Islam & Muslim bashing thread?

[Booklover]

Hahaha. Christians who can’t eat or sleep without bashing Islam? Wow…that’s quite an ego you must have, Muslim Woman! Outside of this board and occasionally Arabic class (where we learn some Islamic greetings and other words, since Arabic is the language of Islam, since Muhammad’s Allah is an Arab), I spend about as much time thinking about Islam as I do thinking about Mormons, Zoroastrians, or Jains…that is, none at all. It is only because Islam is now seen (rightly or wrongly) as a security threat by much of the world that it is in such focus. That’s not a good thing, so I wouldn’t get too excited by it if I were you. If it were instead Hare Krishnas or Baha’is posting videos of themselves blowing up hotels or beheading “infidels”, you wouldn’t have a reason to start these threads in which you play up your victimhood.

Where’s your thread decrying the poor treatment of the Berbers, who were forcibly converted to Islam? Their primary religions prior to the coming of Islam were Christianity and Judaism. St. Augustine was a Berber, as was his mother, St. Monica. Queen Kahina (647-702), a Jewish Berber, is remembered among her people for her fight against the Muslim invasion of North Africa. You probably don’t talk about such things because it doesn’t make someone else’s religion look bad.

And I would start a “Christianity & Christians bashing” thread, but a) I realize how incredibly tacky that is, and b) that’s what nearly every thread in which Muslims are asked direct questions turns into anyway. So…why did you feel a need to add to it?

I’ll reiterate the point of my original post in this thread (lest you start wagging your finger at me, “You too! You added to it by posting that! GRRR! You hate Muslims SOOOO much!”), which is that individual Muslims are just as great or not great as individual Christians. False victimhood is a real turn-off, though. It’s almost as if you’re asking for people to not take you seriously. Why bother posting here at all if you’re so upset that not everyone in the world agrees with you? Welcome to life outside of the Allahosphere, where most of the time, people don’t care what you believe in one way or another. That’s not bashing…that’s equal-opportunity not caring, like I alluded to in the first paragraph of this post.

So what is it really about Christians here that makes you so upset? Is that we care enough about our own religion to try to correct your mistaken impressions of it that are given to you in your Qur’an and by your scholars, or is it that we don’t care enough about your religion to give you special privledges (i.e., never talking about it even in threads where it is the topic, never disagreeing with it even when our own religion demands that we do so, etc) because of your belief in it?

Either way: Grow up.

Excellent post! Muslims do indeed need to GROW UP and stop acting like spoiled brats who either claim victimhood or resort to violence at the slightest criticism of their religion or when their egos are deflated.

Vickie

 

[Frank_J]

HI Muslim Woman,

I grant your wish here…Since this is Islam & Muslims bashing thread. You will see the web site Winston statement that is listed below. Great man that serve a free people at one time.

danielpipes.org/comments/27711
WINSTON CHURCHILL ON ISLAM - IN 1899!

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia
in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many
countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods
of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet
rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the
next of its dignity and sanctity.

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as
his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must
delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased
to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid
qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social
development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists
in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and
proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa,
raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity
is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it
had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell
the civilization of ancient Rome."

-Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages
248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).
1 November 2005 - Australia

 

[Love_the_Lorax]

Beautifully put, wish I had said it myself!!!

Hahaha. Christians who can’t eat or sleep without bashing Islam? Wow…that’s quite an ego you must have, Muslim Woman! Outside of this board and occasionally Arabic class (where we learn some Islamic greetings and other words, since Arabic is the language of Islam, since Muhammad’s Allah is an Arab), I spend about as much time thinking about Islam as I do thinking about Mormons, Zoroastrians, or Jains…that is, none at all. It is only because Islam is now seen (rightly or wrongly) as a security threat by much of the world that it is in such focus. That’s not a good thing, so I wouldn’t get too excited by it if I were you. If it were instead Hare Krishnas or Baha’is posting videos of themselves blowing up hotels or beheading “infidels”, you wouldn’t have a reason to start these threads in which you play up your victimhood.

Where’s your thread decrying the poor treatment of the Berbers, who were forcibly converted to Islam? Their primary religions prior to the coming of Islam were Christianity and Judaism. St. Augustine was a Berber, as was his mother, St. Monica. Queen Kahina (647-702), a Jewish Berber, is remembered among her people for her fight against the Muslim invasion of North Africa. You probably don’t talk about such things because it doesn’t make someone else’s religion look bad.

And I would start a “Christianity & Christians bashing” thread, but a) I realize how incredibly tacky that is, and b) that’s what nearly every thread in which Muslims are asked direct questions turns into anyway. So…why did you feel a need to add to it?

I’ll reiterate the point of my original post in this thread (lest you start wagging your finger at me, “You too! You added to it by posting that! GRRR! You hate Muslims SOOOO much!”), which is that individual Muslims are just as great or not great as individual Christians. False victimhood is a real turn-off, though. It’s almost as if you’re asking for people to not take you seriously. Why bother posting here at all if you’re so upset that not everyone in the world agrees with you? Welcome to life outside of the Allahosphere, where most of the time, people don’t care what you believe in one way or another. That’s not bashing…that’s equal-opportunity not caring, like I alluded to in the first paragraph of this post.

So what is it really about Christians here that makes you so upset? Is that we care enough about our own religion to try to correct your mistaken impressions of it that are given to you in your Qur’an and by your scholars, or is it that we don’t care enough about your religion to give you special privledges (i.e., never talking about it even in threads where it is the topic, never disagreeing with it even when our own religion demands that we do so, etc) because of your belief in it?

Either way: Grow up.

 

[RobHom]

It is in India. And India is not a Muslim/Islamic country, BTW.

But it is happening in Muslim countries… maybe you should read something beyond what you subscribe to. Its not a current report but it makes the point as over the past 10 years it has gotten worse: alleanzacattolica.org/acs/acs_english/acs_index.htm

And as far Irish-British fight, both are Christians. What is their denomination BTW? Were they fighting for a candy/cake?

That was rather foolish on your part… it was a political issue that was disguised as a religious one after England invaded northern Ireland.

But what about “muslims”…sunni’s versus shiite’s killing each other off for how many centuries now? Oh, duh?

The LTTE fighters of Sri Lanka are not Muslims?

No it would seem that they are mostly Hindu. Your point?

Tibetens who protest against Chinease regime are not Muslims.

Again your point?

The country that gave real hard time to all residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not a Muslim.

But they did in fact attack the US at Pearl Harbor, and waged war on the entire Pacific area…and landed troops in the Aleutian Islands of Alaska. They were also allied with the Nazi’s, who incidentally were backed by Muslims in World War II. SO your point on that is pig offal.

Vietnam war was not waged by Muslim.

No it was “Democracy vs Communism”… You wouldn’t happen to be a muslim who embraces Communism?

Serbs who engaged in ethnic cleansing were not Muslims.

You need to study the history of that region very closely. While the ethnic cleansing by the Serbs was more than just wrong… go back in history and see what kind of “ethnic cleansing” muslims have done…as in “convert or die”.

Kashmir in not occipied by Muslims.

No, but the “wrongful” invaders are “muslims”. Read here: kashmir-information.com/ You need to get your cranium out of whatever hole in the ground it is in and get your facts right.

Palestine is not occupied by Muslims.

When the Jews first settled in Canaan…palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_first_jews.php there were no “muslims” anywhere on the planet. Islam is a man-made religion that popped up in what… the 7th Century AD? The Jews were in Palestine in 1300 BC. So what…you’re upset because you keep losing? Get over it and learn to live with your neighbors.

The country which supported Afghan “Mujahideen” to fight with Communist Russian invaders, was not Muslim.

Yep, it was the US…and it turns out that while we helped bring Communism to its knees…we made a mistake funding some crazies like Bin Laden. But what I find interesting is that islamics seemed to be more worried about nonsense than supporting their own mujahadeen…

Nelson Mendella is not a Muslim.

So? Your point is what?

All those Indian who had bloody fight with British during colonial period prior to 1947 were not Muslims.

Nope…Hindus for the most part.

Hitler and his whole crew were not Muslims.

Ahh, but here I’ve got you!! Your knowledge of history is badly tainted… the ARAB world, AKA: ISLAM SUPPORTED the Nazi’s during World War II!! Islamics were “partners” with the Nazi’s.

Mussoulini? Nipolean? Bloody Mary? Crusaders?

Inquisition? …this list is tooo loooooooong…

Yawn… Your point?

For all the errors of any group, there is none that is innocent or more guilty than the other…so we can play “tit-for-tat” til the sheep grow old and die…

I don’t particularly care one way or the other about Islam…other than the fact that they are constantly revising history, and are not a religion of peace… I will never become muslim. Never. While it is said that one should never say never… I will in this event.

If Islam is a “religion of peace”…why then have not the mullahs, and the everyday people of islam not risen up and crushed the islamic terrorists? Why do they support them with money and their bleating silence? Why do not everyday muslims turn away from the purveyors of death and destruction? Why are not muslims content to live in harmony with others?

I don’t hate Muslims… I don’t like Islam, and I don’t trust anyone who plays the victim while trying ardently to victimize anyone who does not bow to Islams rule of terror.

Muslim woman… I think less about muslims and islam than I do about last years cold. Get over yourself.

 

[Frank_J]

Hello

You may find this interesting.

youtube.com/watch?v=6W4dsvz5P-8&feature=related
Hitler and the Grand Mufti
youtube.com/watch?v=d0tdMoriQQg&feature=related
The NAZI mufti of Jerusalem
youtube.com/watch?v=HAq9PpCUgYU&feature=related
An Islamic Dr. in London Justifies Slaughtering
youtube.com/watch?v=gGpJC3f3UHk&feature=related
Palestinian Sheik: “Islam Will Rule U.S/U.K, Jews Are AIDS”

Have a great day

 

[RobHom]

Hello

You may find this interesting.

youtube.com/watch?v=6W4dsvz5P-8&feature=related
Hitler and the Grand Mufti
youtube.com/watch?v=d0tdMoriQQg&feature=related
The NAZI mufti of Jerusalem
youtube.com/watch?v=HAq9PpCUgYU&feature=related
An Islamic Dr. in London Justifies Slaughtering
youtube.com/watch?v=gGpJC3f3UHk&feature=related
Palestinian Sheik: “Islam Will Rule U.S/U.K, Jews Are AIDS”

Have a great day

And they wonder why we find their religion offensive?

 

[ralphinal]

While we are on the subject, so me a high profile, pacifistic Muslim leader or two. Modern day, say the last 75 years.

I can show you a bunch of non-Muslims who preached peace and love.

 

[Reuben_J]

As non-Muslim, I am quite disturbed about Allah through the Quran through Mohammad exhorting Muslims to smite the neck of those who do not believe in him.

I thought this command must be in the back of all Muslims’ mind, purring and reminding them to carry it out at every oppurtinity available.

I am not putting this on Muslims mouth but only quoting Mohammad himself. We do not have Jesus telling us to cut our enemy’s throat however.

I do not know whether this amount to Muslims bashing, but if it is, then there must be something in the Quran that are not subjected for discussion.

 

[Frank_J]

Hello,

I very glad that was useful in instruction, There is more I have lots of stuff to show you. Not one word is from a non Muslim. Its all of them on parade.

The hate you see here …
youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0C2QvqIlo&feature=related
Arabs brainwashed little girls to hate Jews

youtube.com/watch?v=36UUflGzWCA&feature=related
Jewish Conspiracy in a Saudi TV Show

Will lead to what you will see in these Youtube sites.

youtube.com/watch?v=yfce_C8GzdE&NR=1
Collapse Inside the World Trade Center! September 11, 2001

youtube.com/watch?v=2iGYVh7HZo8&NR=1
Unseen 9/11 Footage of Second Plane Hitting Tower

This the religion of peace, just to quote Pres George Bush.

Watch the history that has been written.

 

[Analyzer]

Why did they keep only Jesus there? What about the Holy Spirit? When did Christians supposedly tamper with the persons of the Triune God? How? Why? I am waiting for your evidence soon.

**
In the British newspaper the “Daily News” 25/6/84 under the heading “Shock survey of Anglican Bishops”** We read:

“More than half of England’s Anglican Bishops say that Christians are not obliged to believe that Jesus Christ was God, according to a survey published today. The pole of 31 of England’s 39 bishops shows that many of them think that Christ’s miracles, the virgin birth and the resurrection might not have happened exactly as described in the Bible. Only 11 of the bishops insisted that Christians must regard Christ as both God and man, while 19 said it was sufficient to regard Jesus as ‘God’s supreme agent’”

The Roman Catholic Church no longer believes Christ is the only single way to attain salvation:

"The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day*.” [330] Vatican’s New Catechism 841.*

Catholics are the largest group of Christians who also recently declare that even without Christ, you can be saved:

“This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.”[337] Vatican’s New Catechism 847.

Here are more Bible following groups who have non Protestant opinions:

Christian Science (Mary Baker Eddy):

"Jesus Christ is not God, as Jesus Himself declared, but is the Son of God."Science and health key to the scriptures …p.361.

The Christian Spiritual Alliance (Roy Eugene Davis): “Jesus was not the only begotten.” (Roy Eugene Davis, the Hidden teachings of Jesus Revealed 1968, p. 9.

The Christadelphians (John Thomas). “Jesus Christ did not exist as a person from eternity as one of the triune Godhead… He did not actually come into being until He was begotten of the Holy Spirit and born in Bethleherm” (*Christedelphian messenger no.46 the word made flesh p.3) *

Course in miracles-(Helen Schucman): Jesus is a man, who is…

cont

​

 

[Analyzer]

**

Course in miracles-(Helen Schucman): Jesus is a man, who is like all other men, and the Christ idea, which all men possess and must eventually demonstrated. He becomes the pattern for all of us. Jesus the man was used by the Christ to demonstrate the illusion of the world"

Eckankar (Paul Twitchell): "do not put Him [Jesus] in a special category, for all saviours and prophets who came to earth to help mankind did their part arid passed on to the glory of the heavenly kingdom … _ "74

The Foundation of Human understanding (Roy Masters): -you must not have any concepts of what Christ is like or God is like. it all must be an inward revelation process-" (Roy Masters (tape), -*The Mystery of Golgotha. ***

Jehovah’s Witnesses- Charles Taze Russell-“There is Scriptural evidence for concluding that Michael was the name of Jesus Christ before he left heaven and after his return.”* (WT 5/15/1969, p. 307) *

Lucis Trust (Alice Bailey): -The Incarnation, which is for popular Christianity synonymous with the historical birth and earthly life of Christ, is for the mystic not only this but also a Perpetual cosmic and personal process.- (*Alice Bailey, From Bethlehem to Calvary Lucis, 1976, P. 7. *

The Masonic Lodge: A former Mason reports ‘Freemasonry carefully excludes’ the Lord Jesus Christ from the lodge and chapter, repudiates His mediatorship, rejects His atonement, denies and disowns His Gospel, frowns upon His religion
and His church, ignores the Holy Spirit… *" Edmond Ronayne, The Masters Carpet
(Ezra Cook Company of chicago, 1879), p. 87.) *

Oneness Pentecostals"The Son of God existed from all eternity only as a plan in
the mind of God." (The Oneness of God, D. Bernard p.295) “the role of the son is temporary and not eternal” (p.105, 108)

Rosicrucianism (AMORO (H. Spencer Lewis): "Nowhere in the teachings and practices of Jesus can we find the least intimation that His great system was intended to bring salvation to the physical body of man. *( K SpencerLewis, The secret Doctrine of Jesus (San Jose, CA-- Supreme Grand Lodge of AMORC), pp.
186-87,189-91.) *

Theosophy (Helena. P Blavatsky): “Nowhere throughout the New Testament is Jesus found calling himself God, or anything higher than ‘a son of God,’ the son of a ‘Father,’ common to all.” *Helena Petrovna Blavatsky. The Secret Doctrine (India: Theosophical Publishing House 1971), vol. 5, p. 369n. *

The Unification Church (Sun Myung Moon): “It is a great error to think Jesus was God Himself. Jesus is no different from other men.” ( Young Oon Kin, Divine Principle and its Application (HSA-UWC, 1968), p. 75.) “We must understand that this (John 8.58) also does not signify that Jesus was God Himself .Jesus on earth was a man no different from US except for the fact that He was born without original sin.” *(Divine Principle p. 212). *

Unitarian Universalism: Unitarian Universalist minister Waldemar Argow states: "They [Unitarian/Universalists] do not regard him as a supernatural creature, the literal son of God who was miraculously sent to earth as part of an involved plan for the salvation of human souls.’, *(Waldemar Argow, Unitarian
Universalism-Some Questions Answered (pamphlet) (Boston, MA. Unitarian Universalism Assoc., nd.), p. 6.) *

Unity School of Christianity (Charles Fillmore), “Most of our religious beliefs are based on the [erroneous] idea that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.”* Unity (periodical), October, 1976, pp. 59-60.) *

In conclusion, we know there are many ways to interpret the Bible, yet one fact remains, Jesus never insisted that we believe in his blood to be saved nor did Jesus order us to call him God. Jesus never commanded anyone to worship him as the God of Abraham did.

Jesus asked us to believe that he was sent by God (John 5:24), which Muslims along with other Christians believe.

Technically, Muslims are the largest group of ‘followers of Christ’ (those who believe Christ was sent by God) approximately ONE AND A HALF [to TWO Billion as per BBC’s Fact-file on Islam], and the fastest growing Religion.

Kindly accept fellow Monotheists, and let God be the Judge in the End, treat fellow Monotheists as God would want, as brothers and sisters. We can learn from each other and grow spiritually from each other rather than be separated from each other.

Note: The contents of above two posts (with some additions) are taken from:
geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/cma.html

 

[Love_the_Lorax]

How depressing…

Hello,

I very glad that was useful in instruction, There is more I have lots of stuff to show you. Not one word is from a non Muslim. Its all of them on parade.

The hate you see here …
youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0C2QvqIlo&feature=related
Arabs brainwashed little girls to hate Jews

youtube.com/watch?v=36UUflGzWCA&feature=related
Jewish Conspiracy in a Saudi TV Show

Will lead to what you will see in these Youtube sites.

youtube.com/watch?v=yfce_C8GzdE&NR=1
Collapse Inside the World Trade Center! September 11, 2001

youtube.com/watch?v=2iGYVh7HZo8&NR=1
Unseen 9/11 Footage of Second Plane Hitting Tower

This the religion of peace, just to quote Pres George Bush.

Watch the history that has been written.

 

[abucs]

Analyser,

You have outlined several (very recent) cases of Christians moving from a truine idea of God to a non truine idea.

We would also point to the majority Christian population in the middle east in the 7th century who also then incorrectly moved from the non truine idea of God when Islam invaded. We have historical quotes, histories and archeological proof that this happened.

But you were asked i believe to give proof that Christians moved (on mass) from a non truine idea to a truine idea sometime before Islam.

You were asked to do this, as a proof of what Islam declares about the history of Christianity. You haven’t given any proof so far. I would also like to hear your claims backed up with evidence.
Otherwise Islam stands on its own assertions, without proof and looks to many of us as made up inventions several centuries after the facts by people who had no idea of what happened.

Also you quote the Catholic Church and then in your own words say that they say there is salvation WITHOUT Christ. This is not what was said. And this is not what was meant. It basically says for those people who are ignorant of Christ, or who have been misled by later teachers, Christ does not automatically exclude them from salvation but MAY work in them to acheive the same end.

When the Catholic Church / Pope claims muslims may worship the One true God, it/he is saying that basically you have the wrong idea of that God - but it may not be your fault. And that if you accept the One God (Father , Son and Spirit) in love even if you do not recognise God as such, his love is open to all despite ignorances that have arrived through later teachers that were then passed down as fact in the Koran and beleived as such by later muslims, unfortunately even to this day.

You also assert ONE FACT, that Jesus never claims that we are saved through his blood nor to call him God. that is your assertions again Analyser - not ours.

 

[MDK]

Salaam/peace

this is not a Q & A thread. This is for those Christians who can’t eat & sleep without bashing Islam .

If you have any question , pl. ask here

Ask about Islam

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=264987

Is illustrating truth about Islam the same as bashing? If the truth is that unfavorable to Islam, then perhaps one might consider asking themselves why that would be…

As for me, I spend a lot of time learning about the beauty and splendor of God through the Church built by the Son of God. Islam is useless in my quest to know and love God.

 

[dzheremi]

Course in miracles-(Helen Schucman): Jesus is a man, who is like all other men, and the Christ idea, which all men possess and must eventually demonstrated. He becomes the pattern for all of us. Jesus the man was used by the Christ to demonstrate the illusion of the world"

Eckankar (Paul Twitchell): "do not put Him [Jesus] in a special category, for all saviours and prophets who came to earth to help mankind did their part arid passed on to the glory of the heavenly kingdom … _ "74

The Foundation of Human understanding (Roy Masters): -you must not have any concepts of what Christ is like or God is like. it all must be an inward revelation process-" (Roy Masters (tape), -*The Mystery of Golgotha. *

Jehovah’s Witnesses- Charles Taze Russell-“There is Scriptural evidence for concluding that Michael was the name of Jesus Christ before he left heaven and after his return.”* (WT 5/15/1969, p. 307) *

Lucis Trust (Alice Bailey): -The Incarnation, which is for popular Christianity synonymous with the historical birth and earthly life of Christ, is for the mystic not only this but also a Perpetual cosmic and personal process.- (*Alice Bailey, From Bethlehem to Calvary Lucis, 1976, P. 7. *

The Masonic Lodge: A former Mason reports ‘Freemasonry carefully excludes’ the Lord Jesus Christ from the lodge and chapter, repudiates His mediatorship, rejects His atonement, denies and disowns His Gospel, frowns upon His religion
and His church, ignores the Holy Spirit… *" Edmond Ronayne, The Masters Carpet
(Ezra Cook Company of chicago, 1879), p. 87.) *

Oneness Pentecostals"The Son of God existed from all eternity only as a plan in
the mind of God." (The Oneness of God, D. Bernard p.295) “the role of the son is temporary and not eternal” (p.105, 108)

Rosicrucianism (AMORO (H. Spencer Lewis): "Nowhere in the teachings and practices of Jesus can we find the least intimation that His great system was intended to bring salvation to the physical body of man. *( K SpencerLewis, The secret Doctrine of Jesus (San Jose, CA-- Supreme Grand Lodge of AMORC), pp.
186-87,189-91.) *

Theosophy (Helena. P Blavatsky): “Nowhere throughout the New Testament is Jesus found calling himself God, or anything higher than ‘a son of God,’ the son of a ‘Father,’ common to all.” *Helena Petrovna Blavatsky. The Secret Doctrine (India: Theosophical Publishing House 1971), vol. 5, p. 369n. *

The Unification Church (Sun Myung Moon): “It is a great error to think Jesus was God Himself. Jesus is no different from other men.” ( Young Oon Kin, Divine Principle and its Application (HSA-UWC, 1968), p. 75.) “We must understand that this (John 8.58) also does not signify that Jesus was God Himself .Jesus on earth was a man no different from US except for the fact that He was born without original sin.” *(Divine Principle p. 212). *

Unitarian Universalism: Unitarian Universalist minister Waldemar Argow states: "They [Unitarian/Universalists] do not regard him as a supernatural creature, the literal son of God who was miraculously sent to earth as part of an involved plan for the salvation of human souls.’, *(Waldemar Argow, Unitarian
Universalism-Some Questions Answered (pamphlet) (Boston, MA. Unitarian Universalism Assoc., nd.), p. 6.) *

Unity School of Christianity (Charles Fillmore), “Most of our religious beliefs are based on the [erroneous] idea that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.”* Unity (periodical), October, 1976, pp. 59-60.) *[/INDENT]

In conclusion, we know there are many ways to interpret the Bible, yet one fact remains, Jesus never insisted that we believe in his blood to be saved nor did Jesus order us to call him God. Jesus never commanded anyone to worship him as the God of Abraham did.

Jesus asked us to believe that he was sent by God (John 5:24), which Muslims along with other Christians believe.

Technically, Muslims are the largest group of ‘followers of Christ’ (those who believe Christ was sent by God) approximately ONE AND A HALF [to TWO Billion as per BBC’s Fact-file on Islam], and the fastest growing Religion.

Kindly accept fellow Monotheists, and let God be the Judge in the End, treat fellow Monotheists as God would want, as brothers and sisters. We can learn from each other and grow spiritually from each other rather than be separated from each other.

What is this all about? We should accept heretics and cultists as fellow monotheists even though they aren’t, just because you want to make us feel bad about not accepting your religion? Who cares about the relative growth of Islam? The whole world could follow it and it would still be false. You should know monotheism is not relative. We are right and you are not, or you are right and we are not. There’s no in between, since Christianity and Islam are mutually exclusive. Would I be right to ask you to accept Christians as fellow monotheists? What would either of our communities then make of the verses in the Qur’an that insist Christians are not monotheists? What would you make of the verse in the Bible (Galatians 1:8) that tells us that we are not to accept any gospel other than than this, even if sent from an angel from heaven? (Meaning that we cannot accept the Quran under any circumstances)

 

[Angelos]

**
In the British newspaper the “Daily News” 25/6/84 under the heading “Shock survey of Anglican Bishops”** We read:

“More than half of England’s Anglican Bishops say that Christians are not obliged to believe that Jesus Christ was God, according to a survey published today. The pole of 31 of England’s 39 bishops shows that many of them think that Christ’s miracles, the virgin birth and the resurrection might not have happened exactly as described in the Bible. Only 11 of the bishops insisted that Christians must regard Christ as both God and man, while 19 said it was sufficient to regard Jesus as ‘God’s supreme agent’”

The Roman Catholic Church no longer believes Christ is the only single way to attain salvation:

"The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day*.” [330] Vatican’s New Catechism 841.*

Catholics are the largest group of Christians who also recently declare that even without Christ, you can be saved:

“This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.”[337] Vatican’s New Catechism 847.

Here are more Bible following groups who have non Protestant opinions:

Christian Science (Mary Baker Eddy):

"Jesus Christ is not God, as Jesus Himself declared, but is the Son of God."Science and health key to the scriptures …p.361.

The Christian Spiritual Alliance (Roy Eugene Davis): “Jesus was not the only begotten.” (Roy Eugene Davis, the Hidden teachings of Jesus Revealed 1968, p. 9.

The Christadelphians (John Thomas). “Jesus Christ did not exist as a person from eternity as one of the triune Godhead… He did not actually come into being until He was begotten of the Holy Spirit and born in Bethleherm” (*Christedelphian messenger no.46 the word made flesh p.3) *

Course in miracles-(Helen Schucman): Jesus is a man, who is…

cont

​

Thanks for wasting your time by writing this totally irrelevant response to my question.

I am asking you to prove that the Church of Christ (traditional and mainstream Christianity rather than some excommunicated heretic groups) believed in a different Trinity at the time of or prior to Mohammad than she believes today.

Planten’s allegations cannot be proven by how some individuals or heretic groups approach the Trinitarian doctrine TODAY! Please read my posts better to understand my request and my challenge.

 

[Angelos]

**

Course in miracles-(Helen Schucman): Jesus is a man, who is like all other men, and the Christ idea, which all men possess and must eventually demonstrated. He becomes the pattern for all of us. Jesus the man was used by the Christ to demonstrate the illusion of the world"

Eckankar (Paul Twitchell): "do not put Him [Jesus] in a special category, for all saviours and prophets who came to earth to help mankind did their part arid passed on to the glory of the heavenly kingdom … _ "74

The Foundation of Human understanding (Roy Masters): -you must not have any concepts of what Christ is like or God is like. it all must be an inward revelation process-" (Roy Masters (tape), -*The Mystery of Golgotha. ***

Jehovah’s Witnesses- Charles Taze Russell-“There is Scriptural evidence for concluding that Michael was the name of Jesus Christ before he left heaven and after his return.”* (WT 5/15/1969, p. 307) *

Lucis Trust (Alice Bailey): -The Incarnation, which is for popular Christianity synonymous with the historical birth and earthly life of Christ, is for the mystic not only this but also a Perpetual cosmic and personal process.- (*Alice Bailey, From Bethlehem to Calvary Lucis, 1976, P. 7. *

The Masonic Lodge: A former Mason reports ‘Freemasonry carefully excludes’ the Lord Jesus Christ from the lodge and chapter, repudiates His mediatorship, rejects His atonement, denies and disowns His Gospel, frowns upon His religion
and His church, ignores the Holy Spirit… *" Edmond Ronayne, The Masters Carpet
(Ezra Cook Company of chicago, 1879), p. 87.) *

Oneness Pentecostals"The Son of God existed from all eternity only as a plan in
the mind of God." (The Oneness of God, D. Bernard p.295) “the role of the son is temporary and not eternal” (p.105, 108)

Rosicrucianism (AMORO (H. Spencer Lewis): "Nowhere in the teachings and practices of Jesus can we find the least intimation that His great system was intended to bring salvation to the physical body of man. *( K SpencerLewis, The secret Doctrine of Jesus (San Jose, CA-- Supreme Grand Lodge of AMORC), pp.
186-87,189-91.) *

Theosophy (Helena. P Blavatsky): “Nowhere throughout the New Testament is Jesus found calling himself God, or anything higher than ‘a son of God,’ the son of a ‘Father,’ common to all.” *Helena Petrovna Blavatsky. The Secret Doctrine (India: Theosophical Publishing House 1971), vol. 5, p. 369n. *

The Unification Church (Sun Myung Moon): “It is a great error to think Jesus was God Himself. Jesus is no different from other men.” ( Young Oon Kin, Divine Principle and its Application (HSA-UWC, 1968), p. 75.) “We must understand that this (John 8.58) also does not signify that Jesus was God Himself .Jesus on earth was a man no different from US except for the fact that He was born without original sin.” *(Divine Principle p. 212). *

Unitarian Universalism: Unitarian Universalist minister Waldemar Argow states: "They [Unitarian/Universalists] do not regard him as a supernatural creature, the literal son of God who was miraculously sent to earth as part of an involved plan for the salvation of human souls.’, *(Waldemar Argow, Unitarian
Universalism-Some Questions Answered (pamphlet) (Boston, MA. Unitarian Universalism Assoc., nd.), p. 6.) *

Unity School of Christianity (Charles Fillmore), “Most of our religious beliefs are based on the [erroneous] idea that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.”* Unity (periodical), October, 1976, pp. 59-60.) *

In conclusion, we know there are many ways to interpret the Bible, yet one fact remains, Jesus never insisted that we believe in his blood to be saved nor did Jesus order us to call him God. Jesus never commanded anyone to worship him as the God of Abraham did.

Jesus asked us to believe that he was sent by God (John 5:24), which Muslims along with other Christians believe.

Technically, Muslims are the largest group of ‘followers of Christ’ (those who believe Christ was sent by God) approximately ONE AND A HALF [to TWO Billion as per BBC’s Fact-file on Islam], and the fastest growing Religion.

Kindly accept fellow Monotheists, and let God be the Judge in the End, treat fellow Monotheists as God would want, as brothers and sisters. We can learn from each other and grow spiritually from each other rather than be separated from each other.

Note: The contents of above two posts (with some additions) are taken from:
geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/cma.html

Why don’t you kindly accept that Bahaullah is the last messenger of Allah and believe in his book since his ideology was born of Islam?

What do you think about many Islamic sects and groups that have been considered heretic by mainstream and traditional Islam? What about the Muslims that believe in a Trinitarian God whose three distinct but equal persons are claimed to be Allah, Mohammad, and Ali??? How do you view those Muslims?

 

[cathopologist]

Why don’t you kindly accept that Bahaullah is the last messenger of Allah and believe in his book since his ideology was born of Islam?

What do you think about many Islamic sects and groups that have been considered heretic by mainstream and traditional Islam? What about the Muslims that believe in a Trinitarian God whose three distinct but equal persons are claimed to be Allah, Mohammad, and Ali??? How do you view those Muslims?

Ooooh how much they loathe the Bahais, Druze, Ahmadiyyas, etc. But i think it would be a fair assumption to include them as “Islamic schools of thoughts”.

 

[Angelos]

Ooooh how much they loathe the Bahais, Druze, Ahmadiyyas, etc. But i think it would be a fair assumption to include them as “Islamic schools of thoughts”.

I hope Analyser is aware of those “Islamic” groups. Besides, most of his posts make me think that he is a follower of Ahmadiyya like Planten.

 

[ralphinal]

While we are on the subject, so me a high profile, pacifistic Muslim leader or two. Modern day, say the last 75 years.

I can show you a bunch of non-Muslims who preached peace and love.

Where are they? Where are the high profile, Muslim pacifists?