I assume you’re talking about Joseph as the “father” of Jesus and not about God the Father.
Just to emphasize: St. Joseph, according to tradition, was content to live as a widow. Only when chosen by a divine sign (which is recorded in the Quran, btw. and no, not like Muhammad’s convenient verse about his son’s wife), did he take the Theotokos as his wife, to act as her protector.
I am afraid your nice post, like many other posts, will eventually fall on deaf ears. When the person we are responding to is dear planten, there is no other possibility.Since I doubt Planten can, and I don’t want error to be spread:
Btw, I just so happened to come across a Muslim catechism today, which asks “How many wives did the prophet have?”(12) “How many concubines did he have?” And then a discussion about his Jaryah Maryam, and then about how to number the wives since there is uncertainty about which were married and which were concubines etc. Quite edifying reading for the Muslim youth.
- Jesus’ Father never had a wife, because God the Father, His Father, is Spirit.
- Jesus’ step-father, according to the Protoevengelium of James, the (step-)Brother-of-God, first patriarch of Jerusalem, the Panerion of Ephiphanious (of Salamis, but from Palestine: the pertinent parts are from his letters to the Christians of Arabia), etc. was a widower, i.e. his wife DIED. He would have remained so, having had children (who are the ones mentioned in the Gospel) but he was chosen to be the support of the Holy Theotokos (marrying a girl off was how she was provided for in those days). St. Joseph had only two wives, he had only one and was faithful to her until her death, and was faithful and chaste to his second wife, the Holy Theotokos.
If you know 1/10th of the history that you claim to know, you would be aware of the fact that all the nonsensical claims made by Hitler and his lackeys was for the purposes of propaganda and manipulation of the German people… and that’s all. Hitler was as Catholic as Stalin was.
Your cynicism is duly noted, however your slant on reality where the causes of the holocaust or rather your grip on the causes is tenuous at best.
Not necessarily true. Atheism’s doctrines are clear… “They are the anti-thesis of the Believer”. Granted there are people who are atheists who are decent and moral people, but the opposite is equally true.
Your statement is about right… If you consider the numbers of people slaughtered by Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and a few others, they will exceed the numbers of those killed otherwise…probably by hundreds of millions.
Me thinkest thou truly correct!I am afraid your nice post, like many other posts, will eventually fall on deaf ears. When the person we are responding to is dear planten, there is no other possibility.
I have yet to see anything about Islam that has to do with worshiping God and living according to his Will.**I am sure of what I said. My Quran does not say any bad word about Moses or David or Soloman or Jesus or Mary. It is all in your bible and the bible of your predecessors (which is a part and parcel of your bible, tied up with it permanently against the wishes of Jesus).
Planten, I must remind you that I know a lot about Islam and its scripture, being a former Muslim. I also know that the Koran presents Adam and David, two supposed messengers of Islam, as sinful people. Lot, another so-called preacher of Islam, is said to be a man who was ready to give his daughters to the aggressive male members of his community. You cannot deny any of these tenets.
Interestingly, the Koran has no law when compared to the detailed precepts of the Tanakh. The authors of the Koran realised that they had to devise some rules for social life only after Mohammad’s migration to Medinah and the establishment of the Islamic state. The Surahs of the Mecca period contain no divine law! The Islamic law was added into the Koran in a hurry and lacked the notion of consistency. This is why the rules in the Koran are mostly arbitrary (forbidding pork, praising camel).
You are either kidding or deliberately playing the ignorant to defend the weak points of Islam. Christianity blesses the notion of matrimony and considers the marital bond a sacrament instituted by Christ Himself.
This is not only irrelevant to the topic of this thread, but also historically and theologically untrue. Repeating the mistakes of Mohammad’s scribes about basic Christian tenets will lead you nowhere.
Joseph the carpenter was single when he married Mary. Thus, this example has nothing to do with our discussion.
The man is allowed to re-marry since the marital bond is dissolved by the death of one of the parties. Don’t you really know this?
was so Excellent !! I wish I could have said it just as well as you, but you did Fantastic. Oh my goodness! Did you even read this?!
Since I doubt Planten can, and I don’t want error to be spread:
Btw, I just so happened to come across a Muslim catechism today, which asks “How many wives did the prophet have?”(12) “How many concubines did he have?” And then a discussion about his Jaryah Maryam, and then about how to number the wives since there is uncertainty about which were married and which were concubines etc. Quite edifying reading for the Muslim youth.
- Jesus’ Father never had a wife, because God the Father, His Father, is Spirit.
- Jesus’ step-father, according to the Protoevengelium of James, the (step-)Brother-of-God, first patriarch of Jerusalem, the Panerion of Ephiphanious (of Salamis, but from Palestine: the pertinent parts are from his letters to the Christians of Arabia), etc. was a widower, i.e. his wife DIED. He would have remained so, having had children (who are the ones mentioned in the Gospel) but he was chosen to be the support of the Holy Theotokos (marrying a girl off was how she was provided for in those days). St. Joseph had only two wives, he had only one and was faithful to her until her death, and was faithful and chaste to his second wife, the Holy Theotokos.
Thanks! Praise the Lord.To:Angelos !
Your response to planten
I applaud your words and your thought !!
Your response is highly being praised by your friends. You may be celebrating. So I do not want to let you down. But I am looking for some substance in your post and I find nothing there.
You sure are right. Now your are in praise of the Jewish law which you have abondoned, which means nothing to you. WE do not have useless descriptions of the length of walls and drapings and pots and pans in the Quran. A religious book is not for teaching thos ethings.
If there was anything useful in the NT then you should have quoted it in reply. But since there was none (no guidance) you thought it better to accuse Islam and do away with the truth.
Yes, it has become irrelevant because it was a difficult matter. At least you should have admitted that as true even if you had no answer.
Yes, I hope that is true. May be his first wife had died or he divorced her, he was lucky to have Mary as a wife (?). Was she really his wife? You have so many problems explaining your religion. You have unmarried fathers too. But then you say it is not according to the topic.
**I am happy to know that. I did not know that before. But you have such peculiar notions, unreal terminology (terms) about the son and father that it is not always possible to believe that you are really allowing a man ( a widower) to remarry. I culd not expect it. So now I will ask you to prove this allowance from your book (bible NT) that a man is allowed to remarry if his wife had died.The man is allowed to re-marry since the marital bond is dissolved by the death of one of the parties. Don’t you really know this?
Now you are changing your arguments again and coming to blame the Bible for having the same narratives as the ones in the Koran.
You are wrong from the start: The Mosaic Law means a lot to me. The Law is still holy and accurate. It was given by the same God, in whom I believe, to the nation of Israel and emphasised the causes and consequences of sin. However, Jesus, as the Savior, came not to punish and kill, but to forgive and give life.
Let me repeat: Christianity considers matrimony a sacrament instituted by Christ Himself. NT depicts Jesus as the bridegroom that is forever faithful to His bride (the Church). Paul frequently refers to the notion of marriage in his epistles and asks Christian couples to respect the holiness of marital bond.
I do not have the habit of accepting lies and baseless allegations as truth whereas you do not have the habit of providing evidence for your faulty assertions.
I still fail to see how Joseph’s marriage with Mary is related to the topic of this thread. God wanted Joseph to take Mary as his wife not because they could have sex and procreate, but because Mary could be protected from the slanders and accusations of the Israelietes knowing Her. What’s wrong with that? If you are not pleased with God’s plans for Mary, that is your problem.
What is so peculiar about our notions related to the father and son that baffles you?
Planten, is this really so hard to understand??
Now to the unmarried and to widows, I say: it is a good thing for them to remain as they are, as I do,
Mao, I have seen lately, has been divinized in Chinese folk religion. So, what about an atheist god?If you know 1/10th of the history that you claim to know, you would be aware of the fact that all the nonsensical claims made by Hitler and his lackeys was for the purposes of propaganda and manipulation of the German people… and that’s all. Hitler was as Catholic as Stalin was.
Your cynicism is duly noted, however your slant on reality where the causes of the holocaust or rather your grip on the causes is tenuous at best.
Hitler needed a demon, so he created one to be “exorcised” by his very own flavor of religion. He wanted to create the “super-race”…Aryans… and that meant that all others had to be eliminated… It had nothing to do with God. It was all driven by the madness of a “megalomaniacal tyrant” and his lackeys.
Not necessarily true. Atheism’s doctrines are clear… “They are the anti-thesis of the Believer”. Granted there are people who are atheists who are decent and moral people, but the opposite is equally true.
Your statement is about right… If you consider the numbers of people slaughtered by Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and a few others, they will exceed the numbers of those killed otherwise…probably by hundreds of millions.
You really shouldn’t show up at a gunfight with a blunt knife.
I’d like to see that. Got a video link?
** Our depiction of prophets is the best in Quran, nothing dirty like your old edition, old wine (OT). Quran has described Lot correctly. You just tried to object to something. That was your mistake.**Now you are changing your arguments again and coming to blame the Bible for having the same narratives as the ones in the Koran.
I am not interested in Lot’s reason for doing so. What I want to underline is that your Koran agrees with the Biblical account about Lot’s action although your religion regards him as one of the prophets: perfect and sinless role model.
I know the Mosaic law means nothing to you. You (Christians) have disowned that law which Jesus came to fulfil. Jesus followed that law but you on some pretext got rid of it because it was a difficult job.
They mean nothing, about curtains and gold and pots and pans. Surely that increases the size of the bible. If you do not put your new wine (NT) with the old wine (OT) then your bible becomes very small. And if the extra material (letters and epistles) are taken out of the NT then your bible becomes even more smaller in size. Then remain the only four gospels. They are not four really. They are just one and same thing. Hardly any spiritual matter in them.
**Again your funny ideas. First the matter of unreal son (Jesus). Now the bridegroom (Jesus) married to the bride (Church). Who would believe you? In that way you can say anything and everything irrational. All supposed mysteries.
I had asked you to please bring something from your book. Do not advocate for the book (NT). But you had nothing from the book. There was no allegation. I was only asking to prove by the book.
**I did not question that at all. But Joseph was not her real husband. Or he was a namesake husband. That is again unreal husband. So everything you have is unreal. Jesus the son is also unreal. Everybody knows it.
** Eastern or western, it does not matter to me. Surely the eastern must be different to the western church. And the northern may be different to the southern church. You have such systems. In Islam there is no east or west.The contract of marriage, like all other contracts, is dissolved when one of the parties dies.
I am Eastern Orthodox