Islam is BAD!!!

[Silouan]

Salaam/peace

even if this is correct that Muslims are responsible for 9/11 , tell me how many died in that tragedy ? Maximum 3 thousands.

To take revenge , US led forces combining soldiers from Christian majority countries killed thousands & thousands innocents including kids. How many innocents died so far ? Only God knows.

Bush told us 25,000 or 30,000—more or less.

How Bush elected again ? Surely Christians supported / voted , thus they are also responsible for what’s going on in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Why do you waste your time arguing with ignorant and self-righteous Christians???

The Muslims who commited those acts on 9-11, were not following Islam, they were following their desire, their passions.

This is the point, a religion can be used for good or it can be used for bad. There were some Popes who were outright evil, in my book. And there were probably some evil Bishop, Priest also. And there were probably some evil Imams, Shaykhs, etc etc.

Most people in a religion aren’t perfect, God gave man religion to heal their sicknesses. Think about it.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[dzheremi]

I am a Christian and I did not vote for Bush in this or the last election.

I think this is the wrong way to go about things. If your point (which I agree with, if this is in fact your point) is that you as an individual Muslim cannot be reasonably held responsible for the actions of all Muslims worldwide, then you cannot turn around and make similar allegations against individual Christians here or elsewhere for the actions of Christians anywhere in the world. I’ll have you know that the Catholic Church has condemned the war in Iraq as unjust.

You and many other Muslims seem to have a hard time separating the actions of governments and government leaders with the religion of the people in the countries that those governments are elected to represent. I can only guess that this is because the relationship between religion and government is much closer in the Muslim world (near incestuous, it seems in some places) than it is in the West. So you do not understand this relationship, so it is best to learn from people who DO live in the West what that relationship is like.

George W. Bush does NOT speak for me as a Christian, and he certainly does NOT speak for Christianity worldwide. I should hope you would say similar things in refutation of the people who claim to speak for Islam but similarly serve to give it a bad name around the world (Bin Laden and Co).

We should ALL reject such people!

 

[R_not]

Salaam/peace

even if this is correct that Muslims are responsible for 9/11 , tell me how many died in that tragedy ? Maximum 3 thousands.

To take revenge , US led forces combining soldiers from Christian majority countries killed thousands & thousands innocents including kids. How many innocents died so far ? Only God knows.

Bush told us 25,000 or 30,000—more or less.

.

How Bush elected again ? Surely Christians supported / voted , thus they are also responsible for what’s going on in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Actually, Bush had a large muslim vote. And more muslims died by muslim hands than our troops hands. Jihadists also hide behind women and children and as we have seen from not only the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - but also from Lebanon/Israeli wars, etc - muslims will lob bombs from homes with children in it (I don’t consider all their women that innocent) and when they are targeted back and killed by others - the muslims will also use the dead bodies as propoganda.

Sorry, but more muslims have done atrocities against the muslims than any of our troops have done. And also prisoners are taken - muslim atrocities are so bad that this is hard to write - the muslims will carve up the soldiers, burn them, inject things into their bodies, etc - all while they are still alive. When we take prisoners the reverse is not true of what we do to their prisoners. We put them in jail and feed them and do not treat them badly. And don’t bring up that underwear incident - wearing underwear is NOT torture.

In islam, muslims do not consider infidels as innocent - not even babies and children. This is why they aim for kid’s schools in Israel, or what they have done to many schools in Iraq and Afghanistan that we uncovered live ammo.

Now, in Iraq, kids are going to school - including girls. And that also applies in Afghanistan where it was the muslims keeping the girls from going to school. And no outrage over any of this by muslim nations. Not a peep. muslims such as the bloated saudis and others who are so rich we can’t even imagine only whine and cry when the bombs are aimed in their direction. Even though they are the biggest exporters of jihadists.

 

[R_not]

I am a Christian and I did not vote for Bush in this or the last election.

I think this is the wrong way to go about things. If your point (which I agree with, if this is in fact your point) is that you as an individual Muslim cannot be reasonably held responsible for the actions of all Muslims worldwide, then you cannot turn around and make similar allegations against individual Christians here or elsewhere for the actions of Christians anywhere in the world. I’ll have you know that the Catholic Church has condemned the war in Iraq as unjust.

You and many other Muslims seem to have a hard time separating the actions of governments and government leaders with the religion of the people in the countries that those governments are elected to represent. I can only guess that this is because the relationship between religion and government is much closer in the Muslim world (near incestuous, it seems in some places) than it is in the West. So you do not understand this relationship, so it is best to learn from people who DO live in the West what that relationship is like.

George W. Bush does NOT speak for me as a Christian, and he certainly does NOT speak for Christianity worldwide. I should hope you would say similar things in refutation of the people who claim to speak for Islam but similarly serve to give it a bad name around the world (Bin Laden and Co).

We should ALL reject such people!

I voted for Bush and I do recognize Bush as our leader. He does not speak for me as a Christian, but he did speak for me for these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It doesn’t matter if they blame us for the war or not - the muslim’s record of atrocities that our troops have ran up against even against their own people - is where the numbers of deaths come from. It is common for muslims to use ‘turnspeak’ and blame others for their deeds.

And we see that not one peep out of any of the muslims for the atrocities that muslims do against the Hindus, or how about the recent developments in the Philippines - another example of muslims unable to live with others and wanting their own lands after decades of them bombing others.

OH! BUT they riot and kill and destroy when a cartoon is made! You better believe the so called ‘moderates’ know when to come out and get a voice.

 

[Silouan]

In islam, muslims do not consider infidels as innocent - not even babies and children. This is why they aim for kid’s schools in Israel, or what they have done to many schools in Iraq and Afghanistan that we uncovered live ammo.
.

What a load of hogwash? I am not Muslim anymore, but when I was Muslim, I never believed such, and I was never taught such.

Sometimes, I think hateful Christians just make this stuff up. I see it as mere fantasy. I am not saying all Muslims are Saints, but Islam doesn’t teach such non-sense. Perhaps a deranged person who happens to be Muslim thinks like that. But Muslims are taught that.

Anyway,

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[dzheremi]

R_not: George W. Bush is indeed the elected leader of the United States right now. I was merely making the point that he is not in any way the spokesperson for Christianity worldwide, so pointing to decisions he has made while president as proof of how “evil” Christians makes no sense at all.

 

[R_not]

It wasn’t islam, the sunni or the shia, who has made Iraq a better place to live - it was the USA and our efforts there. We kept at it until the sunni and shia stopped the never ending war (well, I actually don’t think we will ever stop that forever), but they have been making progress due to our presence in Iraq.

You can do your own searches, but here are some websites going over the progress (that the left wing, mainstream media, sort of has ignored)

nationalreview.com/comment/crawford200604240729.asp

This website has several articles - very lengthly.

heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/Iraq/Iraq.cfm

But, overall this is also reversible and gee who would be the ones reversing it? I give you one guess and the word begins and ends with an ‘m’.

 

[dzheremi]

This is not going anywhere good…

 

[KenEOTE]

Why do you waste your time arguing with ignorant and self-righteous Christians???

The Muslims who commited those acts on 9-11, were not following Islam, they were following their desire, their passions.

This is the point, a religion can be used for good or it can be used for bad. There were some Popes who were outright evil, in my book. And there were probably some evil Bishop, Priest also. And there were probably some evil Imams, Shaykhs, etc etc.

Most people in a religion aren’t perfect, God gave man religion to heal their sicknesses. Think about it.

In Christ,

Silouan

The real Question is why do we argue with self-righteous ignorant Muslims. Who refuse to condemn the actions of men who kill and slaughter in the name of Allah.

 

[R_not]

What a load of hogwash? I am not Muslim anymore, but when I was Muslim, I never believed such, and I was never taught such.

Sometimes, I think hateful Christians just make this stuff up. I see it as mere fantasy. I am not saying all Muslims are Saints, but Islam doesn’t teach such non-sense. Perhaps a deranged person who happens to be Muslim thinks like that. But Muslims are taught that.

Anyway,

In Christ,

Silouan

I am very well acquainted with current news across the middle east, india, Southeast Asia, etc.

Missiles and bombs have been aimed at children and teenagers. Little girls are kidnapped and enslaved in India, Africa, and elsewhere - and they are forcibly converted and married to muslim males. Many of them are raped and enslaved too as are little boys.

When islam says that infidels are less than pigs, dogs and feces, and are not protected under sharia law therefore they can be done with as they wish - if they do not pay the jizya. And we have seen too many times that even then those infidels are in danger.

jihadwatch.org/archives/010462.php

An example of no infidel is an innocent can be seen in mohammed’s first battle of the Quraysh when he made a ‘treaty’, and then either killed all the men and boys with hair, and enslaved all the rest of the women and children and passed them around as booty. Oh, and the reason why I put tics around treaty is because no treaty in islam is to last longer than 10 years and is to be broken when the muslims are rearmed/regrouped. Hence we saw it just recently with the supposed treaty with Israel - the muslims broke it again.

You can label me hateful - I prefer to say that I am on to what islam is all about. I can say that you might have been duped by it, I have not and will not be duped by it.

And we have seen that many converts are very ignorant of their own religion and an example of one is sister amy.

 

[KenEOTE]

Salaam/peace

even if this is correct that Muslims are responsible for 9/11 , tell me how many died in that tragedy ? Maximum 3 thousands.

To take revenge , US led forces combining soldiers from Christian majority countries killed thousands & thousands innocents including kids. How many innocents died so far ? Only God knows.

Bush told us 25,000 or 30,000—more or less.

.

How Bush elected again ? Surely Christians supported / voted , thus they are also responsible for what’s going on in Iraq & Afghanistan.

The difference is that the Combined forces are not doing it in the Name of Christ. Can you see the difference? I have already said I do not want our soldiers dying in Iraq or Afghanistan. I don’t want them over there fighting for the freedom of people who don’t want it. But the forces that are there are not doing it in the name of Christ.

The terrorists routinely say they do it in the name of Allah. I am wondering where is the outrage to that?

 

[KenEOTE]

What a load of hogwash? I am not Muslim anymore, but when I was Muslim, I never believed such, and I was never taught such.

Sometimes, I think hateful Christians just make this stuff up. I see it as mere fantasy. I am not saying all Muslims are Saints, but Islam doesn’t teach such non-sense. Perhaps a deranged person who happens to be Muslim thinks like that. But Muslims are taught that.

Anyway,

In Christ,

Silouan

I am curious what brought you out of Islam?

 

[kalnaa]

** Jesus was put on the cross and suffered much.But when brought down from cross, he was alive, heart beating, they did not bury him nor performed any burial rights because they came to know that he was alive. There was hope. God saved Jesus from the worst type of death, on the cross. You know what that means if any one dies on the cross?.

Since he did not die, the act of crucifixion was not completed. Therefore Jesus was not crucified. Crucifixion does not mean putting on the cross. It means death on the cross.
Why are you so anxious to kill Jesus on the cross? Those present there were not all enemies. Many were friends. They could never say that Jesus was alive. They had to say that he had died. Thus they saved him from the breaking of his legs, and saved his life too.
**

The very reason, the romans did not break Jesus’s legs was becuase he was already dead. Please read the NT beofre you make silly comments. Jeus died on the cross to pay for the sins of all the people so that by his death, all those who believe in him would be saved. It says in the NT the wage for sin is death and someone without sin had to suffer and die, shed blood so that God will forgive the sins of mankind. But it wasn’t meant to end there, Jesus rose from the dead( resurected) which means all those who believe in him on the day of the judgment will be resurected. It was the Holy Plan of God from the moment Adam and Eve disobeyed him. Its in the old testament.

 

[dzheremi]

A+ post there, (name removed by moderator). This American agrees with you 100%.

 

[Silouan]

The real Question is why do we argue with self-righteous ignorant Muslims. Who refuse to condemn the actions of men who kill and slaughter in the name of Allah.

Exactly, never argue with an ignorant person, there will be not fruits.

 

[inJESUS]

Silouan, when you were a Muslim, reading the Quran and hadith and sunna made you love Jews and Christians? was it the teachings or you as a person? because in my experience, the more one gets involved in islamic teaching, the more the hatred to Jews and Christians so am interested in your perspective, and i will not quote the hateful Quranic verses, i will quote the behavior of Umar bil Al-Khattab in his treaty with the Christians of Sham, for example.

This is why the Leader of the faithful Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, **THESE CONDITIONS THAT ENSURED THEIR CONTINUED HUMILIATION, DEGRADATION AND DISGRACE.** The scholars of Hadith narrated from Abdur-Rahman bin Ghanm Al-Ashari that he said, "I recorded for Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, the terms of the treaty of peace he conducted with the Christians of Ash-Sham:

‘In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. This is a document to the servant of Allah `Umar, the Leader of the faithful, from the Christians of such and such city. When you (Muslims) came to us we requested safety for ourselves, children, property and followers of our religion.

We made a condition on ourselves that we will neither erect in our areas a monastery, church, or a sanctuary for a monk, nor restore any place of worship that needs restoration nor use any of them for the purpose of enmity against Muslims.

We will not prevent any Muslim from resting in our churches whether they come by day or night, and we will open the doors [of our houses of worship] for the wayfarer and passerby.

Those Muslims who come as guests, will enjoy boarding and food for three days.

We will not allow a spy against Muslims into our churches and homes or hide deceit [or betrayal] against Muslims.

We will not teach our children the Qur’an, publicize practices of Shirk, invite anyone to Shirk or prevent any of our fellows from embracing Islam, if they choose to do so.

We will respect Muslims, MOVE FROM THE PLACES WE SIT IN IF THEY CHOOSE TO SIT IN THEM.

We will not imitate their clothing, caps, turbans, sandals, hairstyles, speech, nicknames and title names, or ride on saddles, hang swords on the shoulders, collect weapons of any kind or carry these weapons.

We will not encrypt our stamps in Arabic, or sell liquor.

We will have the front of our hair cut, wear our customary clothes wherever we are, wear belts around our waist, refrain from erecting crosses on the outside of our churches and demonstrating them and our books in public in Muslim fairways and markets.

We will not sound the bells in our churches, except discretely, or raise our voices while reciting our holy books inside our churches in the presence of Muslims, nor raise our voices [with prayer] at our funerals, or light torches in funeral processions in the fairways of Muslims, or their markets.

We will not bury our dead next to Muslim dead, or buy servants who were captured by Muslims. We will be guides for Muslims and refrain from breaching their privacy in their homes.’

When I gave this document to Umar, he added to it, We will not beat any Muslim. These are the conditions that we set against ourselves and followers of our religion IN RETURN FOR SAFETY AND PROTECTION. If we break any of these promises that we set for your benefit against ourselves, then our Dhimmah (promise of protection) is broken and you are allowed to do with us what you are allowed of people of defiance and rebellion.’"

tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=20986

Do you think that these rules put by Umar to ensure humiliation and disgrace stem from love or hatred? because i have no doubt that many Muslims are loving people, but is the Islamic ideology that of love?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

A Pastor told me he & many Christians voted for Bush because Bush was against abortion.

It looks like unborn US babies are more imp to them than the living human being in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Yes , he has some other points but I was hurt by this logic that electing Bush means save the lives of thousands unborn US babies . When we know that because of Bush’s lies , thousands innocents already dead & will surely die in Iraq , how it’s possible that people can select a proven liar & killer ?

 

[inJESUS]

I dislike Bush but let’s be honest…arabs’ major ennemy is themselves…

 

[dzheremi]

InJESUS, I do not understand the portion about not encrypting their stamps in Arabic. I am assuming that Muslim invaders were Arabic-speakers, so how could the Christians encrypt anything in Arabic to the detriment of the Muslims? Sorry if this is a silly question.

Thanks for the rest of the information. It really helps to understand how Muslims have historically viewed us, even though we are “ahl al-kitab”, and where the current attitude is rooted. It is frustrating to continue to insist that all-condemning posters have it wrong (no matter what their religious orientation) when there are still so many in all religious communities who will not cast a similarly skeptical eye on their own communities. And, since the stereotype of the Christian that cheers at the fall of Iraq is apparently more psychologically powerful and lasting than the reality of the majority of worldwide Christianity condemning the war, the replies of people like Planten who say that there is no love in Christianity or Muslim Woman who make outlandish equivocations between secular political leaders with (in my opinion) opportunistic religious trappings and everyday followers of a religion will just continue on and on.

But still I have met good, seemingly peaceful Muslims who at least in my presence seem to respect my religious views and understand what pluralism is all about. I truly hope that they are the present and future of Islam, but I really don’t know. Radicalization seems so easy when so many are not allowed to openly question very much in the Islamic societies - be their questions religious, political or other…

(End of rant. Sorry. That kinda got away from me for a bit! )

 

[cathopologist]

Salaam/peace;

A Pastor told me he & many Christians voted for Bush because Bush was against abortion.

It looks like unborn US babies are more imp to them than the living human being in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Yes , he has some other points but I was hurt by this logic that electing Bush means save the lives of thousands unborn US babies . When we know that because of Bush’s lies , thousands innocents already dead & will surely die in Iraq , how it’s possible that people can select a proven liar & killer ?

Like it or not, a soldier’s life is expandable. He chooses to fight unlike being forced in the case of the Janissaries. Not a Bush administration admirer myself, you cannot ignore the fact many soldiers volunteered to fight in Iraq.

A soldier already lived his life. Are aborted babies given a choice? For every soldier’s sacrifice, a new life comes into the world.

Once again, the Catholic Church was very much against the war in Iraq. You don’t seem to take that to heed. Where was the Muslim voice when Armenians were being ruthlessly massacred?