Islam is BAD!!!

[d_floyd77]

How do you know that the fruit is good? Where did the fruit come from who is offering the Fruit. Does the Fruit point to Christ?

There are many berries out there that look good but when you eat them they kill you.

Friend, I’m not talking about an ideal. I’m talking about people I’ve experienced, so our topic is not a guessing game.

 

[KenEOTE]

Nothing evil can produce good fruit. Nothing good can produce evil fruit.

Charity, Humility, Love, these things pour forth from a fountain of good. And, as a Catholic, I’m sure you know that that fountain can only come from God right?

Is it true Charity true humility and true love? If it is true it will point to Christ and come from Christ via the Holy Spirit. There are many the world has a type of charity, a type of humilty and a type of Love but it is not from God.

 

[Angelos]

C Z, the verse 4:157 is perfect answer to what happened to Jesus who was put on the cross just for a few hours on Friday. Even Pilate had doubt about Jesus death. Pilate said 'Has he died so quickly?"

Show me from the Koran the narrative of Jesus’ passion please. Where is Pilate in the Koran? Where is Friday in the Koran? Where is the phrase " a few hours" in the Koran? You consider that verse saying nothing about Jesus’ passion a perfect answer to our questions? It is very saddening indeed.

Jesus ha dnot deally died. He had suffered much and fainted. He appeared to be dead. He was as good as dead. The Quran is giving a perfect account of crucifixion. Jesus was seen walking about after three days on his own legs with his own wounds onhis own old body.

Would you please cite reference from that specific Koran text ( which I believe you are the only Muslim to have it)?

Where does your special Koran version say that Jesus walked around three days later? Where does it say that Jesus only fell into a swoon?

The christians use many doubtful words.Then attach doubtful meaning to thos ewords. They say “he had risen” What does it really means? Does it mean that Jesus had died and then became alive? How Come? If we say about some one that he has risen, would it mean that he died and then came back to life? Never like that.

First, your very scripture tries to deny the crucifixion by casting doubt over a historic fact with no good reason. Muslims are doubtful about Jesus’ passion since they are provided with no adequate information.

Jesus is risen simply means He was dead, but alive now. If your theory were true, the Evangelists and apostles would have said “Jesus is awake” rather than “He is risen” It is high time you knew that playing with words and ignoring the context of the NT accounts will give you no solution.

It was a miracle from God for the sake of Jesus that the enemied wante dto kill Jesus on the cross. But God saved him from that cursed death on the cross which was planned by his enemies. The prayer os Jesus in the garden is very clear. he prayed to his God and told all his disciples to pray for him thathe should not have to suffer the ignomious death on the cross. But all the time his friends were found sleeping.

You are resorting to lies again. I am asking you for the 100th time to prove that Jesus asked His disciples to pray FOR HIM. If you cannot cite reference from the NT, I guess you should leave this forum. Lying is a sin in Islam too, which you seem to be unaware of.

But God was not sleeping. It is written in the bible NT that an angel came to Jesus to strenthen him. How the angel will strenghthen him? By telling him that do not worry. You will die on the cross but you will becoem alive after 3 days. Not at all. That is not any strengthening. The matter is mentioned in the Quran (3:55, 3:56) and Allah promised Jesus that he will die a normal natural death (on the bed, i.e. will not die on the cross) and he will be raised near to God (after a natural death)… All is there in the Quran and it is true about Jesus.

The angel strengthened Jesus for His passion.

Jesus’ agony in the Garden is by no means mentioned in the Koran. You are perverting the Koran as well as the NT for the sake of your personal theories.

The church is anxious to kill Jesus on the cross as per the wishes (plans) of the enemies of Jesus. That cannot be right. Please understand that Quranis giving a good report about Jesus and his mother. The report is better than what the church is teaching to the world.

The Koran is anxious to play a funny game of illusion to deceive both Jesus’ enemies and His followers.

You are anxious to make Jesus suffer and be humiliated in His enemies’ hands in vain.

Let the christians teach what they liek. And let the Muslims describe what they have in the Quran and please do not say that Quran is a lie. Otherwie we Muslims will prove that your reports are all lies.

I have already proven that whatever you teach about Jesus’ crucifixion is a lie.

I do not think that you can prove our tenets about Jesus’ passion are lies with the help of the Koran, which says almost nothing about the issue.

 

[inJESUS]

.

Charity, Humility, Love, these things pour forth from a fountain of good.

what about Muhammad saying you will rot in hell ? you accept it because he taught about charity? what about teaching temporary sex/easy divorce/ polygamy? is it ok since he taught about humility?

 

[d_floyd77]

Is it true Charity true humility and true love? If it is true it will point to Christ and come from Christ via the Holy Spirit. There are many the world has a type of charity, a type of humilty and a type of Love but it is not from God.

Nonsense, and I would argue that that goes directly against Church teaching.

 

[KenEOTE]

Nonsense, and I would argue that that goes directly against Church teaching.

I would argue that it doesn’t but then again what is church teaching you yourself said its faith and has nothing to do with the intellect.

 

[d_floyd77]

what about Muhammad saying you will rot in hell ? you accept it because he taught about charity? what about teaching temporary sex/easy divorce/ polygamy? is it ok since he taught about humility?

I accept the actions of the Muslims I have experienced, those I am talking about, as being actions rooted in their belief in the One True God.

 

[KenEOTE]

Never presume it makes a Pres out of U and Me… oh wait it only works with assume.

 

[d_floyd77]

I would argue that it doesn’t but then again what is church teaching you yourself said its faith and has nothing to do with the intellect.

Evil can not produce good, good can not produce evil. If you believe anything other than that you should know that willfully saying otherwise comes close to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

 

[KenEOTE]

Evil can not produce good, good can not produce evil. If you believe anything other than that you should know that willfully saying otherwise comes close to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

I am saying it looks like good but is not good. When the focus is not on Jesus then it is not from God.

Who is getting the praise for the “good” is it the man who does it or is it Christ? He is the only one who deserves honor and praise. Denying Christ truly grieves the Holy Spirit.

My knowledge of Islam comes from men and women whom God has freed from that bondage. They have come to Christ. Some where considered Moderate some Liberal and some very Strict. What they have taught me has opened my eyes to the darkness that Islam holds its captives.

 

[Angelos]

This does not add up. Sorry to say that.

But on a serious note - is war mundane problem, when lives are involved? How can you devise laws regarding killing and taking away human lives, when obviously only God can do that?

Was not Jesus talking about money and material things when he said you give to Ceaser what belongs to him? As a Christian, how could you obey ‘Ceaser’ if he asks you to kill? There is no one word by Jesus (I think) that condoned killing no matter what are the circumstances. You are in a quandary here.

Yes, I admire Christians who are obedient to the authority of the day. But just ponder on the situation above. Would you not be against Jesus’ teaching by taking part in killing (perhaps as a soldier) in order to serve the authority? I thought I sense some pride in Christians here in remembering how Christians gave their heroic lives in Normandy. But is this Christianity? If it is, where does it says so? If it is not, then like I said, you’re in a quandary - the religion is incomplete and impractical.

To follow strict teaching of Christianity is very difficult to live up to. I would say, the only genuine Christians were those matyrs during the pre-Constantine era. Either it is that or Christianity has evolved from what it is truly not.

I would say a true Christian would be at peace with the authority but only up to a point; after that you’d have problerm with it. Unless if you’re not faithful to the teaching of the NT.

I would say a true Muslim would be at peace with the autnority, contrary to what you think, but also only up to a point; after that he would have problem with it - especially if he is made to do things that against his religion.

I have never said that surrendering to the mundane authority no matter what is what Christ teaches in the NT.

People are fallible and can make big mistakes when they are in power. Nevertheless, this does not mean that we should have only theocratic nations or pray that angels govern us.

The Koran claims to be the celestial Law book for the whole mankind, and it does not give one the freedom to reject it.

 

[KenEOTE]

Totally agree. What I find amazing is that most Muslims who read the Bible end up coming to Faith in Christ and see him for who he is… At least that is my experience.

 

[inJESUS]

I accept the actions of the Muslims I have experienced, those I am talking about, as being actions rooted in their belief in the One True God.

but this thread is not about your experience but about Islam. Of course Muslims belief is rooted in what Muhammad put in the mouth of God, that’s why they are called Muslims…but just because Muhammad uttered the word “prophet of God” does not make him so and just because he taught some good stuff does not mean we disregard the immorality he lived and taught or at least the wrong things he taught. The thread is about Islam, not about my Muslim neighbor who will not beat his disobedient wife even if Muhammad gave it as a divine right.

 

[medallionsnijme]

Salaam/peace;
Muslims beleive Jesus (p) did not die & will come back before the last day …what’s so wrong with this belief ? How do u know Christans are right & Muslims are wrong ?
The Women
And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah;
and** they did not kill him nor did they crucify him,** but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
[4.157]

so what, Jesus didn’t die? He has no wounds? what about St.Thomas that was told to put his hand inside the wound in Jesus’ side? does that mean that you believe that he is just hallucinating? what about all the apparitions of Christ who always has His wounds because they are the forever reminder of the price He paid, a reminder of His humility and meekness, His sacrifice…His everything that He came to do?

“they killed him not for sure.”

so according to the qu’ran, He might have died but youre not sure if He did…?

ive always wondered about that in regards to mohammed…if he was “halal” then wouldnt something good have happened to him? like if he actually followed what God said type deal…

i remember reading a story once about how satan once wanted to enter the Kingdom of Heaven by being sneaky, so he decided to pose as light and masqueraded himself as Christ (this is the gyst of the story, so i might be leaving out some parts, but it still gets the point across) so as he was near the Kingdom’s pearly gates, St. Peter was talking to him. at first, St. Peter was almost fooled. then he looked at the hands of this supposed “Christ”. there were no wounds.
the meaning of this story: that satan was too proud to even have thought of having wounds in his great masquerade. Christ is humble and meek, His wounds are His glory. so by denying that it ever happened is thinking that the Son of Man was too proud to let it happen to Him. or maybe another way of thinking of what your qu’ran teaches is ’ why would the Son of God, if He is who He says He is, let that happen to Him? God is so great that He would never let that occur.’ or such proud thinking.

might i also add that the muslims believe that Christ will bring His people to heaven, muhammed brings his people, and whoever else will bring their people into Heaven on the Last Day. if the messages between Christianity and islam are so different and contradictory, then one of them must be wrong, and its not Christianity. if islam is what it claimed it is being a ‘religion of peace’, dont you think that there would be Heavenly “support” like there is in Christianity from all the visionaries who have seen the Blessed Mother, or the ones who have been visited by Christ (with His wounds, especially the Sacred Heart) who have messages of warning if there is not change, of hope and love, peace, and conversion? who give messages that are a means of mercy by giving us a “heads up”. sure, God didn’t have to, but He is merciful and loving and wants to give us every chance to change before its too late.**

 

[KenEOTE]

so what, Jesus didn’t die? He has no wounds? what about St.Thomas that was told to put his hand inside the wound in Jesus’ side? does that mean that you believe that he is just hallucinating? what about all the apparitions of Christ who always has His wounds because they are the forever reminder of the price He paid, a reminder of His humility and meekness, His sacrifice…His everything that He came to do?

“they killed him not for sure.”

so according to the qu’ran, He might have died but youre not sure if He did…?

ive always wondered about that in regards to mohammed…if he was “halal” then wouldnt something good have happened to him? like if he actually followed what God said type deal…

i remember reading a story once about how satan once wanted to enter the Kingdom of Heaven by being sneaky, so he decided to pose as light and masqueraded himself as Christ (this is the gyst of the story, so i might be leaving out some parts, but it still gets the point across) so as he was near the Kingdom’s pearly gates, St. Peter was talking to him. at first, St. Peter was almost fooled. then he looked at the hands of this supposed “Christ”. there were no wounds.
the meaning of this story: that satan was too proud to even have thought of having wounds in his great masquerade. Christ is humble and meek, His wounds are His glory. so by denying that it ever happened is thinking that the Son of Man was too proud to let it happen to Him. or maybe another way of thinking of what your qu’ran teaches is ’ why would the Son of God, if He is who He says He is, let that happen to Him? God is so great that He would never let that occur.’ or such proud thinking.

might i also add that the muslims believe that Christ will bring His people to heaven, muhammed brings his people, and whoever else will bring their people into Heaven on the Last Day. if the messages between Christianity and islam are so different and contradictory, then one of them must be wrong, and its not Christianity. if islam is what it claimed it is being a ‘religion of peace’, dont you think that there would be Heavenly “support” like there is in Christianity from all the visionaries who have seen the Blessed Mother, or the ones who have been visited by Christ (with His wounds, especially the Sacred Heart) who have messages of warning if there is not change, of hope and love, peace, and conversion? who give messages that are a means of mercy by giving us a “heads up”. sure, God didn’t have to, but He is merciful and loving and wants to give us every chance to change before its too late.**

What makes Islam dangerous and false is that it denies the diety of Christ, and it denies his death and resurection. Which are all core to the Christian Faith. If all those did not happen it means Christ is not who he said to be, so even Islam would be false for it holds him as a prophet. A true prophet of God can not teach anything that goes against God. So either Christ is the son of God or he isn’t. If he isn’t then Islam is just as false as Christianity. If Jesus is who he claims then Islam is false. Either way you are left with Islam being false.

 

[hamba2han]

… and just because he taught some good stuff does not mean we disregard the immorality he lived and taught or at least the wrong things he taught. …

There is absolutely no acts of “immorality” that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) commited throughout his life that the other Prophets of God who came before him, like Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus (peace be upon them all), did not also commit throughout their own lives.

Which brings me to the point that I have been constantly alluding to in this thread:

When it comes to judging someone’s behaviour, how exactly do Christians determine what is immoral i.e. evil and what is moral i.e. good?

Do they refer to the Bible… or to what their Church leaders say… or perhaps more likely, are they relying on just their own emotions?

 

[Silouan]

No self-respecting Christian should be saying such a thing because it so very clearly contravenes the Second Commandment.

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, … Exodus 20:4-5

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." … Leviticus 26:1

How do you respond to my post???

THE SECOND COMMANDMENT

The second commandment says, **‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image–any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.’ **

You are muslim, therefore, you should be familiar with the following terminology.

Is the verse from the bible, specific in meaning or **general in meaning??? **

In Islam, some scholars who intrepret the Quran say, the rule is this, all verses are to be taken general in meaning, unless proven otherwise.

If the verse is taken to be general in meaning, that means we cannot make any graven images (3 dimensional) objects of that which is in the heaven or on earth, in Heaven, angels (ie Cherub) and, on Earth, trees, animals. etc etc.

NOT GENERAL IN MEANING

However there is proof, that this verse that this verse is not general in meaning, rather it is specific in meaning.

In Exodux 25:16-20

Moses says to make on the Ark of the Covenant, two graven images of Cherubims. And the Ark of the Covenant is used in the act of worship for the Jews.

The second commandment has a specific meaning. It refers to specific types of graven images.

First you have to look at the history of the Jews and Moses, they came from Egypt. And in Egypt, they practiced a form of Shamanism, in which they worship the spirits of trees, animals and things. False and non-existant gods. They didn’t worship real things, but made-up spirits of this and that.

So the prohibition in the second commandment is against making graven images (3 dimensional) of false and non-existent gods.

Cherubs are real, and they are in heaven.

So I don’t see my Catholic brothers and sisters violating the second commandment.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[KenEOTE]

There is absolutely no acts of “immorality” that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) commited throughout his life that the other Prophets of God who came before him, like Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus (peace be upon them all), did not also commit throughout their own lives.

Which brings me to the point that I have been constantly alluding to in this thread:

When it comes to judging someone’s behaviour, how exactly do Christians determine what is immoral i.e. evil and what is moral i.e. good?

Do they refer to the Bible… or to what their Church leaders say… or perhaps more likely, are they relying on just their own emotions?

What immoral act did Jesus commit?

 

[hamba2han]

What immoral act did Jesus commit?

None… just like all the other Prophets who came before him (peace be upon them all).

 

[KenEOTE]

None… just like all the other Prophets who came before him (peace be upon them all).

So King David Sleeping with another mans wife and then having that man murdered was not immoral?