Islam is BAD!!!

[R_not]

Salaam/peace

related verses :

The Noble Qur’an An-Nur 24:2-9

…The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes.

Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last Day.

And let a party of the believers witness their punishment.

… And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever, they indeed are the Fâsiqûn (liars, rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).

Stop with the salaam, peace junk - it is only a facade and I find it offensive coming from people who only care about their image and do nothing to make true peace.

Well, then it seems that a whole lot of muslim males are guilty of a lot of sins that your muslim society does nothing about. And it doesn’t do any good to tell me of the atrocities of muslim societies - go tell it to your fellow muslims - especially the muslim males. Because they are the ones bringing it to our shores - and if they are not following the koran - they are the ones sinning.

Oh, but since shirk is your only sin, then I guess it doesn’t matter. Just let the muslim males kill whomever they want to kill!?! If they torture and kill muslim women - so what? Isn’t that what you are trying to tell us? It is what I am getting from all your inane posts trying to prove it isn’t islamic that muslim males not only beat their women, but also can torture and kill them in other ways.

I don’t know what your point is if it isn’t that.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Stop with the salaam, peace junk

God Willing …nuh. Avoid to read it …easy solution

since shirk is your only sin, then I guess it doesn’t matter. Just let the muslim males kill whomever they want to kill!?! .

“Whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land –** it is as if he has killed mankind entirely**.”

(Al-Maaidah 5:32)

“Whoever kills a believer intentionally – his recompense is Hell, wherein he will abide eternally,
and Allaah has become angry with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him a great punishment.”

(An-Nisaa 4:93)

Prophet said, "The greatest of the major sins is to ascribe partners to Allaah in worship and killing [innocent] soul

 

[whatevergirl]

maybe this is why there is no progress in muslim countries with not only science, but also with literature, math, and in their laws - because no matter how many times one tells the same muslim something - that muslim is unable to learn, or to tolerate, or to do anything except follow their 6th century koran.

No one does what you are quoting and no one has done it for several millenium.

What do you not understand about that? Is it that you cannot understand or you do not want to understand?

This is a very uncharitable post.

Muslims living in the middle east are often intimidated and do not have the wherewithall to get out of their circumstances. They are persecuted if they do not go along with traditional teachings in many parts of the middle east. It isn’t because they choose to not advance…it is because often times, they are frightened to change.

 

[dzheremi]

There are many examples of Muslims in many parts of the world who are doing much to change their positions in society and to fight injustice and make things better for the downtrodden in their countries. Just last night I watched a program on public broadcasting called “Faces of Change” about a man in Muaritania (I don’t remember his name, unfortunately) who was working with a grassroots, underground political party on behalf of the enslaved of Mauritania, who (according to the program) make up as much as 40% of Mauritanian society. This is despite the fact that slavery was officially outlawed in 1981, since the government has apparently never bothered to actually enforce that law. The activist was an everyday Muslim man with a large family who would go around interviewing and taping, at risk of torture and imprisonment, slaves he would meet. He asked them about their situations, discussed them with anti-slavery activist lawyers, and brought their stories before the world at a human rights conference in South Africa. He won, through his party, a position as mayor of his small town after his return from South Africa, but six months later the government outlawed his party and stripped him of his position as retaliation for his activities.

People like this man are an inspiration to me, regardless of their religion. May there be many more like him!

 

[Silouan]

Salaam/peace;
God Willing …nuh. Avoid to read it …easy solution

Why do you even respond to R_not? She is beyond help. You know how you have bad Muslims, like Osama Bin Laden. Well we have bad Christians and R_not is one of them.

The only help for her is prayers and a miracle.

There are some really good Christians, who knows what it means to be Christ like and to be just. And I don’t want you to get the wrong picture of Christianity and what is teaches. Christ has never taught any of us to be like R_not.

And may the Lord have Mercy on all of us.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[KenEOTE]

Why do you even respond to R_not? She is beyond help. You know how you have bad Muslims, like Osama Bin Laden. Well we have bad Christians and R_not is one of them.

The only help for her is prayers and a miracle.

There are some really good Christians, who knows what it means to be Christ like and to be just. And I don’t want you to get the wrong picture of Christianity and what is teaches. Christ has never taught any of us to be like R_not.

And may the Lord have Mercy on all of us.

In Christ,

Silouan

Silouan now you are doing the very thing you say you are against to R_not. To say R_not is a bad Christian is just as judgemental. Frankly there are no “Good” Christians. We are fallen and sinful, the only think Good in us is Christ and his Holy Spirit. To claim we are good is a fallacy.

She is explaining her view from her life experiences. She is passionate. I can understand her frustration. I have felt it too. When you ask something simple like why do not more Muslims stand up against the radicals and why do these countries have honor killings or stoning or whatever and then getting a quote from Leviticus or Deuteronomy to explain it? That is craziness. Even Israel does not stone people any longer.

To be honest you are the first Muslim Convert I have met that didn’t have to go into Hiding or fear for their life. You seem to be the first Muslim convert I have met that hasn’t said that Islam is bad. I have met well over 25 converts from Islam and they all talk about how they were taught to hate Christians, and Jews. How they were taught America was evil. Even in this forum, Muslim Woman and Ham, have stated they View the Allied Forces as Christian Forces on a crusade. That is a twisted view. Yet you continue to defend Islam.

I am really curious about your conversion, how did it occur, what was lacking in Islam for you that you found in Christ? What has changed in your life, since coming to Christ.

My basic premise on Islam is that it is Bad, yes there is truth, yes there is some good taught, but any religion that Denies Christ and Denies the Crucifixion is a false religion that is shrouded in half truths to lead others astray. Who would want to lead many astray? That is the question. Who would want to deny who Christ was? When you know who would want that, then you know who founded that religion.

 

[Silouan]

Silouan now you are doing the very thing you say you are against to R_not. To say R_not is a bad Christian is just as judgemental.

My statement is not intended to judge R_not, but rather to correct a wrong action that she has committed.

When you ask something simple like why do not more Muslims stand up against the radicals and why do these countries have honor killings or stoning or whatever and then getting a quote from Leviticus or Deuteronomy to explain it?

There are alot of problems in the Muslim World, alot of problems. Muslim scholars are aware of these honor killings and they speak out against it but they have no backing from the government. Most of the Muslim world are ruled by dictators who are supported by the West. There are alot of problems in the Muslim world. I remember two Muslims, one from Palestine and another from Egypt, saying it is so easy to practice Islam in America, but it is very hard to practice Islam in my country. This is what I was told.

To be honest you are the first Muslim Convert I have met that didn’t have to go into Hiding or fear for their life.

I do have a little fear, but I do live in America, so I feel a little safe and I don’t go out and propagate to the Muslim communities that I have left Islam.

You seem to be the first Muslim convert I have met that hasn’t said that Islam is bad.

There are good things about Islam and bad things about Islam and I have acknowledged the bad things that I feel exist in Islam.

I have met well over 25 converts from Islam and they all talk about how they were taught to hate Christians, and Jews.

I was never taught to hate Jews or Christians and I was taught by educated Muslims. I wondered who taught these converts. Muslims are taught to hate disbelief, but NOT the disbeliever, in fact, I was taught to always think that everybody around is better than you, because you don’t know how you are going to die. That God is not confined by time and space, so past, present and future is right before God. So a disbeliever can be a disbeliever today and end up a believer tomorrow and you a believer today and a disbeliever tomorrow, in that alone should that put enough fear in your heart to know that is possible that this person before you is better than you. Because God will judge you based on the state you were in when you died.

Yet you continue to defend Islam.

I defend what is correct. If there is something that is true about Islam, I was say yes that is correct, if something that is false about Islam, I was say no that is not correct. Honor Killings is NOT Islamic, in not way form or fashion.

Islam teaches that women can be beat, but it is with condition. That is the truth.

Islam teaches jiziyah for non-Muslims and non-Muslims legally speaking are treated not as equal as Muslims are, this is true.

Islam teaches that if someone steals their hands get cut off. Islam teaches that if someone commits adultery he may either get stoned or whipped and this too is with condition.

There are many truths about Islam that aren’t good. But there is no reason to lie about Islam. That is my whole point. If R_not did not insist on teaching false things about Islam I would NOT have to defend it, if she teaches truthful bad things about Islam, I would welcome it with open arms…

I am really curious about your conversion, how did it occur, what was lacking in Islam for you that you found in Christ? What has changed in your life, since coming to Christ.

Islam is too legalistic. Its legal system seems to surpress the spiritual system of Islam.

All beauty that exist in Islam, exist in Christianity. Islam is really a heretic sect of Christianity, it is only natural that beauty can be found in it.

What change, nothing really. If I had to choose one thing I would say, I understand myself a little better. I understand my spiritual path a little better, where God is leading me to.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[Silouan]

Yet you continue to defend Islam.
.

Its really about being fair. I don’t like it when Protestant Christians or Muslims make the false accusations that we worship Mary or Saints and that we are in violation of this and that verse, and when they haven’t even studied our religion nor sought our understanding of this or that verse. That isn’t fair to us. If I demand that Protestant Christians and Muslims be fair to us, than we must be fair with them.

Our Lord Jesus Christ said, "Blessed are those who show mercy for they shall be shown mercy."

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[planten]

Salaam/peace;

“If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.”

(Deuteronomy 22: 22)

“If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife-with the wife of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death”

(Leviticus 20: 10).

**That Mosiac law of stoning the adulterers to death is for the christians too. They are unduly running away from that Law. If Jesus was the last prophet of God in line with the jewish prophets and he was following the law, there is no reason that the christians who profess to be the lovers of Jesus should disown that law. Jesus came to fulfil the law, to implement it in its true meaning. Not to discard the law.

His disciples never discarded that law. As long as they lived. How come the christians have abondoned the path of Jesus on the way and they are now enjoying the liberty of adultration all over the place. There is no control, no punishment in their religion about adultry now.

Just imagine. Is it not a complete reversal of the Moses and Jesus teaching?? It appears that for the christians, the god hs changed or the law has changed.**

 

[planten]

Why do you even respond to R_not? She is beyond help. You know how you have bad Muslims, like Osama Bin Laden. Well we have bad Christians and R_not is one of them.

The only help for her is prayers and a miracle.

There are some really good Christians, who knows what it means to be Christ like and to be just. And I don’t want you to get the wrong picture of Christianity and what is teaches. Christ has never taught any of us to be like R_not.

And may the Lord have Mercy on all of us.

In Christ,

Silouan

**Another good and bold statement in support of truth and honesty from silouan. This is required from the people of all religions. Islam upholds it (verse 2:255 and 2:62).

It is necessary (whatever ones religion) to do good,not to accuse and abuse others. It is better to have love for all and hatred for none. Love will solve all the problems.**

 

[planten]

Silouan now you are doing the very thing you say you are against to R_not. To say R_not is a bad Christian is just as judgemental. Frankly there are no “Good” Christians. We are fallen and sinful, the only think Good in us is Christ and his Holy Spirit. To claim we are good is a fallacy.

She is explaining her view from her life experiences. She is passionate. I can understand her frustration. I have felt it too. When you ask something simple like why do not more Muslims stand up against the radicals and why do these countries have honor killings or stoning or whatever and then getting a quote from Leviticus or Deuteronomy to explain it? That is craziness. Even Israel does not stone people any longer.

To be honest you are the first Muslim Convert I have met that didn’t have to go into Hiding or fear for their life. You seem to be the first Muslim convert I have met that hasn’t said that Islam is bad. I have met well over 25 converts from Islam and they all talk about how they were taught to hate Christians, and Jews. How they were taught America was evil. Even in this forum, Muslim Woman and Ham, have stated they View the Allied Forces as Christian Forces on a crusade. That is a twisted view. Yet you continue to defend Islam.

I am really curious about your conversion, how did it occur, what was lacking in Islam for you that you found in Christ? What has changed in your life, since coming to Christ.

My basic premise on Islam is that it is Bad, yes there is truth, yes there is some good taught, but any religion that Denies Christ and Denies the Crucifixion is a false religion that is shrouded in half truths to lead others astray. Who would want to lead many astray? That is the question. Who would want to deny who Christ was? When you know who would want that, then you know who founded that religion.

** Effort is being made to distract silouan from the right path. There is no need to that. If silouan cannot saywhat is right then it is bad. There is no absolute order against judgement. It is necessary to judge the own doings and of the others in ones mind all the time. That is called retrospection. The faculty of wisdom is given to mankind for such a purpose.

Please do not disturb silouan or the Muslim woman.**

 

[planten]

To silouan from some one, perhaps KenEOTE…

To be honest you are the first Muslim Convert I have met that didn’t have to go into Hiding or fear for their life. You seem to be the first Muslim convert I have met that hasn’t said that Islam is bad. I have met well over 25 converts from Islam and they all talk about how they were taught to hate Christians, and Jews. How they were taught America was evil. Even in this forum, Muslim Woman and Ham, have stated they View the Allied Forces as Christian Forces on a crusade. That is a twisted view. Yet you continue to defend Islam.

** I was also educated by muslims and christians and Hindus and again christians ( English, German, French) all over the places, and then chinese and Arabs too. Nobody preached hate to me. It was all interesting and enjoyable. The best school that I attended was run by a Hindu community. They did it well honestly. Excellent.

I never met a bad christian in my practical life. I have performed a few Hajj by the Grace of Allah and found it a good experience. I have nothing against any christian or Jew. May Allah accept our prayers. Ameen.**

 

[bobzills]

While everyone is splitting hairs about the words of the koran - every, single muslim country allows honor killings and I have already provided websites that prove that not only do the muslim males protest if some of these countries try to change this law - the other countries do NOTHING to stop it unless those muslims are living in Western countries.

And the sickening part of this is the silence of muslim women and others that usually protest human abuses that live in the West. There are more people such as Mr. Robert Spencer that try to bring these abuses to light that get bullied, bashed and intimidated by muslims - even muslim women.

This whole scenario is sickening. And we split hairs over if it is in the koran or not. The koran has so much other vile things such as it being ok to enslave, kill and deceive that to use it to split hairs over these atrocities is a joke.

however, the Catholic Pope has bowed down and kissed the Koran. Shouldn’t Catholics follow the Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church in all matters of faith and morals?

 

[cathopologist]

**That Mosiac law of stoning the adulterers to death is for the christians too. They are unduly running away from that Law. If Jesus was the last prophet of God in line with the jewish prophets and he was following the law, there is no reason that the christians who profess to be the lovers of Jesus should disown that law. Jesus came to fulfil the law, to implement it in its true meaning. Not to discard the law.

His disciples never discarded that law. As long as they lived. How come the christians have abondoned the path of Jesus on the way and they are now enjoying the liberty of adultration all over the place. There is no control, no punishment in their religion about adultry now.

Just imagine. Is it not a complete reversal of the Moses and Jesus teaching?? It appears that for the christians, the god hs changed or the law has changed.**

****"…the New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New."********- CCC 129

 

[cathopologist]

however, the Catholic Pope has bowed down and kissed the Koran. Shouldn’t Catholics follow the Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church in all matters of faith and morals?

Even if he did kiss the Koran, it simply states that he respects the holy book of the Muslims. As much as we (Christians) disagree with Islamic teaching (especially concerning historicity and Jesus’ divinity), they claim to pray to the same God of the OT also.

As unimaginable and shocking as it can be (to people who do not understand what Pope John Paul II did), St. Francis of Assisi also caused controversy during his time when he would kiss his leper brethren (when people during his time considered lepers cursed and filthy).

It could also be a “political agenda”. JP II was not ignorant. If you were as famous as him (being a religious leader), and a copy of the Koran was forced into your face (when other Muslim leaders were standing by), what would you do? JP II knew if he didn’t show respect to their holy book, it could cause riots and massacres against Christians of that country. I don’t hold that against him, in fact, we should thank him for not being arrogant and saving countless number of Christian lives from being butchered.
**
“I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.” John 10:16**

 

[dzheremi]

Excellent points, Cathopologist. We must think of our Christian brothers and sisters in the Muslim countries, because it is not those Christians in the West who scream bloody murder about the harshness of Islamic social custom and law that actually have to live under the threat of persecution under the same. It is incredibly irresponsible to invite more harm upon the Christian communities that live alongside the Muslims, as they already pay so dearly for their true belief in Jesus Christ.

 

[Angelos]

**Another good and bold statement in support of truth and honesty from silouan. This is required from the people of all religions. Islam upholds it (verse 2:255 and 2:62).

It is necessary (whatever ones religion) to do good,not to accuse and abuse others. It is better to have love for all and hatred for none. Love will solve all the problems.**

I am fed up with your contradictory statements. Muslims like you actually force people like R_Not to approach all believers of a religion with doubt.

You are talking about loving and respecting one another and inviting us to stop abusing Muslims whereas you yourself abuse and insult us Christians in your previous post for supposedly disobeying God’s Law and forsaking the truth. You are doing this with your almost zero knowledge about Christianity and the NT.

You are not in a position to command us how to believe or teach us our religion.

 

[Angelos]

however, the Catholic Pope has bowed down and kissed the Koran. Shouldn’t Catholics follow the Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church in all matters of faith and morals?

The Pope’s act of reverence was completely personal. Although I am not Roman Catholic, I am sure that the Catholic Church has no dogma or statement that obligates her members to respect or kiss the Koran.

 

[Silouan]

**That Mosiac law of stoning the adulterers to death is for the christians too. They are unduly running away from that Law. If Jesus was the last prophet of God in line with the jewish prophets and he was following the law, there is no reason that the christians who profess to be the lovers of Jesus should disown that law. Jesus came to fulfil the law, to implement it in its true meaning. Not to discard the law.

His disciples never discarded that law. As long as they lived. How come the christians have abondoned the path of Jesus on the way and they are now enjoying the liberty of adultration all over the place. There is no control, no punishment in their religion about adultry now.

Just imagine. Is it not a complete reversal of the Moses and Jesus teaching?? It appears that for the christians, the god hs changed or the law has changed.**

Jesus came to teach us the principles behind the law. The maxiums of the law, the objectives of the law. Thus by fulfilling the maxiums of the law, we are actually fulfilling all of the law, because that is the point or aim or objective of the law.

You can’t just read one or two verses of the bible, but rather you have to understand Christianity as a complete and whole tradition. The Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church isn’t just based on the bible, but on the whole tradition of the early Christians. The problem with protestant Christians is they have the bible, but they lack tradition, thus they are missing the correct understanding of New Testament.

Jesus said,

1. ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[a] 37 This is the first and great commandment. 38
2. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’**

**On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”**39 (Matt 22:37-40)

Now keep this in mind. Now go and read John 8:1-11 And you will see Jesus implementing these principles.

1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Now early[a] in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught** in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded[c] us that such should be stoned.[d] But what do You say?”[e] 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.[f]

My Thoughts:** They wanted to test Jesus and His knowledge of the Law. But Jesus came to teach a higher aspect of the law. They wanted to follow the letter of the law, but Jesus came to teach the spirit of the law.

Let’s continue with the John.

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up[g] and said to them, **“He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” **

My Thoughts: The point of the law isn’t about punishing people. It isn’t designed to be cruel. It is about attaching ones heart to God. Becoming one with God. Jesus said, "‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

And it is about creating social harmony and love for one another to be compassionate towards one another. Jesus said,* ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’***** by saying what Jesus said, Jesus said, **“He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” ** it reminded them of the second principle or point of the law, that you love your neighbor as you love yourself. If you look at your ownself, you won’t be so quick to punish other people, you will be more merciful. And Jesus also illustrated that it is impossible to follow all of the laws. Everybody left because everybody sins.

You see how irrational those people were, ready to kill that woman, just like the Muslims today, kill without looking at their ownself. Muhammad actually had this kind of compassion, if you study his life with the understanding, but Muslims don’t get it. They’ve become like the people Jesus was dealing with . This is the problem with a legalistic tradition such as Judaism and Islam.

The problem with the Muslim world, is they want to point the finger at everybody else except themselves. Jesus said, **“He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” ** And most are so willing to cast the first stone and not even look at themselves.

In Conclusion,

We follow Jesus not Moses. So we are following the principles or the maxiums or objective of the law. Jesus taught us to follow the spirit of the law, not necessarily the letter of the law. Our fulfillment of spirit of the law is the fulfillment of all of the law since that is the objective of the law in the first place.

In Christ,

Silouan**

 

[inJESUS]

** inJesus, you do not know abc of real Islam. Please know that it is in Judaic law that adulterer must be stoned to death. It is not in the Quran.**

Planten, if you are a Jew, follow Moses. I’m no Jew, i follow Jesus, am a Christian, thank you. You must read about capital punishment in Judaism to see that Jews themselves do not apply it , and Jesus explained it…the last man to cast a stone on a woman is a man who used to sleep with 11 women on a single day and who had sex slaves and taught temporary marriages…

So there is no stoning in the Quran for the adulterer or the fornicator.