Islam is BAD!!!

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But unfortunately, that “replay of history” may cause an another RENAISSANCE OF ISLAM - which brought Europe/West from Dark Ages Christian fundamentalism into the Age of Freedom , Light and Reason. The only thing different this time, it will be due to the Western mass false propaganda against Islam and Muslims which is promoting Islam for free.
I think that highly unlikely…no, make that “more than highly unlikely”.

Are you now going to feed us your version of the “Western mass false propaganda against Islam and Muslims”…???

If you consider that to be “free advertising”…you are barking up the wrong tree… I have yet to see ANYTHING I find attractive or interesting about Islam.
 
I think you misunderstand the situation. Most westerners are averse to many things…and are rather “tolerant”, but that is to a point.
And the reason that “most Westerners are rather tolerant” because they are not living anymore in the Dark Ages of Europe/Fundamentists subjugation.
 
If you look at history…you will see many cases of where one group foreign to another…tries to overtake the other…and it has dire consequences.
Obviously, the “many cases” you are talking about, are just “many cases” and not “all cases” ( as per you).

But the point you seem to have forgotten here is, that one “group” (you are referring to as “foreign to another” and “tries to overtake the other [group]”) is not a foreign group but a Western group itself, as that group itself is either converting/will convert to Islam or becoming/will become more tolerant, sincere and curious and truth seeker. In this, where is the question of a foreign group overtaking another group, if the West itself eventually embraced Islam and becomes Muslim? and then where is the question of “dire consequences”?
 
This is basically the difference between the Muslim and Christian approach to what is ‘good’ and what is ‘evil’.

For Muslims → the Truth is good and falsehood is evil.

Whereas the Christian approach would be → “good” must be the Truth and “evil” must be falsehood.

And how do Christians determine what is ‘good’ and what is ‘evil’?.. Well, the Church will decide for them of course.

They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).Al-Qur’an, 009.031
 
Another interesting thing, is the hidden Iman that the Crazy man from Iran always says he wants to show up. If you read all that he does and compare it to what the Bible says about the Anti-Christ its as if the wrote down word for word what he would do. Ironically the stuff on the Anti-Christ was written first.
 
This is basically the difference between the Muslim and Christian approach to what is ‘good’ and what is ‘evil’.

For Muslims → the Truth is good and falsehood is evil.

Whereas the Christian approach would be → “good” must be the Truth and “evil” must be falsehood.

And how do Christians determine what is good and what is evil?.. Well, the Church will decide for them of course.

They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).Al-Qur’an, 009.031
Will you please come up with something new? You keep saying this. Do you ever read the replies? This has been asked and answered numerous times. No go bow to that box in Mecca… which is not a god you just respect it a whole lot.
 
And the reason that “most Westerners are rather tolerant” because they are not living anymore in the Dark Ages of Europe/Fundamentists subjugation.
I’ll grant that to a point…but then we have also embraced laws that make freedom of religion completely legal, and the suppression of religion illegal.

Islam makes no allowance for that. So, effectively Islam has wholeheartedly step back into the Dark Ages of Europe via the Mid-East/Fundamentalism and desires to drag the rest of the world with it. And this is to be “applauded” or “bragged about”? Subjugation to a religion that deigns it proper to kill anyone who decides not to join? My, my…that’s a real “plus”.

Sorry, no sale.
 
Obviously, the “many cases” you are talking about, are just “many cases” and not “all cases” ( as per you).

But the point you seem to have forgotten here is, that one “group” (you are referring to as “foreign to another” and “tries to overtake the other [group]”) is not a foreign group but a Western group itself, as that group itself is either converting/will convert to Islam or becoming/will become more tolerant, sincere and curious and truth seeker. In this, where is the question of a foreign group overtaking another group, if the West itself eventually embraced Islam and becomes Muslim? and then where is the question of “dire consequences”?
You are hypothesizing based on a false notion. You presume far too much. Your knowledge of the western psyche is sorely limited, or you have bought a line of hogwash…hook, line and sinker. You presume that Americans and others will just get curious and line up at the door… there is no domino effect.

It will matter not whether the “enticers” are Americans… the religion is foreign, and has already left a foul taste and memory. All the smoke blowing in the world won’t change that.

It is not a question of “dire consequences”…it is an eventual reality.
 
I’ll grant that to a point…but then we have also embraced laws that make freedom of religion completely legal, and the suppression of religion illegal.

Islam makes no allowance for that. So, effectively Islam has wholeheartedly step back into the Dark Ages of Europe via the Mid-East/Fundamentalism and desires to drag the rest of the world with it. And this is to be “applauded” or “bragged about”? Subjugation to a religion that deigns it proper to kill anyone who decides not to join? My, my…that’s a real “plus”.

Sorry, no sale.
Here, again you are clearly under the massive false propaganda of West.

Because what you have seen, read and “witnessed” about Islam or present Muslims, is not true picture of Islam nor true examples of how Muslims should be/should behave.

Just like how Europe after getting rid of 'Christian Fundamentist Rulers, “embraced [non-Christian, un-Biblical] laws that make freedom of religion completely legal, and the suppression of religion illegal” is not due to the Christian Dark Age’s Fundamentalist Goverment but because of it’s UNBIBLICAL attitude/approach hence rightly known as secular.
 
This is basically the difference between the Muslim and Christian approach to what is ‘good’ and what is ‘evil’.

For Muslims → the Truth is good and falsehood is evil.
And yet you have to have Mohammed and some Imams tell you what is right or wrong…
Whereas the Christian approach would be → “good” must be the Truth and “evil” must be falsehood.
And how do Christians determine what is ‘good’ and what is ‘evil’?.. Well, the Church will decide for them of course.
Beyond the smoke and mirrors of your word play… you’re just playing word games and trying to hide insults in the words.

For a religion whose two factions claim to be the one true Islam, who have been incidentally slaughtering each other for centuries, and who kill innocent women, children, and men of their own race, you hardly have any clue as to what “truth” or “good” are. You have obviously confused good with “evil” and have embraced “evil”.

Sorry, no sale…
 
Here, again you are clearly under the massive false propaganda of West.
I’m beginning to think you actually believe the hogwash you’re writing… Thanks for the good laughs!!
Becuase what you have seen, read and “witnessed” about Islam or present Muslims, is not true picture of Islam nor true examples of how Muslims should be/should behave.
Oh, really? You mean that all the things written in the Koran are lies? And all of the silent Muslims who daily fail to condemn the bad Muslims who kill innocents and make war on defenseless people by suicide bombings on buses and markets…are doing what…being “good Muslims”?
Just like how Europe after getting rid of 'Christian Fundamentist Rulers, “embraced [non-Christian, un-Biblical] laws that make freedom of religion completely legal, and the suppression of religion illegal” is not due to the Christian Dark Age’s Fundamentalist Goverment.
That statement makes absolutely no sense…none whatsoever.
 
I’m beginning to think you actually believe the hogwash you’re writing… Thanks for the good laughs!!

Oh, really? You mean that all the things written in the Koran are lies? And all of the silent Muslims who daily fail to condemn the bad Muslims who kill innocents and make war on defenseless people by suicide bombings on buses and markets…are doing what…being “good Muslims”?

That statement makes absolutely no sense…none whatsoever.
lol

These replies (reactions) by you are indeed laughable, as you seem like a blind follower and buyer of heavy propaganda of the Westen Media who buys anything/everything that seems to comforting your preconcieved ideas. And it is really too bad for your faith and health as well.
 
You are hypothesizing based on a false notion. You presume far too much. Your knowledge of the western psyche is sorely limited, or you have bought a line of hogwash…hook, line and sinker. You presume that Americans and others will just get curious and line up at the door… there is no domino effect.

It will matter not whether the “enticers” are Americans… the religion is foreign, and has already left a foul taste and memory. All the smoke blowing in the world won’t change that.

It is not a question of “dire consequences”…it is an eventual reality.
I don’t think majority of the West (USA/EUROPE) is what you are assuming about them.

I believe the majority is sincere, peace-loving and truth-seeking people just like any other society (majority) of the world.

See how this same West eventually got rid of Christian Fundamentalism? Obviously this could not have happened if the majority was not sincere and not peace-loving.

Here one more point you clearly seem to have either ignore or not thought of, is the Western attitude of getting rid of Christian Fundamentislm long time back has caused/turned the West into a secular society. As a result, the things West can proud of is due to it’s Anti-Bible and anti-Christian Fundamentalist Attitude /Approch.

So the credit of all the good acheivements /core good nature of present Western society goes to her Anti-Biblical and Secular nature.

Though this secular society now has gone too far (in free approach) and produced some but very harmfull side-effetcs, unkowingly which is eating and making the West hollow internally such as heavy usage of alcohal, the rise of gays, lesbians, drug-addictions, too much freedom of sexual activities openly…etc to name the few.
 
Understanding Islam

islamfortoday.com/pulcini.htm

by Fr. Theodore Pulcini

Muslims now constitute a significant minority in Western countries, most notably France, Britain, Germany, Canada, and the United States. Consequently, those in the West engaged in theological discourse and pastoral work can no longer consign Islam to the outer limits of their universe of religious concerns. Islam is no longer just “over there,” an exotic feature of distant cultures; it is a well-established component of our own religious landscape and deserves attention from all who work to further the Reign of God in our culture.

Having taught courses in Islamic civilization as part of the religious studies curriculum at both secular and church-related institutions, I can give ample testimony to the antagonistic images of Islam obtaining in, and actively perpetuated by, many Western circles. In some cases, it is alarmism that fuels the antagonism (“Muslims are taking over the world!”); in others, the indignation of post-modern Westerners who resent the very existence of a powerful religious tradition which seems to foster “unenlightened” values (“Islam is intolerant, it oppresses women, etc.”). It is a situation fraught with the real possibility of bigotry and violence.

As “people of religion,” we can be particularly effective in shaping religious sentiment toward Muslims in our society. We can either stoke the fires of antagonism, feeding into the dominant societal trend of “demonizing” Islam and Muslims; or we can fight those fires, challenging people to come to a well-informed, balanced appreciation of this “other” in our midst. Most of us, I assume, would affirm the desirability of the latter option. I would like to offer a few suggestions as to how that option might be realized.

First, expose the caricatures – both our own and those of others. Such caricatures are usually based on the assumption that Islam is monolithic and that Muslim communities are homogeneous. Both assumptions are false. Just as there are many “Christianities,” there are many “Islams” and most have very little to do with “Islamism,” that militant, extremist fringe of Islam which, despite its claim to “traditionalism,” actually violates such perennial Islamic values as tolerance, forbearance, hospitality, and broad-mindedness. A number of excellent resources can help you in this process – see the attached reading list. All the recommended authors are Christians who have done much to dispel the rampant misinformation concerning Islam.

Second, reflect on what underlies our tendency to caricature Islam. Many in the Christian world have thrown themselves headlong into the process of challenging the traditional shape of our society and want to eradicate the very memory of its “oppressive” structures. Modernity is uncomfortable with the demands of tradition. When Islam presents itself – unabashedly, unashamedly – as a traditional religion, i.e., as a religion based on the structures and values of a traditional cultural system, those who are shaped by secular culture wince. They are reminded of what our own communities once affirmed (and in some quarters, still do affirm) to be true and what was once imposed (and in some quarters, still is imposed) as obligatory. Moreover, I think many recognize, even if only reluctantly, that in dismantling the traditional shape of our religious life, in many ways our religious communities have been debilitated. Islam’s vitality and self-confidence reminds us of what we have lost. In short, the growing strength of Islamic identity and the resurgence in Islamic practice only serve to underscore the progressive weakening of Christian identity and the steady diminishment of Christian practice in secularized Western societies. We resent Islam’s newly found vitality because it draws attention to our present malaise.

Third, appreciate the practical, external expressions of faith that typify Islamic life. We have much to learn in this regard from Islam. A few years ago even Pope John Paul II pointed to the Muslim fast during the month of Ramadan as an example of the kind of zeal and discipline Christians should, but today rarely do, bring to Lenten fasting. Islam also requires regular prayer – at least five times a day for the observant Muslim. (While at the University of Pittsburgh, I would regularly chance upon a Muslim student in a quiet corner of a library “making salat” on a prayer rug.) How many Christians can claim to set aside time for prayer so regularly? Muslims must give alms (zakat), not just when they feel moved to do so but as a requisite part of their religious practice; year by year they return a certain percentage of their wealth to the community to even up the inequalities that separate the “haves” from the “have nots.” Do we feel so obliged to bridge the gap between the rich and the poor in our communities? Islamic life requires pilgrimage, an experience now largely de-emphasized in modern Christian life. It requires bodily acts of worship like bowing and prostrating, gestures often dismissed as archaic to the “sophisticated” modern Christian. In short, for all of our talk of “incarnational” Christianity, we are becoming a religion less and less likely to enflesh our religious sentiments in external expression. We stress thought and emotion over physicality, enforcing a kind of neo-Gnosticism that sees religion primarily as a “spiritual” sentiment, having little to do with bodily performance. This is, I would say, a most unfortunate trend. Islam reminds us of the need for physical religious enactment.

Fourth, highlight the Islamic emphasis on community life and on the individual’s accountability to community standards. As Christianity in the Western world becomes more atomized and Christian spirituality more privatized, Islam provides a strong testimony to the power of community. One of my Muslim students once remarked, “Wherever I go, whether in the Islamic world or outside it, even if I cannot find a local community of Muslims, I am always aware that I am part of a worldwide community. This is always at the forefront of my mind. It forges my whole identity. It guides my every action. The umma [Islamic community] gives me strength, and I willingly give it my loyalty.” In a culture where commitment to religious community is becoming increasingly rare, and accountability of any sort (whether to a religious tradition or any other “authority”) is seen almost as an infringement of personal rights, the communocentric emphasis of Islam can seem somewhat archaic. It should, however, challenge us Christians in particular to revitalize our communal structures, even if that means drawing boundaries between ourselves and “the world,” boundaries that have been blurred by encroaching secularization. In re-thinking our definition of religious communities and re-shaping the dynamics of life within them, we can learn some valuable lessons from the Muslim experience.

Fifth, use dialogue with Islam as a way not only to increase our appreciation of the Islamic tradition but also to deepen our appreciation of the distinctive features of our own. Make no mistake about it: despite sizeable areas of “common ground,” there is a wide theological chasm between Islam and Christianity. It was largely in reaction to an often distorted presentation of Christian doctrine that Islam formed its own doctrinal heritage. Islamic doctrine challenges us to embrace anew those facets of Christian theology which differentiate us from Muslims – especially the mystery of the Trinity and the divine Sonship of Christ – and then to find new and ever more insightful ways of articulating these dogmas. Simple repetition of traditional formulas usually does not suffice to foster greater understanding of Christianity among Muslims (or among Christians, for that matter)! In questioning the central Christian doctrines, Islam serves us well: it requires us to focus specifically on those distinctive beliefs that are constitutive of our view of God and the world and to find more effective ways of proclaiming and explaining them both to those within the “household of Christianity” and to those without.

Sixth, and finally, make personal contact with Muslim communities and individuals. It is much more difficult to caricature people we know than those we keep at a distance. Call the local Islamic center and ask to be put on the mailing list. These centers often sponsor lectures of public interest; attend one and talk to members of the host community. Groups from the mosque and your church may want to exchange visits. Social service programs can provide opportunities for mosque and church to join together in a common cause. The possibilities for such encounters abound and, if realized, usually bear much good fruit.

Conclusion: On their course evaluation forms, two students in my “Introduction to Islamic Civilization” wrote remarks that I found especially gratifying. The first wrote, “When I signed up for this course, I had nothing but disdain for Muslims; now I am actually able to see the beauty of their religion.” The other wrote, “Studying Islam has made me better able to see what it means for me to say that I am Christian.” These students articulated well what I consider the two main reasons for us to come to an appreciation of Islam. Doing so will enable us not only to affirm this important “other” in our midst and but also to clarify our own identity.

[reprinted from In Communion issue 10, July 1997]
 
Oh woe is you, poor Muslims. Look at how you are free to worship your God in a way consistent with your religion here in the West, to propagate your faith among unbelievers, and build places of worship in any place where you are able to get the necessary permits. I feel so terrible for you all!

Give me a break! Wait, no…better yet, give the religious minorities of the Muslim world the same sort of freedom you are given in the West. That would greatly help our inter-faith relations. As it is now, you want everything for yourselves but cannot handle any criticism or concern even from people who defend your right to worship, let alone the idea that religious minorities in your own societies should be given the same rights you so loudly call for in countries in which you yourselves are the minorities.

We cannot stand to listen to your slander out one side of your mouth against our religion while peddle your religion as “peaceful” and even as what would be best for your adopted countries, and all the religious minorities in the “Muslim” countries that predate you (the Copts, the Assyrians, etc). It is not, and we know it’s not, and no amount of complaining about “propaganda” against you (as though there is no such similar propaganda against Christians by Muslims?) will change that.
 
This is basically the difference between the Muslim and Christian approach to what is ‘good’ and what is ‘evil’.

For Muslims → the Truth is good and falsehood is evil.

Whereas the Christian approach would be → “good” must be the Truth and “evil” must be falsehood.

And how do Christians determine what is ‘good’ and what is ‘evil’?.. Well, the Church will decide for them of course.

They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).Al-Qur’an, 009.031
Again, thank you for pointing out the mistakes Muhammed came up with in his quran.
If he had any understand of Christianity, he would know who Jesus really is.
Muhammed had no concept of Christianity what so ever. The quran is full of errors about the understanding of Christianity, just like this one. Please continue to point out the errors of the quran Ham!! your doing a wonderful job of it. 👍
 
I don’t think majority of the West (USA/EUROPE) is what you are assuming about them.
Although I disagree with you, you are entitled to believe what you will.
I believe the majority is sincere, peace-loving and truth-seeking people just like any other society (majority) of the world.
Maybe, maybe not…but in particular American society and European societies are very different, though they commonalities.
Sure, we love “peace”, however, our meaning of “peace” and the Islamic meaning of peace are two entirely different things. We seek truth…but not the way you wish people to seek it.
See how this same West eventually got rid of Christian Fundamentalism? Obviously this could not have happened if the majority was not sincere and not peace-loving.
You are apparently VERY unschooled with regards to the present state of Christian Fundamentalists…and people being sincere and peace loving has no part in the equation.
Here one more point you clearly seem to have either ignore or not thought of, is the Western attitude of getting rid of Christian Fundamentislm long time back has caused/turned the West into a secular society. As a result, the things West can proud of is due to it’s Anti-Bible and anti-Christian Fundamentalist Attitude /Approch.
No, I didn’t ignore it. You have wholly misunderstood it. No-one got rid of Christian Fundamentalists…they just went quiet for a while. They are back, and have been strongly so for some time now. No, the things that the West can be proud of are due to the strong work ethics of most of the people, their educations and the use of God given talents used for the betterment of mankind. Yes, there are people in the west who are believe in no God, to their detriment, but they are a minority.
So the credit of all the good acheivements /core good nature of present Western society goes to her Anti-Biblical and Secular nature.
Wrong. Now it is you who has fallen victim to the massive anti-West boogie man propaganda machine…
Though this secular society now has gone too far (in free approach) and produced some but very harmfull side-effetcs, unkowingly which is eating and making the West hollow internally such as heavy usage of alcohal, the rise of gays, lesbians, drug-addictions, too much freedom of sexual activities openly…etc to name the few.
Oh, and absolutely none of these things happen in Islamic countries? Come now…you know better than that. Thanks for the good laugh. Lets see…absolutely no alcohol in the Islamic countries…yeah right, maybe on paper, in reality yea, sure. No gays, lesbians, drug addictions, or sexual activities…just to name a few… Sure, right…and I can flap my arms and fly. Islamic countries even have pedophiles… europenews.dk/en/node/9417 sonsofapesandpigs.org/2008/04/pedophile-converts-to-islam-in.html How do you defend your “peace-loving” nature against these things… By claiming them just to be “propaganda”? But its what your Koran says…

Lets see: Much of the Opium that is produced in the world comes straight out of an “ISLAMIC” country…that being Afghanistan, and they produce about 80% of the worlds illegal supplies of Opium/Heroin. That’s something to be proud of.

Gee, I wonder why all the “righteous and good honest Muslims” haven’t taken steps to destroy those crops and retrain the farmers to produce food instead of DOPE???

Please get your facts straight before you start blowing your horn.

No sale…
 
Silouan… That article written by Fr. Pulcini was written 11 years ago. There has been a lot of water pass under the bridge since then.

I wonder if he still believes what he said then now?

Considering all the troubles they have had in France, and the violence that went with it in Paris, and the rest of the violence in other countries in Europe…not to mention the attacks on the US on 9/11 perpetrated by Muslims as an act of Jihad… I think his view would have to be somewhat different…or he is wearing “blinders” or afraid of physical repercussions.

No, I do not believe all Muslims are bad…but I have a problem with those who try to justify Islam…while criticizing all others, and yet they have significant problems in their own backyards that they have yet to clean up. Its rather hypocritical that they pander their beliefs and actions as “peaceful”…when in reality all they want to do is establish a fascist theocracy.

No sale…
 
No, I didn’t ignore it. You have wholly misunderstood it. No-one got rid of Christian Fundamentalists…they just went quiet for a while. They are back, and have been strongly so for some time now. No, the things that the West can be proud of are due to the strong work ethics of most of the people, their educations and the use of God given talents used for the betterment of mankind. Yes, there are people in the west who are believe in no God, to their detriment, but they are a minority.
While I have a high disdain for Christian Fundamentalism, I don’t think the poster you’re responding to realizes that as bad as Fundamentalists can be, to date, there are not thousands of them strapping bombs to their chests and detonating secular coffee shops, adult film stores, etc.

That’s a far cry from Islamic fundamentalism.
 
lol

These replies (reactions) by you are indeed laughable, as you seem like a blind follower and buyer of heavy propaganda of the Westen Media who buys anything/everything that seems to comforting your preconcieved ideas. And it is really too bad for your faith and health as well.
lol

These replies (reactions) by you are indeed laughable, as you seem like a blind follower and buyer of heavy propaganda of the Islamic Media who buys anything/everything that seems to comforting your preconceieved ideas. And it is really too bad for your faith and health as well.

Should I consider your last sentence a “threat”? Should I expect a “fatwah” placed on me as an infidel?
 
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