Islam & Muslim bashing thread?

[coleraine]

This thread is a great idea. I started out here at CAF on this part of the forum. The Muslim badgering is not only wrong, it gets old really quick and it ruins every thread. There are not all that many who do this. But what they lack in numbers, they make up with persistence.

Yes, there are few terrorists, when compared with the whole of islam. but in the Koran is sewn the seeds of hate. it is right their for anyone who truly takes th Koran seriously to act on-if they have lost all free will and dont think for themselves. thats why it scares me. when the muslims on here are asked a question…they just avoid it. they cant contradict islam in any way. so how long does it take for someone who cant speak for themselves to be sucked into terroris, or islamic jihad, when it is in the Koran, that cant be spoken out against?

 

[planten]

Yes, there are few terrorists, when compared with the whole of islam. but in the Koran is sewn the seeds of hate. it is right their for anyone who truly takes th Koran seriously to act on-if they have lost all free will and dont think for themselves. thats why it scares me. when the muslims on here are asked a question…they just avoid it. they cant contradict islam in any way. so how long does it take for someone who cant speak for themselves to be sucked into terroris, or islamic jihad, when it is in the Koran, that cant be spoken out against?

How many questions you have asked in this thread from Muslims? Please come by your bible NT only and by the Quran only. Then ask anything. Do not accuse Islam of anything that Jesus or any other prophet may be guilty of the same act. Welcome.

 

[coleraine]

How many questions you have asked in this thread from Muslims? Please come by your bible NT only and by the Quran only. Then ask anything. Do not accuse Islam of anything that Jesus or any other prophet may be guilty of the same act. Welcome.

what are you talking about? seriously what are you thinking right now? well…please answer one question. just one. muslim woman cant seem to do it…it is very simple. here it is: when you read a verse about forcing people to convert, or killing them if they dont agree…what goes through your mind? how about when mouhammed killed the jewish lady who tried to poison him? do you think these things are ok? do you disagree with them, or is there something im not getting? if you have any hope of continuing on here…you will answer. everyone wants to know about very important issues, but you guys cant seem to answer the simplest of questions.why?

 

[planten]

what are you talking about? seriously what are you thinking right now? well…please answer one question. just one. muslim woman cant seem to do it…it is very simple. here it is: when you read a verse about forcing people to convert, or killing them if they dont agree…what goes through your mind? how about when mouhammed killed the jewish lady who tried to poison him? do you think these things are ok? do you disagree with them, or is there something im not getting? if you have any hope of continuing on here…you will answer. everyone wants to know about very important issues, but you guys cant seem to answer the simplest of questions.why?

**You have not presented anything from the Quran. You are just supposing things and accusing too. You are supposing that there was any forced conversion. That is a lie. A white lie.

Are you a Jew/ Jewess? That lady who tried to poison the prophet and his friends was guilty of murder. She should have been killed. But she was forgiven. Even then you are not happy? I will answer any sensible questions, not heresays.**

 

[Nepenthe]

All I’m getting from this thread (as sadly, so many threads in the NCR forum) is ‘People are jerks.’

I already know that Jesus’ teaching boils down to ‘Don’t be jerks to each other.’

And that goes for Islam (different situation, time, and culture, but even so!) and Judaism, Buddhism, yes Hinduism, and so on.

So, let’s just be doing that shall we? I’m quite able and willing, and not even a theist. Sheesh.

 

[planten]

**DiL, My reply to your post #143,

Jesus is not god. 1. He never said he was god. 2. He never said that people should worship him. 3. He prayed to his God. 4. He died too.

Please consider the above four problems of christianity, including blasphemy, and reply why when he was in distress, he was praying in the garden before arrest? Does a god need to pray?

You people say that Jesus was a god and he died on the cross. Please explain why any god would die too?**

 

[planten]

I believe Mohammid was a pedophile and a false prophet. If I am considered a heratic by Muslims it is a title I will proudly wear. You have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you bother to come to a Christian thread and bash Christians? I can only imagine how long I would be allowed to stay on an Islamic forum with my statement above about Mohammid.

You are abusive. You have the right to believe what you like about Muhammad. But do not forget Mary Magd, the secret wife of Jesus, if you are so advanced in your faulty ideas. And I could mention the birth of Jesus too in doubtful circumstances. Would you like that? Please restrain yourself and keep to the good side of things.

 

[Nepenthe]

Oh, many gods have died and been reborn/risen, that’s nothing new. In fact, that’s an entire class of deity - the Dying God, who then brings renewed life to the people and is reawakened. Osiris, Attis, Dionysus…eh, I won’t make a long list because that’s really a whole new thread.

 

[dzheremi]

You have not presented anything from the Quran. You are just supposing things and accusing too. You are supposing that there was any forced conversion. That is a lie. A white lie.

So let me get this straight: You want this person to present proof from the Quran that Islam forces people to convert? Even if it is there (I don’t know if it uses those exact words, though there is all that stuff that says you are to fight those who don’t believe in Allah and the prophet, so that seems pro-forced conversion, in contradiction of other verses), you will not believe it. This is like the virginity issue all over again: Present Planten with verses from his Quran that show that a Muslim is to believe/do this, and he will find some way to disavow it all the while accusing Christians of the same thing with their own scriptures.

 

[planten]

Oh, many gods have died and been reborn/risen, that’s nothing new. In fact, that’s an entire class of deity - the Dying God, who then brings renewed life to the people and is reawakened. Osiris, Attis, Dionysus…eh, I won’t make a long list because that’s really a whole new thread.

Thanks for helping me and bringing in the pagan nature of christianity, in relation to the pagans of Rome and gods of the Greeks. I am thankful to you. Because we know that christianity went away from the good home land to the pagan land of greeks and Romans where all scripture was written by men, against the real teachings of Jesus.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

This thread is a great idea. .

 

[Nepenthe]

Oh, I wouldn’t say that, planten. More that early Christians were trying to make what they had to say more comprehensible for those from very different cultures by analogy! ‘See, yeah, in a way, Jesus was in some ways, to those of us from Hebrew culture, a little like this deity…but not really. Here, Let me show you the differences, if I have your attention…mhm, pretty neato huh? AND we have a really long history that leads into this too - wanna read it? It’s really cool!’

Can’t tell me Islam hasn’t had similar experiences, because they’re alive and well today. All the ‘People of the Book’ have had their moments of trying to stamp out the variants, but the message remains the same - as Bill and Ted would say, ‘Be excellent to one another!’

 

[swariffin]

**DiL, My reply to your post #143,

Jesus is not god. 1. He never said he was god. 2. He never said that people should worship him. 3. He prayed to his God. 4. He died too.

Please consider the above four problems of christianity, including blasphemy, and reply why when he was in distress, he was praying in the garden before arrest? Does a god need to pray?

You people say that Jesus was a god and he died on the cross. Please explain why any god would die too?**

Dear Planten,

Happy Eid el Fitr. May your fasting during the Ramadhan be rewarded.

There is no 4 problem of christianity. The problem lies in the illiterate man, trying to copy the teaching of Jesus through the wrong source. No wonder he spread all false things and believe about christianity. Remember the possibility (1) Mohammad did learn to read and write, (2) Mohammad knows christianity from the bishop of Rome, not from Waracca, a nestorian believer rather a true christian, (3) Muhammad take the codices taken from the existing church, rather than taking the apocriph writing (such as copying the psudo-mathew for writing the Mariam story, and claim it as direct words of God), (4) Completing his research that there are much more writings about christianity (the closest was in Alexandria), rather than depending on a limited source and claim it to be from God, (5) Write all of his words himself in one book, so that there is no need for a guy name Utsman to collect all the writings, and burn the original, (6) let the time make a test and not immediately claim his “works” is a dictation from God, so there is no mistake such as 6 or 8 days for the earth creation, mistake in the family of Mary the mother of Jesus, mistake of the Trinity (God, Mary and Jesus).

Well, after that, learning from the “false” things people do, do not make contradictory teaching such as (a) disallowing no object as a resemblance of God, but at the same time reducing God to a brick building that all prayer must be directed to it whereever you are in this world. (b) Teaching that a stone must be kissed, while other “stone” must be stoned and (c) teaching that pilgrimage is pure optional, not a necessity. Oh dear, many Indonesians sell their only property to go to Mecca, being a Hajj, and returning home being broke.

 

[Angelos]

**

Jesus is not god. 1. He never said he was god. 2. He never said that people should worship him. 3. He prayed to his God. 4. He died too.

Please consider the above four problems of christianity, including blasphemy, and reply why when he was in distress, he was praying in the garden before arrest? Does a god need to pray?

You people say that Jesus was a god and he died on the cross. Please explain why any god would die too?**

Jesus is not an ordinary prophet as Islam supposes and teaches.

**1) **Jesus is God. He made Himself equal to God when He called His own Father and likened Himself to God with regard to continuing the act of creation (John 5:17-18)

2) Jesus never said that He was nothing more than an ordinary prophet. Throughout His prophetic ministry He proved by word and action that He was superior to all the Biblical figures with regard to His personality (He called Himself the only begotten of the Father John 3:16).
**
3)** Jesus prayed because He also had perfect human nature after His incarnation.

4) Jesus died and rose on the third day. He was alive as God when His human body experienced death though (John 2:19).

Jesus could die not because He was God, but because He also had human nature.

According to Islam, Jesus cannot be an ordinary prophet.

1. In the Koran only Jesus was born miraculously with no human father.
2. In the Koran only Jesus is called God’s word.
3. In the Koran only Jesus is given the ability to create like Allah.
4. In the Koran only Jesus is assumed to God’s presence.

 

[planten]

planten;4294323:

You have not presented anything from the Quran. You are just supposing things and accusing too. You are supposing that there was any forced conversion. That is a lie. A white lie.

So let me get this straight: You want this person to present proof from the Quran that Islam forces people to convert? Even if it is there (I don’t know if it uses those exact words, though there is all that stuff that says you are to fight those who don’t believe in Allah and the prophet, so that seems pro-forced conversion, in contradiction of other verses), you will not believe it. This is like the virginity issue all over again: Present Planten with verses from his Quran that show that a Muslim is to believe/do this, and he will find some way to disavow it all the while accusing Christians of the same thing with their own scriptures.

**Thanks for helping me about the white lie. I wish you had sited some case to prove that there are forced conversions in Islam. I would again use the same term. That is a white lie. Unless you present something from the Quran allowing killing for conversion. There is no such thing in the Quran to kill any one if he does not convert.

About Philipines and Egypt, it is none of my business and you should also not use that as a lever. Please bring from the sacred book “Quran” if you have something clearly ordering the killing of peaceful non-muslims and forcing them to convert. Do not talk to me about criminals please. Welcome.**

 

[planten]

Dear Planten,

Happy Eid el Fitr. May your fasting during the Ramadhan be rewarded.

There is no 4 problem of christianity. The problem lies in the illiterate man, trying to copy the teaching of Jesus through the wrong source. No wonder he spread all false things and believe about christianity. Remember the possibility (1) Mohammad did learn to read and write, (2) Mohammad knows christianity from the bishop of Rome, not from Waracca, a nestorian believer rather a true christian, (3) Muhammad take the codices taken from the existing church, rather than taking the apocriph writing (such as copying the psudo-mathew for writing the Mariam story, and claim it as direct words of God), (4) Completing his research that there are much more writings about christianity (the closest was in Alexandria), rather than depending on a limited source and claim it to be from God, (5) Write all of his words himself in one book, so that there is no need for a guy name Utsman to collect all the writings, and burn the original, (6) let the time make a test and not immediately claim his “works” is a dictation from God, so there is no mistake such as 6 or 8 days for the earth creation, mistake in the family of Mary the mother of Jesus, mistake of the Trinity (God, Mary and Jesus).

Well, after that, learning from the “false” things people do, do not make contradictory teaching such as (a) disallowing no object as a resemblance of God, but at the same time reducing God to a brick building that all prayer must be directed to it whereever you are in this world. (b) Teaching that a stone must be kissed, while other “stone” must be stoned and (c) teaching that pilgrimage is pure optional, not a necessity. Oh dear, many Indonesians sell their only property to go to Mecca, being a Hajj, and returning home being broke.

** Thanks. You are shifting the subject from Jesus as god praying and dying on the cross, his prayer not being accepted, to Muhammad. There is no place here for Muhammad yet. We are discussing Jesus as a god who died. I feel that angelos has tried to reply to my questions in some thread. I will go an see to that now.

Thanks for good wishes for Ramadhan and Eid ul Fitr. I always join in the festivities of the christians.**

 

[planten]

Jesus is not an ordinary prophet as Islam supposes and teaches.

Islam does not call Jesus an ordinary prophet.

**1) **

 

[dzheremi]

Thanks for helping me about the white lie. I wish you had sited some case to prove that there are forced conversions in Islam.

Here are a few cases that came up when I searched google for “forced conversion to Islam”:

Pakistani Christian boy dies after forced conversion attempt by teacher, students at Islamic school

Forced conversion at gun point of two journalists kidnapped in Gaza

Forced conversion of Christian woman in Gaza

There are many more like these. That’s not my point. My point is that you say there is no compulsion in religion, but obviously the Muslims that say there is also think they are justified by the Quran. So who is right? You or them? Maybe both are right and are just looking at different verses. The wikipedia page has a list of “pro”-forced conversion and “anti”-forced conversion verses here.

I’m not trying to tell you that your religion mandates that you do this or that, but I do want you to honestly account for the fact that people who think they are being “good” Muslims do differ about this subject. And like everything else regarding Islam, I would not care about it at all if it weren’t for the fact that it is oppressing, killing, and enslaving people who are not even a part of it, or at least they wouldn’t be if Islam would come to some sort of consensus on what is okay and what is not.

Unless you present something from the Quran allowing killing for conversion. There is no such thing in the Quran to kill any one if he does not convert.

 

[dolphinlove]

Jesus is not an ordinary prophet as Islam supposes and teaches.

**1) **Jesus is God. He made Himself equal to God when He called His own Father and likened Himself to God with regard to continuing the act of creation (John 5:17-18)

2) Jesus never said that He was nothing more than an ordinary prophet. Throughout His prophetic ministry He proved by word and action that He was superior to all the Biblical figures with regard to His personality (He called Himself the only begotten of the Father John 3:16).
**
3)** Jesus prayed because He also had perfect human nature after His incarnation.

4) Jesus died and rose on the third day. He was alive as God when His human body experienced death though (John 2:19).

Jesus could die not because He was God, but because He also had human nature.

According to Islam, Jesus cannot be an ordinary prophet.

1. In the Koran only Jesus was born miraculously with no human father.
2. In the Koran only Jesus is called God’s word.
3. In the Koran only Jesus is given the ability to create like Allah.
4. In the Koran only Jesus is assumed to God’s presence.

You are so patient. Thank you for replying for me :curtsey:

 

[abucs]

Planten,

as we’ve said before, death is not the same as non existance to a theist.

To an atheist it is, but to a theist it is not.

God is not atoms, electrons, neutrons etc. To a theist man is these things plus a soul which is eternal. The incarnation is God’s Word come in the flesh. It is an expression of God come as man.

I think it is wrong to say God cannot become man and at the same time think of God as having the attributes of a man, for example, argueing He can only be in only one place at a time. (That is, cannot pray and he cannot die in our world).

Our view of God and creation is greater. He can be in more than one place at a time. Things like time and space are creations of his, and are boundaries for us, not Him. What is nonsense to you comes from the different way we see creation and what is possible.

For me, you see time and space as absolutes that bound God in which you argue God can’t do this and he can’t do that.