could even reason that out.

Don’t be such a politician (although I pray to God that you aren’t one).

 

[Isa_Almisry]

**The Topic is Islam and the virgin birth of Jesus. In Islam there is news of the birth of a son for Mary. The news the angel gave to Mary was for a youngman (Ghulam) who has the age of more than 16 years. A son who would grow to some good age and will preach and will be made a messenger for the children of Israel (Jews). That is exactly what happened… There is not a word about any virgin birth in the Quran.

It is same in the bible NT too where the physical line (geneology) of Jesus is described via king david and upto Joseph the carpenter. Joseph was the legal husband of Mary, the mother of Jesus. If Joseph has nothing to do about the birth of Jesus then Jesus cannot hail from King David.**

Planten, we have already dealt with this.

I’ll let your fellow Muslims argue with you on this one.

Ditto

Yes.

Borrowed from the Protoevangelium of James and Church Tradition.



“Full of Grace?”

“Mother of My Lord?”

“Blessed among Women?”

We’ve already dealt with this. Do keep up.

Look above.

Look above.

She wants you to meet her Son first.

Jesus said “Behold your mother.”

Because it is still true.

As the Foster Father, Jesus legal genealogy is through Joseph.

Since you prophet abolished the foster relationship among you because he coveted (and took) his foster son’s wife, I understand why you don’t understand that.

Why couldn’t anyone marry one of Muhammad’s wives? They weren’t really their mothers, as the Quran calls them.

The real materially spiritual Son and the real spiritually material Son. one in Essence, consubstantial. The Church’s proclamation is quite clear.

God the Father is the Father (hence the term) of God the Son.

Yes, she was Mother of her Creator.

God did such things.

Do keep up.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Why are we answering his questions, anyway? This thread is now seven pages long and Planten and his co-Mohametans still have not answered the question this thread was created for!

But isn’t that there answer.LOL. Qui tacit consentit so I guess qui obfuscatit admitit.

 

[Sharp101]

By the way, what you just posted was absolute garbage. Jesus is NOT Jesus’s father.

From Trinitarian pointview, Jesus is indeed Jesus’ father, as The Father of Jesus is same to you (as Christians often love to quote “I and my Father are one” to prove their Jesus is actually God by ignoring " ye (Jews) are gods").

My seven year old has a better understanding of the Trinity. Naturally, it is because he was never taught Muhammed’s lies or how to lie to cover them up.

And a seven year old Jewish boy of Choosen people of God will reject your Trinity as soon as his father teach him the strict monotheism of Judaism. (I am not sure, in addition what other things he learns besides this, ragarding Jesus, from non-Torah tradiions.)

This proves what?

It is all brainwashing/programming. If you were born in a Hindu family, today you (most likely) would have been worshipping idols and defending your belief in Trimurty instead of Trinity. LOL… By the way, Trimurty idea is also kind of Trinity idea, but it makes “more sense” as opposed to your Trinity idea, though both are wrong, as they are concocted by people without realising it’s horrible illogical consequences.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Well I, for one, will never pay my jizyah

I think they say in the Bronx “I got ya jizya right HERE!”

 

[Isa_Almisry]

** I am sorry. When you say that Father is a God, when you say Jesus is a God, when you say holy spirit is a god too, then what can I say? With all those gods, I have to say that you believe Jesus as a god.**

Your Quran says “In the Name of Allah, of the Beneficent, of the Merciful.”

With all those Gods, I have to say that you believe Allah is a God.

And we haven’t spoken of the 99 names!

 

[morning_star777]

No one can born without father?

Yet Adam and Eve were born without father.

Very poor logic.God created Adam and Eve as the 1st man and woman so they had no father.but remember,they had no mother also.But lord Jesus had a mother when he Incarnated.And God is his Father…

 

[Isa_Almisry]

**You will have to explain Trinity which you can never do. I have seen written in the forum, some christian admitted that Trinity cannot be explained. So my question will stand. Why a god is praying? That means there was another God to whom he was praying. **

I’ll point out to sincere posters that the Man Christ prayed to God the Father, because the God Christ perfected the Man Christ because He is One God-Man, Son of Man and God the Son.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

** I personally do not believe that Jesus was born of a virgin (unless virgin is understood differently). It is not written as such explicitly in the Quran and Hadith. The Quran and Hadith do not say that Jesus had no father.

So Quran does not say Jesus was born of a virgin. So my business ends there and I need not answer anything further. You may define a virgin please.

As I understand, a lady is a virgin if she has not seen any man before meeting her husband. If that is the case then she is a virgin for all her life even after mating with husband and bearing children. But what do you say about the virgin?
**

So was Mary lying in the Quran, when she said she was not unchaste, had not been touched by a man and yet ended up pregmant?

You have to do more than look to get pregnant, but I’ll let your mother explain that to you.

 

[Americanrevert]

by Isa

I’ll point out to sincere posters that the Man Christ prayed to God the Father, because the God Christ perfected the Man Christ because He is One God-Man, Son of Man and God the Son.

Sincere posters they may be…but are you really sincere in actually saying that Jesus the Man Christ whom yall take as 1/3 God, prayed to the other 1/3 God the Father because He perfected 1/3 of Himself…so that would make him the imperfect 2/3’s God…so what happened to the last 1/3? How can you have perfection when you leave out what you claim as one whole? The Holy Spirit is what?
God-man…amazing…why do yall think mankind is worthy of breaking up God into parts? ***He’s always been ONE SUPREME BEING…who Created man, not the opposite.

---

americanrevert

 

[Isa_Almisry]

This post is not just a TYPICAL but very FUNNY. I don’t know whether this poster, who wrote/bleleive that his **“God died”, **have any real clue to what he/she is really talking about.

Anyway, let me take his first point now. Later (if I don’t get banned) I will try to answer all.

( Note: Please note, how Catholics/non-Catholic Christians on this forum are posting very bad, offensive and harsh words about Islam and it’s Prophet, but they don’t get banned. It seems it is KOSHER for them.

It’s HALAL to quote Muslim sources. That Muhammad doesn’t look so good afterwards is not our problem.

But Muslim posters cannot even quote specific verses of the Holy Bible. If they do, they get banned right away.)

Planten and american convert have been here for quite a while.

If you are not an Aryan, then what is the big deal. Still you are a gentile, if you are not a Jew. If your ancesters were once Jews and you are not, but a Christian, and not circumcised, then your soul got cut off from God’s people, as per your Bible.

You seem a gentile. You follow that Jew who in your mind was God who once born and died too.

Your forgot the rose part.

And that your Jewish God was once a baby Jew…who got circumcised when he was 8 days old, by an another Jewish man.

Do you know in those days ( 2000 years ago), how mohellim (circumcisers) used to carry out circumcision on Jewish male babies/men? There are cases, in which the circumcisers ( mohelim ) take penis in their mouth right after cutting foreskin to stop bleeding.

And should they let the bleeding go on. Btw, a tube is used now.

I’ll refrain from going into what I know of Muslim circumcision practices.

If your God was born not to destroy the Law and also to fulfill it with an additional hardship to it, and he too went through circumscion when he was just 8 days old, (perhaps in order not his soul to get cut off from his jewish people) then he most certainly was in favor of circumcision atleast for all those people who first harken to his message and ofcourse they all were Jews. Unless he had double standard.

But we see Paul ( who not only a Jew but a Phsarisee) how he circumcised a grown Greek man’s penis, yet he was preaching almost against it.

That man came out of a Jewish mother. So according to the Law, it was a Jewish penis.

What circumcison has to do with man, anyway? Is it something beneficial or it is just to appease God? Why God of Israel wanted Jews’ foreskins to be cut off? He did not even spare His own so-called “Only Son’s” foreskin. Was that foreskin too Divine, that is not my question here, nor I am aware of what happened to it and whee it is gone, because we are talking about your God’s foreskin and not any Tom, **** and Harrys’s.

Is this where the “Sharp” comes from?

There must be something good in this circumcison, which Paul surprisingly did not want you to have it.

Explained above.

Not explained: why does Islam require circumcision?