Islam

[filipe]

Ave Maria!
I have talked with a lot of Coptic Orthodoxes about Islam and they seem to think that it’s an evil religion. But when I read Nostra Aetate it’s seems to be a religion of peace.
Is Islam evil or good?

Avé Maria

On my very simplistic perspective and as a Christian, I cannot accept that islam/muslims prays to same god as Christians and Jews. You could say, Islam is not in favour of Jesus Christ as Lord, hence, it is a anti-christ movement. My anser to question: evil.

I will not rationalize or try to prove, faith is a mistery and gift from God. And this is dogma for me.

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Listen to Our Lady of Fatima motherly message.

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[noobio]

Bearing in mind that the aim of this thread is to examine whether Islam is good or evil, then I think the discussion is heading in a different direction of late.

I think that I have said all that I wish to say on the topic of Islam being good in the eyes of the Lord (at least for the time being) and so I am withdrawing from this thread.

Fine, lets discuss that then. I believe Islam is evil because it is created by a false prophet. Since, it is guided by a false prophet, it will lead people away from the true God,this makes it evil.

-My reason for thinking Mohammad is a false prophet is that, he could not be found in our scripture as he said so in the Qur’an.

• Mohammad preached a very unlikely message, that Christ did not die on the cross. There is sources outside of the bible that claim Christ died. Mohammad came 600 years later and told us the belief in the crucifixion is wrong, and Allah deceived everyone.
• There is no reason to think Mohammad is a prophet, is there any miracles that are recorded in the Qur’an that Mohammad preformed ?, did he make any predictions that came true ?

-You said, that if a religion has the 10 commandments they are good. Well, the Jews already had that, so why was Islam necessary ? So, Mohammad made a new religion, which was not the Jewish one, and he stole the commandments.

 

[arabic_catholic]

Fine, lets discuss that then. I believe Islam is evil because it is created by a false prophet. Since, it is guided by a false prophet, it will lead people away from the true God,this makes it evil.

-My reason for thinking Mohammad is a false prophet is that, he could not be found in our scripture as he said so in the Qur’an.

• Mohammad preached a very unlikely message, that Christ did not die on the cross. There is sources outside of the bible that claim Christ died. Mohammad came 600 years later and told us the belief in the crucifixion is wrong, and Allah deceived everyone.
• There is no reason to think Mohammad is a prophet, is there any miracles that are recorded in the Qur’an that Mohammad preformed ?, did he make any predictions that came true ?

-You said, that if a religion has the 10 commandments they are good. Well, the Jews already had that, so why was Islam necessary ? So, Mohammad made a new religion, which was not the Jewish one, and he stole the commandments.

Actually , you can find in the Quran stories stolen from the church traditions such as the seven sleepers(whom they believed that Jesus was crucified!! ) , another one is Jesus created a bird from clay which we can find the same story in the Infancy gospel (which is not a scripture and written centuries after Jesus ascended to heaven) which prove that the author of the quran stole this from unorthodox Christianity which Mohamed priest warqa was !

and luqman (who is mention in the Quran) his story was stolen from a pagan guy called Ahiqar who his words was translated to arabic which were called wisdom of luqman!

 

[trdchubi]

Actually , you can find in the Quran stories stolen from the church traditions such as the seven sleepers(whom they believed that Jesus was crucified!! ) , another one is Jesus created a bird from clay which we can find the same story in the Infancy gospel (which is not a scripture and written centuries after Jesus ascended to heaven) which prove that the author of the quran stole this from unorthodox Christianity which Mohamed priest warqa was !

and luqman (who is mention in the Quran) his story was stolen from a pagan guy called Ahiqar who his words was translated to arabic which were called wisdom of luqman!

Oh yes, the Gnostic gospels of the…quran

 

[dolphinlove]

I see hamba is up to his usual tricks of spurting the same guff he has for the last goodness knows how many years and trying to derail the thread. The topic is islam, not Jesus, stick to the topic.
You have for years been shown the answer to these quotes you bring up, and have each time never been able to prove the bible scriptures are wrong… give up.

 

[504Katrin]

The greater danger in Europe I feel is anti-religious sentiment, atheism and religious indifference.

no kidding! No to get away from the topic that belongs to our fellow Muslim bretheren, but you’ve hit the nail on the head. I’m over here in Europe and I’ve heard terrible things, even from priests and diacons.

• There was a priest who told me during confession that our Mother Mary wasn’t that important and that masturbation was okay I got so mad in the confessional that I had to go back to confession later and confess my confession
• talked to a diacon who told me that he didn’t believe in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist
• have heard that all that matters was that we “rejoice in the things we do”. This was the answer to my statement that we should fast an hour prior to mass.

Things like that. I feel very alone here and misunderstood. At work they think that I’m a weirdo because I often go over to the church to pray the rosary during lunch time

 

[GaryTaylor]

Actually , you can find in the Quran stories stolen from the church traditions such as the seven sleepers(whom they believed that Jesus was crucified!! ) , another one is Jesus created a bird from clay which we can find the same story in the Infancy gospel (which is not a scripture and written centuries after Jesus ascended to heaven) which prove that the author of the quran stole this from unorthodox Christianity which Mohamed priest warqa was !

and luqman (who is mention in the Quran) his story was stolen from a pagan guy called Ahiqar who his words was translated to arabic which were called wisdom of luqman!

Perfect example is the Annunciation of Mary. Since Mohammad couldn’t read or write the result from memory arrives as it does in the Quran, butchered plagiarism. Does it “not” appear to be taken taken directly from the NT-Bible?

 

[noobio]

Actually , you can find in the Quran stories stolen from the church traditions such as the seven sleepers(whom they believed that Jesus was crucified!! ) , another one is Jesus created a bird from clay which we can find the same story in the Infancy gospel (which is not a scripture and written centuries after Jesus ascended to heaven) which prove that the author of the quran stole this from unorthodox Christianity which Mohamed priest warqa was !

and luqman (who is mention in the Quran) his story was stolen from a pagan guy called Ahiqar who his words was translated to arabic which were called wisdom of luqman!

I never knew this, thanks for the information.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I never knew this, thanks for the information.

Oh for sure, my brother next time you go to the Library compare the Annunciation in the Bible to the Quran with Mary.

Had this happened in this day and age it would have wound up in court with a lawsuit.

God Bless, Gary

 

[hamba2han]

Fine, lets discuss that then. I believe Islam is evil because it is created by a false prophet. Since, it is guided by a false prophet, it will lead people away from the true God,this makes it evil.

-My reason for thinking Mohammad is a false prophet is that, he could not be found in our scripture as he said so in the Qur’an.

• Mohammad preached a very unlikely message, that Christ did not die on the cross. There is sources outside of the bible that claim Christ died. Mohammad came 600 years later and told us the belief in the crucifixion is wrong, and Allah deceived everyone.
• There is no reason to think Mohammad is a prophet, is there any miracles that are recorded in the Qur’an that Mohammad preformed ?, did he make any predictions that came true ?

-You said, that if a religion has the 10 commandments they are good. Well, the Jews already had that, so why was Islam necessary ? So, Mohammad made a new religion, which was not the Jewish one, and he stole the commandments.

Just having the Ten Commandments in one’s scriptures will not do anyone any good because one has to actually obey the Commandments in order to please the Lord.

The Qur’an declares that Jews and Christians have taken their own rabbis and monks as their lords – “They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no God save Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!” … (At-Tawbe Surah, 9:31)

When Adiy Bin Hatem, who converted to Islam from Christianity, said to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), “The Messenger of Allah! We did not take them as our Lord”, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) made this explanation: “They made those unlawful which Allah declared lawful and lawful which Allah declared unlawful, and you obeyed them. That is taking them as lords.” One need not necessarily call something “lord” in order to have it as his lord.

To elaborate, an example of how Jews have made their rabbis as their lords concerns the matter of usury.

“For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;- in that they hindered many from Allah’s Way;- That they took usury, though they were forbidden; and that they devoured men’s substance wrongfully;- we have prepared for those among them who reject faith a grievous punishment.” … [Al-Qur’an, Sûrah al-Nisâ’:160 & 161]

The Jews are following and obeying their rabbis who have made the taking of usury from Gentiles lawful and so they have made their rabbis as their lords despite the fact that Allah has absolutely and strictly prohibited the taking of usury from any source.

Taking usury is an extremely grave sin in Islam and so this brazen act of declaring that the taking of usury from Gentiles is lawful for Jews is just one small example of how the Jews have earned the wrath of the Lord.

As to the question of how Christians have made their monks and priests as their lords, are they not faithfully following and obeying their church leaders who have made unlawful food such as the flesh of swine and blood to be lawful and conversely have outlawed things like polygamy which had been allowed at the time of Jesus Christ (pbuh)?

And furthermore, most Christians are brazenly violating the Second Commandment by erecting statues and making graven images and bowing down to them and it is they who are truly offending the Lord, NOT the followers of Islam.

And as for the many miracles of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), some of them can be read at this webpage.

 

[noobio]

Just having the Ten Commandments in one’s scriptures will not do anyone any good because one has to actually obey the Commandments in order to please the Lord.

Where not talking about if anyone is following a religion correctly or not, you said the topic if Islam is evil. You used the 10 commandments to proof Islam is good, but now you are saying it is useless to have it in scripture ?

The Qur’an declares that Jews and Christians have taken their own rabbis and monks as their lords – “They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no God save Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!” … (At-Tawbe Surah, 9:31)

When Adiy Bin Hatem, who converted to Islam from Christianity, said to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), “The Messenger of Allah! We did not take them as our Lord”, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) made this explanation: “They made those unlawful which Allah declared lawful and lawful which Allah declared unlawful, and you obeyed them. That is taking them as lords.” One need not necessarily call something “lord” in order to have it as his lord.

Actually, Christians have been following the law of Christ the whole time. We only have one God, which we have worshipped 2000 years ago, yes the first believes in Christ believed he was God. Also, Mohommad is introducing something new, the Jewish laws, which are in the Torah were always in the Torah and Christians have always followed what Christ said, and believed in him. Christians did not, believe in a new God, or take other “lords”. Maybe certain individuals but we are only to follow the way of Christ which the church does.

To elaborate, an example of how Jews have made their rabbis as their lords concerns the matter of usury.

“For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;- in that they hindered many from Allah’s Way;- That they took usury, though they were forbidden; and that they devoured men’s substance wrongfully;- we have prepared for those among them who reject faith a grievous punishment.” … [Al-Qur’an, Sûrah al-Nisâ’:160 & 161]

The Jews are following and obeying their rabbis who have made the taking of usury from Gentiles lawful and so they have made their rabbis as their lords despite the fact that Allah has absolutely and strictly prohibited the taking of usury from any source.

Why does it matter what the Jews did ? Did there scriptures (Torah) command them to do that ? You should judge a religion by its scriptures,writtings, laws, etc not by its followers. I really don’t care what the Jews did, I only care what the NT and OT say.

Taking usury is an extremely grave sin in Islam and so this brazen act of declaring that the taking of usury from Gentiles is lawful for Jews is just one small example of how the Jews have earned the wrath of the Lord.

The poeple in the OT had God wrath, even before the existence of Islam. Your’e paying attention to jews and not Jewish teachings.

As to the question of how Christians have made their monks and priests as their lords, are they not faithfully following and obeying their church leaders who have made unlawful food such as the flesh of swine and blood to be lawful and conversely have outlawed things like polygamy which had been allowed at the time of Jesus Christ (pbuh)?

Well, Christanity is a religion which follows the new promise of God (Jeremiah 31:31). We don’t need to follow the OT, but the NT.

And furthermore, most Christians are brazenly violating the Second Commandment by erecting statues and making graven images and bowing down to them and it is they who are truly offending the Lord, NOT the followers of Islam.

Once again, you pay attention to what Christians do, and not Christians teaching. The second commandment tells us not to worship images, no Christian does that, we only use them to honour.

And as for the many miracles of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), some of them can be read at this webpage.

 

[EzraJacob]

As to the question of how Christians have made their monks and priests as their lords, are they not faithfully following and obeying their church leaders who have made unlawful food such as the flesh of swine and blood to be lawful and conversely have outlawed things like polygamy which had been allowed at the time of Jesus Christ (pbuh)?

You should read the Acts of the Apostles. Its right after the Gospel of John. In it, Peter has a vision from the Lord in which all animals and creations of the Lord are made clean. Then Peter journys to a Gentiles house and sees the Holy Spirit work on the gentiles. Therefore It is concluded that there is no difference between Gentile and Jew, no matter what they eat.

It is also said that it is not what goes in your mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out of your mouth. For words are from the heart.

And Also, the Apostles met and talked in Jerusalem, when pharesse converts to Christianity tried to tell the Gentile converts that they still needed to follow the law. Yet Peter and the Apostles declared that the Gentiles only have to follow a certain few rules. Here is the letter they sent to the Christians on Gentile origins…From Acts. Ch. 15

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This is the letter delivered by them: “The apostles and the presbyters, your brothers, to the brothers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia of Gentile origin: greetings.
24
Since we have heard that some of our number (who went out) without any mandate from us have upset you with their teachings and disturbed your peace of mind,
25
we have with one accord decided to choose representatives and to send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26
who have dedicated their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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So we are sending Judas and Silas who will also convey this same message by word of mouth:
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‘It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities,
29
namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.’”

And furthermore, most Christians are brazenly violating the Second Commandment by erecting statues and making graven images and bowing down to them and it is they who are truly offending the Lord, NOT the followers of Islam.

What would break the commandment is to worship idols, in which case we do not. We know a statue is not God. We can tell that the statue behind the altar, of Jesus crucified, is not really Jesus.

And to follow the literal letter of that commandment, would mean that even drawing a picture is a sin.

 

[4EVER_Catholic]

Evil.

Evil is Live backwards. That’s what Islam is - backwards living because it claims that Jesus is only a prophet.

Islam holds Jesus as it’s most important prophet, held in much higher esteem than the prophet Mohammad. The Jew’s bless their hearts either see him as a hieratic or of little if any importance. I find what has been said here by most just shows their ignorance. Much what has been said about Islam can be said of our faith and many other faiths. Really educate yourself before you stick your foot down your throat.

There are fanatics and evil people in every faith without exception and we all are well aware of it. Don’t judge a religion or people for what a few do.

And may I add from what I just read, there are misunderstandings from all sides. Thank God for forums like this to try to educate those that are confused or have been taught the wrong way. Ty to all that in a gentle kind way explain ty.

 

[Mungling]

My best advice for the original poster would be to do some research on his own. Islam is becoming an important enough topic that I believe it warrants some time to research and learn the basics of Islamic belief. The Qur’an is relatively short, and if you read a book or so a day then it isn’t a huge burden. I would also suggest reading two books on Islamic belief: one that portrays it mostly in a positive light (Islam for Dummies does this well enough, it basically white washes the more troubling aspects of Islam) and one that portrays it in a more negative light. Ideally, of course, you could simply find an unbiased analysis of Islam but that I do not have a book to recommend in that category.

Christians should know that the media distorts and sensationalizes. After all, don’t they do this to the Catholic faith all the time? Trying to classify all Muslims as this or that (for that matter treating all Islam as homogeneous) is simply a silly a idea. Classifying Islam as good or evil based upon the acts of a select group of its adherents is also deeply flawed. Christianity has its own share of skeletons in its closet. How many times have I heard Catholics say that the actions of Catholic men and women should not affect and do not reflect their religion. How many times have I heard it said that the Inquisition, certain actions of the Crusades, or other similar acts should not be used to impune Christianity. Should we not then extend this idea to people of other faiths?

For my mind, while Islam lacks the fullness of truth present in the Catholic Church there are a lot of true things contained within the idea of Islam. Give it a look, and don’t let yourself be influenced by the media.

 

[Steven_John]

Ave Maria!
I have talked with a lot of Coptic Orthodoxes about Islam and they seem to think that it’s an evil religion. But when I read Nostra Aetate it’s seems to be a religion of peace.
Is Islam evil or good?

Is Christianity good or evil?

What people do in religions are the things good or evil.

Muslims seek to glorify G-d / Allah and to do good and righteous deeds, the seek refuge in G-d / Allah from satan the cursed.

The Quran speaks like this many many times and while it permits justice it states mercy is the better path.

I guess the core of your question would be seen in three ways

1. Is the Quran (Islamic primary source) writings for good or evil?
2. are the Hadiths (Islamic secondary source) writings for good or evil?
3. What fruit do we see from Islamic people (not TV stuff i mean your personal relationships)

All three are best answered by you rather than me or any other save G-d.

A man that builds his house on the foundation of his living neighbour has none but his neighbour has two.

A man who builds a house on the foundation of those who have gone before should check it thoroughly for if it had no strength it may have been the cause of him being taken. So check for yourself well least it kill all in that house.

Blessings to you and yours

 

[Augustine3]

And furthermore, most Christians are brazenly violating the Second Commandment by erecting statues and making graven images and bowing down to them and it is they who are truly offending the Lord, NOT the followers of Islam.

It’s no different to Muslims turning toward the kaba in Mecca bowing down in prayer…

God bless,

 

[Steven_John]

It’s no different to Muslims turning toward the kaba in Mecca bowing down in prayer…

God bless,

I think it is different from the perspective where i live.

here in Australia i dont know of any Christians who make and worship idols. i do know of some Christians who use icons in prayer focus.

As for Muslims facing the Kabba it is said to me in the Quran it is explained as an instruction to test or show who is and who is not obedient to Mohamed (pbwh). The original direction of prayer toward Jerusalem was originally given to the Jews so Allah could change it for those who follow Mohamed (pbuh).

Pray well and stay well

 

[Steven_John]

Islam holds Jesus as it’s most important prophet, held in much higher esteem than the prophet Mohammad. .

Not so in the Mosque where i live.
Mohamed (pbuh) is their leader and Master, he is the leader of all the prophets (pbut).
The statement Master is by some explained to be the master of the religious understanding.
Blessings to you and yours

 

[hamba2han]

It’s no different to Muslims turning toward the kaba in Mecca bowing down in prayer…

God bless,

I will bow down toward Your holy temple and will praise Your name for Your love and Your faithfulness, for You have exalted above all things Your name and Your word. … (Psalm 138:2)

I can of course quote verses from the Bible but the real reason why Muslims pray the way we do is because the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) instructed his followers: “Pray as you have seen me praying”.

 

[Steven_John]

I am not good with memory and cant recall a surah but do hadith (narrations of testimony some 300 years after Mohamed (pbuh).

If you follow the hadiths as a first source than (Book #11, Hadith #604) and others maybe.

But if one believes the Quran is a revelation from Allah, and Allah is above the prophet (pbuh)
it would be better to follow the Quran that you have the best of understanding.

Be aware the brackets are not the revelation but the accepted interpretation. (best i understand)

Thus We have made you [true Muslims - real believers of Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم and his Sunnah (legal ways)], a just (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) be a witness over you. And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger). Indeed it was great (heavy) except for those whom Allah guided. And Allah would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, Allah is full of Kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind.

There are other verses but best i remember this has the most detail explanation of reason.

Truly the Quran does instruct to follow Mohamed (pbuh) but if the Quran offers why look else where?

May Allah bless and guide you and yours as youes submit to Him