Islam and the Virgin Birth of Jesus

[Angelos]

**Please see the verses of bible below:

Mathew 13
53When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. 54Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. 55"Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56Aren’t all his sisters with us?** Where then did this man get all these things?" 57And they took offense at him.

Have some more here:

Mark 6
1Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.
“Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles! 3Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph,[a] Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

The above verses are telling those people, James Judas and Simon were the children of Mary. James is well known to be the brother of Jesus.

He is being referred to as Mary’s son. But christians have made him into the son of God. He sure is the son of a woman, i.e. Mary. That is why Quran addresses him as Ibne Maryam= the son of Mary. It is proved by the words of the bible. There is a special reason for calling Jesus as the son of Mary.

You are not being honest by distorting the statements in the Gospels. The people at Jesus’ time thought that Joseph was Jesus’ biological father!

None of the Gospels confirm the supposition that Mary was the biological mother of so many children! According to the narrative in Luke’s Gospel (chapter 2), Jesus was the ONLY child when Joseph and Mary went to Jerusalem on the occasion of a feast with Jesus, who was 12 at that time!!! How will you interpret this verse? Why would Mary have waited 12 years to have so many kids after Jesus? This is an illogical supposition.

 

[planten]

In order to do retaliate Christian disbelief, you must get rid of the accounts in the Koran adopted from some apocryphal Gospels.

I am not disbelieving anything of the Quran. I am only disbelieving that any angel visited Joseph the carpenter. Also any angel could visit any one as mentioned in the bible, will all be wrong. No angel can visit Joseph and no angel can visit Elizabeth.

 

[planten]

You are not being honest by distorting the statements in the Gospels. The people at Jesus’ time thought that Joseph was Jesus’ biological father!

**You are repeating the above again and again. So I believe those people were right in knowing and seeing what they saw. That Joseph was the father of Jesus. That was a fact of history. That remained a fact for long time until some 100 years later some one (John only) discovered a new formula that word became flesh. Mathew and Mark and Luke did not know about it.

And the idea of holy ghost making Mary pregnant was known to Joseph the carpentar only, but he never told any one all his life. What strange ideas you people have got?**

None of the Gospels confirm the supposition that Mary was the biological mother of so many children! According to the narrative in Luke’s Gospel (chapter 2), Jesus was the ONLY child when Joseph and Mary went to Jerusalem on the occasion of a feast with Jesus, who was 12 at that time!!! How will you interpret this verse? Why would Mary have waited 12 years to have so many kids after Jesus? This is an illogical supposition.

But the verses that I have presented are from the gospels. They confirm that Mary had other children. The names of the children are also given. How could any one deny that? I cannot understand, unless there is a serious contradiction in the bible NT.

 

[planten]

**Please be specific. Describe your problem one by one only, what problem you are having about my statements. They are all based on the words of the Quran or the bible.

But you people give different meanings to plain sentences of the bible and we cannot agree with them. Please point out any one statement that is disturbing you. God willing, I will consider it**.

 

[planten]

Continued…

Perhaps you were disturbed by my statement that I did not believe in any angel visiting Joseph. That is perfectly right and justified with me because the christians do not believe that any angel visited Muhammad. So how could any angel visit Joseph the carpentar? It is not mentioned in Quran that angel visited Joseph.

 

[planten]

** Surely, I will call the christian majority country as a christian country. Otherwise what are the large number of christians doing there?

My beliefs are perfectly in order. You please bring up your problem that disturbs you. Thanks.**

 

[dzheremi]

There are no Christian countries in the West as there are “Islamic” countries in the Muslim world. This is what Planten and some other Muslims cannot reconcile with their distorted, black-and-white view of the world. But many (not all) Christians do understand this very well.

I invite you all, Muslim or Christian or other, to watch this video of a young Iraqi Christian priest, Hanni Essa, who talks of the situation in his country and his view of the West and its “religion”:

“It is incorrect to think of the West as Christians”

I am certainly not happy to agree with him, but I must be honest and say that I do. But there’s nothing to stop individuals in the West from being Christians in the way that he is envisioning it. For my part, I try to be one in every second of every day. It is just that our countries don’t respect it at all. It is the price of living under secular governments, I guess. Have Santa Claus, but keep Jesus out of everything but presidential campaigns (where he’ll show up to vote for John McCain or Barack Obama, depending on which one of those two men you believe in), and maybe Nativity scenes that you erect on your own property, if you don’t mind being bothered by people who will complain about having to live in a world full of things that they don’t believe in…tell me about it, brothers and sisters!

 

[planten]

** Thank you. I will also blame it on the persons and not on Islam. I wll say that our fellow muslims are ignorant and no more living according to Islam. Same as the christians. That is true. The Muslims have inroads of bad beliefs in the system. Had they been right , would they be punished so severely?

It is the bad work of a few hundred years that the Muslims have lost all touch with real Islam. islam is spiritual. It is not political. But the present day Muslim leaders are all politicians. (more later**)

 

[Angelos]

I am not disbelieving anything of the Quran. I am only disbelieving that any angel visited Joseph the carpenter. Also any angel could visit any one as mentioned in the bible, will all be wrong. No angel can visit Joseph and no angel can visit Elizabeth.

Your current disbelief is totally irrelevant to my post and to the topic of this thread.

 

[Angelos]

You are repeating the above again and again. So I believe those people were right in knowing and seeing what they saw. That Joseph was the father of Jesus. That was a fact of history. That remained a fact for long time until some 100 years later some one (John only) discovered a new formula that word became flesh. Mathew and Mark and Luke did not know about it.

No matter how often I repeat the facts, you ignore them and prefer hijacking this thread as a result of your wish to evade our questions.

I am not a Muslim to accept the silly comments of a member of Ahmadiyya about Jesus and Joseph. I am a Christian, and shall keep believing what the Evangelists tell me: Joseph became Jesus’ foster father!

I am sick of your lies too. Matthew and Luke talk of Jesus’ miraculous conception, which confirms the notion of incarnation stated in John!

**
And the idea of holy ghost making Mary pregnant was known to Joseph the carpentar only, but he never told any one all his life. What strange ideas you people have got?**

We are no Muslims following the heretical Ahmadiyya! This is why we cannot have strange ideas.

According to your Koran, did Mary inform people of the angelic apparition and annunciation? NO! Why is that?

**
But the verses that I have presented are from the gospels. They confirm that Mary had other children. The names of the children are also given. How could any one deny that? I cannot understand, unless there is a serious contradiction in the bible NT.**

You are still lying! The Gospels present what other people suppose about Jesus and His family. They suppose that Jesus is Joseph’s biological son! I can see that you have no ability to distinguish suppositions from facts!

 

[planten]

No matter how often I repeat the facts, you ignore them and prefer hijacking this thread as a result of your wish to evade our questions.

I am not a Muslim to accept the silly comments of a member of Ahmadiyya about Jesus and Joseph. I am a Christian, and shall keep believing what the Evangelists tell me: Joseph became Jesus’ foster father!

I am sick of your lies too. Matthew and Luke talk of Jesus’ miraculous conception, which confirms the notion of incarnation stated in John!

**It is not about Jesus being biological son of Joseph. The problem at hand now is that Mary had other children after Jesus. That is clearly written and shown to you. But you are not going to that side. Why? Those children are specially mentioned as those of Mary as has been shown to you in the verses of the bible.

But you people keepon denying that Mary had any other children.

That foster father business is also a lie. You are trying to make Joseph the forster father of Jesus and I do not believe you at all. It is no where in the bible that Joseph was the foster father of Jesus. Is there any reference?**

…

You are still lying! The Gospels present what other people suppose about Jesus and His family. They suppose that Jesus is Joseph’s biological son! I can see that you have no ability to distinguish suppositions from facts!

You and your supposed religion ! The people were not blind. They knew Joseph to be the real father of Jesus. You are trying to deny that too. You are saying, Joseph was the forster father of Jesus. it is you who is wrong. Not those people who knew Jesus only as a prophet of God.

 

[Angelos]

**It is not about Jesus being biological son of Joseph. The problem at hand now is that Mary had other children after Jesus. That is clearly written and shown to you. But you are not going to that side. Why? Those children are specially mentioned as those of Mary as has been shown to you in the verses of the bible.

But you people keepon denying that Mary had any other children.**

The Gospels never say that Mary had other children beside Jesus. You somehow deny this fact because it blocks the way to your silly and heretical allegations.

What about your scripture? Does it agree with those Jews of Jesus’ time that Mary had other children beside Jesus? Why or why not?

**
That foster father business is also a lie. You are trying to make Joseph the forster father of Jesus and I do not believe you at all. It is no where in the bible that Joseph was the foster father of Jesus. Is there any reference?

…**

You are being possessed by a demon or what? I can see that there is smoke coming out of your head.

**
You and your supposed religion ! The people were not blind. They knew Joseph to be the real father of Jesus. You are trying to deny that too. You are saying, Joseph was the forster father of Jesus. it is you who is wrong. Not those people who knew Jesus only as a prophet of God.**

Those people knew that Joseph was Jesus’ real father, but Mohammad’s almighty and all-knowing Allah was unaware of that knowledge and kept repeating the Christian tenet that Jesus had no biological father.

 

[planten]

The Gospels never say that Mary had other children beside Jesus. You somehow deny this fact because it blocks the way to your silly and heretical allegations.

What about your scripture? Does it agree with those Jews of Jesus’ time that Mary had other children beside Jesus? Why or why not?

You are being possessed by a demon or what? I can see that there is smoke coming out of your head.

Those people knew that Joseph was Jesus’ real father, but Mohammad’s almighty and all-knowing Allah was unaware of that knowledge and kept repeating the Christian tenet that Jesus had no biological father.

**I have shown you from the bible NT clear words stating the names of the children of Mary. But you are denying it. It means you do not believe in the bible. Already you had disowned the bible as anything belonging to Jesus.

Now you have admitted that people knew Joseph to be the biologcal father of Jesus. So were they wrong? Joseph kept the real news hidden from the people? But he must have told somebody otherwise how could that information of holy pregnancy land into the bible? Whom did Joseph tell? There is nothing about that in bible.

Just a running commentary is there that an angel visited Joseph and told him not to go near Mary as she is already pregnant. Who told that? I do not believe that any angel could come near Jospeh the carpentar. Why should angel visit Joseph?

You have denied everything. So I do not believe you.

Otherwise I believe in miraculous birth of Jesus and the virginity of Mary. But you will never understand that.
**

 

[Angelos]

I have shown you from the bible NT clear words stating the names of the children of Mary. But you are denying it. It means you do not believe in the bible. Already you had disowned the bible as anything belonging to Jesus.

The only thing you have shown me from the New Testament is the clear supposition of some people about Jesus’ family. Those people uttered those statements to despise Jesus!

**
Now you have admitted that people knew Joseph to be the biologcal father of Jesus. So were they wrong? Joseph kept the real news hidden from the people? But he must have told somebody otherwise how could that information of holy pregnancy land into the bible? Whom did Joseph tell? There is nothing about that in bible.**

Joseph did not have to share that angelic apparition and annunciation with the other people. I do not read anything in the New Testament that says the angel commanded Joseph to reveal or preach Jesus’ miraculous story to Israel.

Besides, you still have not answered my question why Mary in the Koran never informs other people of the angelic annunciation.

**
Just a running commentary is there that an angel visited Joseph and told him not to go near Mary as she is already pregnant. Who told that? I do not believe that any angel could come near Jospeh the carpentar. Why should angel visit Joseph?**

You are free to disbelieve and follow your presumptions. No one is forcing you to believe that an angel appeared to Joseph in a dream and guided him.

**
You have denied everything. So I do not believe you.

Otherwise I believe in miraculous birth of Jesus and the virginity of Mary. But you will never understand that.
**

I hope the reason for your disbelief is not my denial of the Koran. Woe to the one whose faith is dependent on the reaction of other people.

 

[inJESUS]

After a long weekend still no answer…

 

[Angelos]

After a long weekend still no answer…

Welcome back :hug1:

 

[cathopologist]

After a long weekend still no answer…

Perhaps the Muslims have conveniently forgotten to reply to your question. They have a common habit when it comes to answering tough, straight-forward questions brought forth by Christians.

 

[planten]

Perhaps the Muslims have conveniently forgotten to reply to your question. They have a common habit when it comes to answering tough, straight-forward questions brought forth by Christians.

You have not defined the virginity of Mary yet. What does it mean? And how does the ghost make a lady pregnant without breaking the seal of virginity?

 

[ralphinal]

You have not defined the virginity of Mary yet. What does it mean? And how does the ghost make a lady pregnant without breaking the seal of virginity?

I will try this again.

Mary was a virgin. She had never had sex with a man before Jesus was born. She never saw a naked man. SHe never touched a man’s reproductive organs. No man touched her reproductive organs.

Is that part clear?

The Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit (same Person) IS GOD. She was found to be a virgin (see above) and with child by the POWER OF GOD. They did not have sex. God said it and it was so. GOd has the power to do this.

 

[cathopologist]

You have not defined the virginity of Mary yet. What does it mean? And how does the ghost make a lady pregnant without breaking the seal of virginity?

Many have already answered your question. You simply refuse to take the answer at face value because that is not what you wish to read. On the other hand, you and your mates have simply skipped questions raised by several people of this forum.