Islam & Christianity, which religion is more logical?

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All are always welcome to share and comment. If the muslim wish to give their perspective they are welcomed. If a Christian wanted full Islamic perspective maybe they could search out an Islam forum.

But you and muslims wish to come and ask on a Catholic forum and we are more than willing and happy to discuss.
I agree. The OP does have some questions that many non-Catholics and non-Christians would have trouble understanding (I say “non-Catholics” and “non-Christians” since some of her questions, such as the one about a priest, is strictly for Catholics and not all Christians), so they aren’t bad questions. But putting it in the context of “Which is more logical?” suggests that it’s not about the OP trying to engage in understanding and discerning the truth, but more so trying to suggest something about Christianity.
 
Which religion is more logical?

God
Islam: God is One.
Christianity: god is one in three?
God told us He’s a trinity through His own revelation.

God the Father - 1 Corinthians 8:6 NIV
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
God the Son - John 10:30 NIV "
I and the Father are one."
God the Holy Spirit - John 14:26 NIV
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
God is not constrained by human logic for another thing. We’re in no position to tell Him what He can and can’t do. If He tells us He is Trinitarian through His own Revelation, then He’s Trinitarian whether we like it or understand it or not.

Secondly as a human being, you’re made in God’s image, and you’re Trinitarian - body, mind and soul. When your body dies, you will live on in the form of spirit and mind, but you will no longer be fully human until you are given a new body.

Since you’re Trinitarian made in the image of God, in the human trinity of body, mind and soul, with each part working seamlessly side by side, and yet defining a single being, then you have no excuse for believing God cannot be Trinitarian.

The human family is also Trinitarian - father, mother, child. Another hint of God’s own Trinitarian nature, rooted in love.

Here’s a few examples of trinity in nature, which indicate God might be giving us a bit of a hint about His own Trinitarian nature. Note that I am not equating God with nature - that’s Pantheism, and pagan. But if a Trinitarian God were going to create a universe, it would stand to reason that He would at least drop a few clues about His own super-nature in His own creation.

trinity.la/trinityinnature.htm

We believe in One God, Three Persons. Get that straight - it is not three Gods.

Do we understand it? Of course not. This is almighty God we’re talking about.
 
Which religion is more logical?

God
Islam: God is One.
Christianity: god is one in three?

Jesus
I: The Prophet of God and his Word. He said to him be and he was.
C: god? son of god?

Mary
I: The mother of Jesus. A virgin who gave birth to Jesus by the miracle of God without being touched by any man.
The best woman of all nations.
C: Mother of god?

Creation
I: God is the creator and He created Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the universe, and He is the only one to be worshiped.
C: Is Jesus a creator or a creation?

Quran
I: The word of God revealed to his final messenger Mohammed through Angel Gabriel.
The unchanged book.
A book with no author except God.
C: A false book?
The author is Muhammed?

Bible
I: A revelation sent to Prophet Jesus as the Torah was revealed to Prophet Moses.
Muslims believe in all the revelations of God but follow the Quran only as God preserves it from change and corruption.
C: Was the Bible not changed?

Perfection
I: God is perfect who does not need to eat or sleep or any human needs.
God does not die.
C: god eats and sleeps and dies too?

Forgiveness
I: No one can forgive sins but God.
We seek forgiveness from God directly.
No mediation between a man and God.
C: god forgives sins after confessing to a priest?
Isn’t priest a man who can sin too?

Images and idols
I: It is forbidden to make images and idols of God and his Prophets.
C: Images and idols of god are allowed?
The logical one is the one that don’t have the author of the holy book abrogating over 50% of his own writings, supposedly unchangeable in heaven. One count put it at 71 out of 114 chapters abrogated, 62%. Imagine the credibility of the author when it come to the end of the book he said to ignore the earlier parts as the later parts were “better”. Either someone in the heavens is doing a poor job of narrating the story from the perfect book or the listener is not listening very well. Either way, that doesn’t sound very encouraging, isn’t it? I just can’t imagine the perfect original copy in heaven with so many cross-outs. Can you?
 
Many of you are trying to explain the trinity, and some of you admit that it is difficult to understand, but the Bible states that “God is not the author of confusion”.

The trinity is confusing even for Christians! Do you think God wants us to be confused about his nature!

All the Prophets of God were sent to guide people to the One true God. That what Abraham, Moses, Noah, and Muhammed did.

This is what Jesus did too. I don’t think that there is a verse in the Bible where Jesus said clearly “I am god, worship me”, is there?

I know that Jesus said “God is greater than I”

For Muslims, this is not confusing:
(Quran 112)
[1] Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
[2] Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
[3] He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
[4] And there is none like unto Him.
 
Many of you are trying to explain the trinity, and some of you admit that it is difficult to understand, but the Bible states that “God is not the author of confusion”.
We are confused as to why God would send Muḥammad… when one only needs Jesus to go to Heaven.🤷
 
I hope Amoon or another muslim will answer this:

We both believe Jesus is alive, we both believe Jesus is the one to come back on the last day for judgement, we both believe Jesus’s mother Mary was a virgin / stayed a virgin / and even ascended into Heaven.

If Jesus is still alive and His earthly mother is still alive; why would God have such a “special” favor for them?

Why is it Jesus that comes back on the last day and not muhammad?

Muhammad is dead, he never cured the sick, never had power to forgive sins, never alter or multiplied matter (water into wine, feeding over thousands etc.) but yet muslims believe muhammad is the excellent example for humans to live; why? (didn’t the angels come to Abraham, Moses, and other prophets)

Islam says Jesus is the word of God and the Spirit of God…Is the Word of God not God? How can the Word of God not be God or the Spirit of God not God?
Miracles were given to Jesus as well as many other Prophets, that don’t make any of them god!

The fact that Muslims believe that Jesus will come back to fight the anti-christ proves that Muhammed is a real Prophet who recieved his revelations and knowledge from God.

Jesus being the Word of God doesn’t make him god!

(Quran 3:59) Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, “Be,” and he was.
 
The fact that Muslims believe that Jesus will come back to fight the anti-christ proves that Muhammed is a real Prophet who recieved his revelations and knowledge from God.
Just as a matter of interest, as a mere spectator, obviously, but how does the fact that Muslims believe something prove that Mohammed was a real Prophet etc? I would have thought that the fact that Muslims believe something means that it’s proof that Muslims believe something but not a lot else.
 
Just as a matter of interest, as a mere spectator, obviously, but how does the fact that Muslims believe something prove that Mohammed was a real Prophet etc? I would have thought that the fact that Muslims believe something means that it’s proof that Muslims believe something but not a lot else.
Pretty much.
 
(Quran 3:59) Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, “Be,” and he was.
Adam created from dust and Jesus born of a woman is the same? :hmmm:

Also how does saying “Be” when it is using earthly dust mean the same thing?

MJ
 
Miracles were given to Jesus as well as many other Prophets, that don’t make any of them god!

The fact that Muslims believe that Jesus will come back to fight the anti-christ proves that Muhammed is a real Prophet who recieved his revelations and knowledge from God.

Jesus being the Word of God doesn’t make him god!

(Quran 3:59) Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, “Be,” and he was.
You came back 😃 I’m glad!

Thank you for answering me I really appreciate the dialog.

Addressing the Trinity you said on your second post that it’s confusing and even Christians can’t explain it.

God says:
Isaiah 55:8 - “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.

We as Human Beings can’t truly in full essence comprehend God in His supreme nature, but as it is revealed to us in the scriptures even before Jesus birth in this world that God as Messiah would be with us. Aside from Messiah prophecies God talks about being a Father to a (a as in one specific) Son.

2 Samuel 7:12-14 - When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me

You wrote that the belief of Jesus coming back was proof that muhammed is a real prophet. No that’s not true because Jesus already revealed this to his disciples and so it was already known….EVEN if someone wasn’t a Christian or EVEN a Jew one could have the revelation made known.

Jesus is God. Jesus stated this himself. And YES the word of GOD IS GOD.

John 1:1-5 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Or Old Testament:
Isaiah 55:11 - So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.

When God says “from My mouth” it is from apart of God not a creation of God.
 
I capitalized Human Beings because:

Human Beings = 2 persons (man & woman)
God = 3 persons (Father, Son & Holy Spirit)
 
Many of you are trying to explain the trinity, and some of you admit that it is difficult to understand, but the Bible states that “God is not the author of confusion”.

The trinity is confusing even for Christians! Do you think God wants us to be confused about his nature!

All the Prophets of God were sent to guide people to the One true God. That what Abraham, Moses, Noah, and Muhammed did.

This is what Jesus did too. I don’t think that there is a verse in the Bible where Jesus said clearly “I am god, worship me”, is there?

I know that Jesus said “God is greater than I”

For Muslims, this is not confusing:
(Quran 112)
[1] Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
[2] Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
[3] He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
[4] And there is none like unto Him.
So, because God, who is infinite, is difficult for our finite minds to understand, He cannot be three persons in one God?

Isn’t it more likely that your prophet gave up trying to understand the Trinity and insisted upon a simple explanation for the One God?
 
This is what Jesus did too. I don’t think that there is a verse in the Bible where Jesus said clearly “I am god, worship me”, is there?
If there was would you then believe it? And if not, why pose this question?
 
Miracles were given to Jesus as well as many other Prophets, that don’t make any of them god!

The fact that Muslims believe that Jesus will come back to fight the anti-christ proves that Muhammed is a real Prophet who recieved his revelations and knowledge from God.

Jesus being the Word of God doesn’t make him god!

(Quran 3:59) Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, “Be,” and he was.
John was a disciple of Jesus, an Apostle, and eye-witness to all of Jesus’ public ministry. Writing around the year AD 95 (sixty years after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus), John wrote:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1).

and

“The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” (Jn 1:14)

From this, we can see John’s logic in this way:
  1. Jesus is the Word. (Jn 1:14)
  2. The Word was God. (Jn 1:1)
  3. Therefore, Jesus is God.
Now, a question: Do you agree that John believed Jesus was God?
 
Seems to me that this is more of a provocation that a question. The Islam is in detail though not all correct and the Christianity is short, written like a 3 year old, and I get a negative feel from it. My first thing is that anyone who feels that martyring themselves for some 72 virgins has a serious issue since when we pass we do not take a physical form with us or need to be able to have sex. There is your first “plot hole” with Islam. Jihad is another huge plot hole since no one needs to fight for religious space this day and age. The fact Islam does not allow a person to forgive like a traditional Catholic. They call for arms or destruction when the religion is offended especially the prophet Mohammed. It seems that the religion of Islam is also very immature and can not take a stand of peace on it’s own. So logical??? Not by far. It is logical to love and forgive and promote positive growth. To teach others to turn the other cheek if provoked.
 
I would argue that logic detached from history is not a reasonable grounds for judging religion. I would argue that Christianity is the more reasonable religion, and that Islam is unreasonable given the problems in Islamic history.

God
Christianity: God is love, and much of God’s actions may be understood through reason.
Islam: God is pure will and power, unbound by love or reason. God is totally unbound by reason or love. Here are verses in the Quran that speak to this issue:
  • The Jews say: Allah’s hand is fettered. Their hands are fettered and they are accursed for saying so.” (5:64)
  • He cannot be questioned concerning what He does.” (Qur’an 21:23)
Islamic movements that embraced reason as a means of understanding God’s actions in the universe (e.g., Mu‘tazilites) were suppressed and now widely viewed as anathema. The great Muslim mystic al-Ghazali condemned science, then understood through Aristotelian philosophy, as placing constraints on the free will of God.

Historicity
Christianity: There is a continuous chain of textual support for orthodox Catholic teaching, beginning with the pre-Pauline text of 1 Corinthians 15:3b-7 (which nearly all modern textual critics agree as being datable to 1-3 years after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus) and other citations to earlier Christian works in Paul’s letters (e.g., Romans 1:3-4, Philippians 2:6-11), continuing through the Gospels (Injeels), the epistle of James, the book of Hebrews, the Pastoral Epistles, Revelation, and the Catholic letters. That takes the New Testament canon from the mid-late 30s AD to around 100-125 AD. In addition, the extra-canonical text, the Didache, documents early Christian practice (which was NOT Islam) and is dated by critical scholars to as early as 40 AD. In 111 or 112 AD, the Roman governor Pliny the Younger sent a letter documenting orthodox Christian liturgical practice to the Emperor Trajan – very much in keeping with much earlier Gospels, 1 Corinthians 11, and Didache. The letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch (who was probably present for the confrontation between Peter and Paul in Galatians 2) and St. Polycarp of Smyrna, both of whom were documented independently to be students of the Apostle John, provide extremely early 2nd century AD documentation of Christian practice that is entirely consonant with the Gospels, Paul’s letters, and the Didache.
Islam: The 6 major books of hadith accepted as orthodox by Sunni Muslims cannot be objectively dated to before the early 8th century, following the reign of the Caliph Abd Al-Malik (references: Juynboll, Schacht). The conception of the Hijaz as polytheistic before Muhammad has been largely set aside by the understanding that the Arabian peninsula’s non-Abrahamic traditions were largely henotheistic with one god, Allah, being at its center. Archaeological discovery of Bedouin graffiti has shown that salat probably originated from prostration to shines throughout the Arabian peninsula, including the Ka’ba. Ablutions before prayer with water or earth was proscribed in the Babylonian Talmud, likely providing a syncretic influence on salat. The first Qibla pointed to Jerusalem, again illustrating syncretism. The qiblas of the oldest mosques in existence didn’t point to Mecca, and didn’t until after the reign of Abd Al-Malik. Within the Quran, most references to the followers of Muhammad are to “believers,” and Arabs following Muhammad did not refer to themselves as “Muslims” until around the Second Fitna (Civil War). The Quran’s geography describing the settlement of Bakkah does not match the geogrpaphy of Mecca in any way. The majority of stories of Jesus and the figures of the Old Testament occur in the identical sequence as Biblical and Rabbinical texts in which they first appear, suggesting the Quran used them as (probably oral) source material (e.g., Sura 5:112-115 // John 6:34-53 – why does Islam need a Eucharist?). The Quran cites stories of Jesus that originated in extracanonical gospels, folk tales, which did not exist in the 1st century AD (e.g., the Syrian Infancy Gospel on Jesus blowing life into earthen birds).
 
Quran
Christianity: The Quran is a human-authored book. All the early mushafs vary in their content and language, even those dated scientifically to 100+ years AH. Given the changes in written Arabic language (e.g., introduction of diacritical points after the Quran’s canonization), all interpretation of the earliest manuscripts of the Quran is ambiguous and subject to anachronism. All of the New and Old Testament stories and folk tales cited in it were from the region conquered by Rashidun caliphs (e.g., Marib Dam, Seven Sleepers of Ephesus), and none of its statements about Jesus or earlier figures or any predictions about other regions have been independently attested by archaeology or historical research.
Islam: The Quran is an unchanging book revealed to Muhammad by God. Although that has not been the universal teaching of Muslims throughout time.

Mary
Christianity: A virgin who gave birth to Jesus by the miracle of God without being touched by any man. Theotokos (God-bearer or “Mother of God”), defined by the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD. Named “full of grace” by the angel Gabriel.
Islam: A virgin who gave birth to Jesus by the miracle of God without being touched by any man. A holy woman and a Muslim. The term “theotokos” caused the dyophysite Church of the East, which was highly prevalent in the Sassanian empire and whose priests were high officials therein and who were later foundational to the establishment of Baghdad, to condemn Chalcedonian and miaphysite Christianity in language extremely similar to that found in the Quran. Muhammad’s first wife Khadija’s first cousin, Waraqa ibn Nawfal, was remembered (anachronistically) in Muslim tradition as being an “Ebionite” Christian. In fact, Waraqa could have been a dyophysite who taught Muhammad many of the condemnations of Chalcedonian and miaphysite Christianity that appear in a redacted form in the Quran as condemning Christianity generally.

Forgiveness
Christianity: Jesus died to pay the debt of sin. We can turn our backs on God, losing sanctifying grace through which we attain salvation. Jesus instructed the apostles, who ordained priests, that “Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” (John 20:23).
Islam: “When Judgment Day arrives at the end of the world, the angels who have served as Kiramin Katibin throughout history will present to Allah all of the records they’ve kept on people during their earthly lifetimes, Muslims believe. Then Allah will decide the eternal destiny of each person according to what they have done, as recorded by the Kiramin Katibin” (angels.about.com/od/AngelsReligiousTexts/a/Kiraman-Katibin-Muslim-Recording-Angels.htm)
 
John was a disciple of Jesus, an Apostle, and eye-witness to all of Jesus’ public ministry. Writing around the year AD 95 (sixty years after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus), John wrote:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1).

and

“The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” (Jn 1:14)

From this, we can see John’s logic in this way:
  1. Jesus is the Word. (Jn 1:14)
  2. The Word was God. (Jn 1:1)
  3. Therefore, Jesus is God.
Now, a question: Do you agree that John believed Jesus was God?
Even earlier:
…yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom all things are and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and through whom we exist.” (1 Corinthians 8:6)
 
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