Islam

[Augustine3]

I will bow down toward Your holy temple and will praise Your name for Your love and Your faithfulness, for You have exalted above all things Your name and Your word. … (Psalm 138:2)

I can of course quote verses from the Bible but the real reason why Muslims pray the way we do is because the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) instructed his followers: “Pray as you have seen me praying”.

We do not worship the statues or images; they remind us of whom they represent. The reason why we use them is because the Church recommends it to help our focus.

God bless,

 

[hamba2han]

I am not good with memory and cant recall a surah but do hadith (narrations of testimony some 300 years after Mohamed (pbuh).

If you follow the hadiths as a first source than (Book #11, Hadith #604) and others maybe.

But if one believes the Quran is a revelation from Allah, and Allah is above the prophet (pbuh)
it would be better to follow the Quran that you have the best of understanding.

Be aware the brackets are not the revelation but the accepted interpretation. (best i understand)

Thus We have made you [true Muslims - real believers of Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم and his Sunnah (legal ways)], a just (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) be a witness over you. And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger). Indeed it was great (heavy) except for those whom Allah guided. And Allah would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, Allah is full of Kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind.

There are other verses but best i remember this has the most detail explanation of reason.

Truly the Quran does instruct to follow Mohamed (pbuh) but if the Quran offers why look else where? (emphasis mine)

May Allah bless and guide you and yours as youes submit to Him

"And obey Allah and the Messenger, that ye may obtain mercy." … [Qur’an 3:132]

The Lord made the obedience of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) an obedience to Him, and following the Prophet (pbuh) an indication of the love of Allah:
**
“He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah.”** … [Qur’an 4:80]

Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. … [Qur’an 3:31]

And so, without referring to the ahadith, how are Muslims going to follow and obey the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as commanded by Allah in the Qur’an?

Think of the Qur’an as the map to guide us through the journey of life and think of the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the legend by which to correctly read this map.

Just as it would be foolish for us to try to read a map without referring to the accompanying legend, then only a fool would try to interpret the Qur’an in a way which is different than how the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself understood and followed the Qur’an.

And so, reading the Qur’an alone will certainly not be enough to truly understand the Message of Islam because one also needs to refer to the Sunnah in order to not misinterpret the Qur’an.

Muslims therefore must follow the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and not rely entirely on the Qur’an alone for guidance.

 

[hamba2han]

We do not worship the statues or images; they remind us of whom they represent. The reason why we use them is because the Church recommends it to help our focus.

God bless,

Did I say anything at all about actually worshiping these statues and graven images??

Your answer illustrates yet another example of what I was pointing out in an earlier post regarding how many Christians have taken their Church leaders as their lords in deference to what is written in the Bible, specifically the Second Commandment’s warning against the mere act of erecting statues and graven images.

 

[Augustine3]

Do you even know the reason why God issued the commandment not to make graven images?

God bless,

 

[Steven_John]

"And obey Allah and the Messenger, that ye may obtain mercy." … [Qur’an 3:132]

The Lord made the obedience of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) an obedience to Him, and following the Prophet (pbuh) an indication of the love of Allah:
**
“He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah.”** … [Qur’an 4:80]

Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. … [Qur’an 3:31]

And so, without referring to the ahadith, how are Muslims going to follow and obey the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as commanded by Allah in the Qur’an?

Think of the Qur’an as the map to guide us through the journey of life and think of the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the legend by which to correctly read this map.

Just as it would be foolish for us to try to read a map without referring to the accompanying legend, then only a fool would try to interpret the Qur’an in a way which is different than how the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself understood and followed the Qur’an.

And so, reading the Qur’an alone will certainly not be enough to truly understand the Message of Islam because one also needs to refer to the Sunnah in order to not misinterpret the Qur’an.

Muslims therefore must follow the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and not rely entirely on the Qur’an alone for guidance.

AsSalum Aliekum,
I do have understanding of what you say and seek only to clarify how your logic looks to me, not to make argument. Yours is for you and mine is for me, neither of us can carry the others. Mine is just to look for a way to gently remind you the Quran is the first and best source for people of the Islamic religion.

#176 I offered the thread of what the Quran says about the direction of prayer.
#178 You post to explain its from hadith (“the real reason” suggests i offered false)
#179 I post a detailed quote from the Quran (with accepted narrations)
#191 You post several quotes from the Quran supporting your original position of the hadiths.
Allah guides therewith whom He wills; and whomever Allah sends astray, for him there is no guide. Unguided we go round in circles. If you look last to the Quran you will end up using it as the first. Allah makes visible His Ayat.

Hadiths are narrations gathered some 300 years (15 generations) after Mohamed(pbuh).
Quran is offered as Allahs revelation claimed to be without fault, maybe that’s why you used it several times to support the use of hadiths.
If you parallel the hadith as a legend to the Quran it would be false speech to say it accompanied it as it did not, Mohamed (pbuh) is the accompanied it not hearsay some 300 years later.
All the prophets (pbut) had the Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunnah, the faultless speech of the prophets, wisdom) the injeel could be seen as more authoritative given the narrations are said only 30-100 years after Yahooshua (pbwh).

Where i live the Muslim community see the Quran as the first source of Allahs guidance and then look to the hadiths.

Countered the Quran as the primary source for prayer direction, stating its the hadith and supported that with the Quran.

I respect for many it is hard to follow Allah and easier to follow men (or oral narrations of 15 generations on), its how many Muslims claim many Christians have fallen though some their narrations are said to be eyewitness accounts.

I think if our intention is to glorify Allah He will bring some good from it, He knows best what is between us and will be all just on the meeting day.

May Allah bless and guide you and yours.

 

[Dragonslayer]

An interesting read.

Considering the topic is about whether Islam is basically good, or evil, I wonder if someone can clarify some aspects of Islam that, if I was a follower of Islam, I would be very concerned about. Some posts have already touched on Jihad, superiority to non-muslims, terrorism, 9/11 etc. But some others are;

• The founder married a 6 year old girl and had sexual relations with her when she was about 9.
• The founder had a number of wives and mistresses and apparently had an enormous sexual appetite.
• The religion spread, not by the word, but by the sword, and conquered people were released from slavery and taxes by converting to Islam.
• Rape is still fairly prevalent, as the victim needs 3 independant witnesses.
• I understand approx. 75% of women in Pakistani jails are there because they are victims of rape. That’s right, VICTIMS. Without witnesses, they are guilty of adultery.
• Female genital mutilation is still practised and reasonably common
• Females are oppressed and are even forced to cover their faces and bodies apparently because men cannot control their sexual urges.
• They believe in a sensual heaven (47 virgins for martyrs???), rather than a spiritual heaven

.

Are these misconceptions? How could any of these behaviours, or others already mentioned be part of any religion? Why don’t followers express their disgust and seek to eradicate them from their culture?

Jesus said to beware of false prophets, and you will judge a tree by its fruits.
With the many evil things about Islam currently in existance, ie “the fruits”, how can anyone argue that it is anything other than a false religion, founded by a false prophet?

 

[hamba2han]

Do you even know the reason why God issued the commandment not to make graven images?

God bless,

The reason why his Creator forbade Adam (pbuh) to eat the fruit in the Garden is known only to the Lord Himself.

However, in the case of why the Creator forbids His creations to make statues and graven images, then the reason for this is to be found in the story of Noah (pbuh)… and I have indeed elaborated on this reason in this thread.

You see, the evil of making statues and graven images is somewhat similar to the evil of engaging in usury i.e. while it may appear relatively small and harmless but in reality, the eventual consequences of such actions are profoundly dire and hugely devastating to both society and individual as evident in the great turmoil which is currently engulfing the world’s financial markets and the utter misery it brings to people.

And in the case of making statues and graven images, it ultimately leads the creations into associating partners with their Creator… which of course violates the First Commandment, an extremely major and unforgivable sin in Islam.

 

[hamba2han]

An interesting read.

Considering the topic is about whether Islam is basically good, or evil, I wonder if someone can clarify some aspects of Islam that, if I was a follower of Islam, I would be very concerned about. Some posts have already touched on Jihad, superiority to non-muslims, terrorism, 9/11 etc. But some others are;

• The founder married a 6 year old girl and had sexual relations with her when she was about 9.
• The founder had a number of wives and mistresses and apparently had an enormous sexual appetite.
• The religion spread, not by the word, but by the sword, and conquered people were released from slavery and taxes by converting to Islam.
• Rape is still fairly prevalent, as the victim needs 3 independant witnesses.
• I understand approx. 75% of women in Pakistani jails are there because they are victims of rape. That’s right, VICTIMS. Without witnesses, they are guilty of adultery.
• Female genital mutilation is still practised and reasonably common
• Females are oppressed and are even forced to cover their faces and bodies apparently because men cannot control their sexual urges.
• They believe in a sensual heaven (47 virgins for martyrs???), rather than a spiritual heaven

.

Are these misconceptions? How could any of these behaviours, or others already mentioned be part of any religion? Why don’t followers express their disgust and seek to eradicate them from their culture?

Jesus said to beware of false prophets, and you will judge a tree by its fruits.
With the many evil things about Islam currently in existance, ie “the fruits”, how can anyone argue that it is anything other than a false religion, founded by a false prophet?

In order to answer your question, you first need to define what is ‘good’ and what is ‘evil’… and this brings the discussion back to my first post in this thread.

Name just one thing that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did which was incompatible with what the Biblical Prophets (peace be upon them all) did as recorded in the Bible?

And to give just one example of what an earlier Prophet did:

Moses (pbuh) waged war to punish people who were guilty of deliberately denying the truth. A study of the Old Testament shows that the ‘Jihad’ he waged was of two forms. One form of Jihad was that nations who subscribed to polytheism were to be put to death in all cases, while another form was that some nations were spared in case they agreed to remain subservient.

The following verses depict the first form of Jihad:

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations – the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you – and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. … (Deuteronomy 7:1-5)

The following verses depict the second form of Jihad:

When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labour and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, and children, the livestock and everything else in the city you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. … (Deuteronomy 20:10-15)

In short, if people wish to disqualify the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as being a true Prophet of God based on his supposedly “evil” actions like waging ‘Jihad’, then they need to also disqualify Moses (pbuh) as being a true Prophet of God for the same reason.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Some read the Quran and receive a message of Love. Others I’m not sure what to call what they received.

However the fact is until we can live in peace among each other theres a fundemental issue which goes against Gods universal law of Love.

Peace,

 

[jakasaki]

In order to answer your question, you first need to define what is ‘good’ and what is ‘evil’… and this brings the discussion back to my first post in this thread.

Name just one thing that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did which was incompatible with what the Biblical Prophets (peace be upon them all) did as recorded in the Bible?

And to give just one example of what an earlier Prophet did:

Moses (pbuh) waged war to punish people who were guilty of deliberately denying the truth. A study of the Old Testament shows that the ‘Jihad’ he waged was of two forms. One form of Jihad was that nations who subscribed to polytheism were to be put to death in all cases, while another form was that some nations were spared in case they agreed to remain subservient.

The following verses depict the first form of Jihad:

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations – the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you – and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. … (Deuteronomy 7:1-5)

The following verses depict the second form of Jihad:

When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labour and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, and children, the livestock and everything else in the city you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. … (Deuteronomy 20:10-15)

In short, if people wish to disqualify the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as being a true Prophet of God based on his supposedly “evil” actions like waging ‘Jihad’, then they need to also disqualify Moses (pbuh) as being a true Prophet of God for the same reason.

Moses acted on God’s instructions - remember - God **spoke **to Moses ~face to face~.

The self proclaimed prophet of islam acted on his own - God **never **spoke to Mohamad

 

[Steven_John]

Moses acted on God’s instructions - remember - God **spoke **to Moses ~face to face~.

The self proclaimed prophet of islam acted on his own - God **never **spoke to Mohamad

I dont think that is a valid argument as other messengers (pbut) did not speak to G-d face to face but that did not make the message false. They are still accepted as truthful.

Peace and blessings

 

[StevenFrancis]

Ave Maria!
I have talked with a lot of Coptic Orthodoxes about Islam and they seem to think that it’s an evil religion. But when I read Nostra Aetate it’s seems to be a religion of peace.
Is Islam evil or good?

Islam is a Christian heresy. We don’t accept it as true, and we should be committed to the best of our abilities to spreading the good news of the authentic understanding of Jesus Christ to all people everywhere.

This should not, in any way, reflect on the adherents of Islam, who are monothestic brothers and sisters of ours, and sons and daughters of Abraham.

The people who are believers of Islam are not any more good or evil than any other grouping of people. They are people. Children of the one God.

So Islam= heresy. We need to continue to try to correct it out of love of Christ.
Moslems = Good or bad, like the rest of us, to the extent that they follow the law given us by God through Jesus Christ. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and and all your mind, and love your neighbor as yourself. Wherever they very from that, they are siding with evil. Wherever they comply with that, they are siding with good. Just as with Christians or Jews.

That’s my understanding of the whole thing anyway. If I’m wrong in this, it wouldn’t surprise me. I stand ready to learn, as always.

Peace,

Steven

 

[Dragonslayer]

In order to answer your question, you first need to define what is ‘good’ and what is ‘evil’… and this brings the discussion back to my first post in this thread.

Name just one thing that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did which was incompatible with what the Biblical Prophets (peace be upon them all) did as recorded in the Bible?

And to give just one example of what an earlier Prophet did:

Moses (pbuh) waged war to punish people who were guilty of deliberately denying the truth. A study of the Old Testament shows that the ‘Jihad’ he waged was of two forms. One form of Jihad was that nations who subscribed to polytheism were to be put to death in all cases, while another form was that some nations were spared in case they agreed to remain subservient.

The following verses depict the first form of Jihad:

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations – the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you – and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. … (Deuteronomy 7:1-5)

The following verses depict the second form of Jihad:

When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labour and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, and children, the livestock and everything else in the city you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. … (Deuteronomy 20:10-15)

In short, if people wish to disqualify the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as being a true Prophet of God based on his supposedly “evil” actions like waging ‘Jihad’, then they need to also disqualify Moses (pbuh) as being a true Prophet of God for the same reason.

Strangely, you ignored all other matters I raised and defended the Jihad of Muslims (which I specifically didn’t mention anyway) by saying its okay because Moses did something similar.

Nevermind that Jesus Christ created a new testament with God which forever changed man’s relationship with God. So, you simply cannot make comparisons between the times of the new testament to the times of the old testament.

But, while you like to compare “prophets” I would like to compare founders.

The founder of Christianity was Jesus Christ, who was the Son of God and practised love, humility, meekness & forgiveness and who preached love thy neighbour, love thy enemy and a reward of an eternal life in the presence of God.

The founder of Islam plagiarised bits of Christianity and practised warmongering, sexual depravity and oppression, and who preached death to non-believers and an eternal reward in a sensual paradise where you will be served by numerous virgins.

I dunno, but to me it seems like one is a true message from God, and one isn’t.

 

[jakasaki]

I dont think that is a valid argument as other messengers (pbut) did not speak to G-d face to face but that did not make the message false. They are still accepted as truthful.

Peace and blessings

My reply was because Hamba compared Moses to Mohamad.

So yes, it is valid.

God never spoke to Mohamad - never

 

[Steven_John]

My reply was because Hamba compared Moses to Mohamad.

So yes, it is valid.

God never spoke to Mohamad - never

So you mean G-d only instructs humans face to face?

I took his post to be comparing G-ds instruction for war in accepted books by Christians & Jews and the Quran.

 

[Steven_John]

God never spoke to Mohamad - never

thats a dangerous claim for you, do you know the hearts of men of old?

You speak only guessing, saying things no man can be sure of.

For all you we know G-d could have spoke to Mohamed (pbuh) and said “what do you think your doing, this is so wrong” But Mohamed (pbuh) told him to take a hike.

i am not saying that did happen but have tried to illustrate the danger in your claim, using what you may see as suitable to your understanding.

You do not know all who G-d spoke to and has not.

I offer this to you for your own well being.

may peace be upon you and yours

 

[perro_sarnoso]

Ave Maria!
I have talked with a lot of Coptic Orthodoxes about Islam and they seem to think that it’s an evil religion. But when I read Nostra Aetate it’s seems to be a religion of peace.
Is Islam evil or good?

Islam did not start out as a religion. It started out as a heresy to the already existent catholic church of the time.

It gained its power and growth through the popularity of its proclamations and the literal sword. Their aim back then and their continued aim now is the extermination of Judaism and Christianity.

Plain and simple. Americanized muslims think differently than those in the far east.

 

[Bloved]

Lets not forget Christianity can be used for evil too, Jim Jones, The Church of Bible Understanding, Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God, The Branch Davidians , lets not forget the latest Mormon who was convicted, the men who kill abortion doctors, shall I go on? No religion is free of morons. And lets not forget how Catholics were treated when them first came to this country? It took a long time for America to trust Catholics…now its just ironic.

 

[Steven_John]

An interesting read.

Considering the topic is about whether Islam is basically good, or evil, I wonder if someone can clarify some aspects of Islam that, if I was a follower of Islam, I would be very concerned about. Some posts have already touched on Jihad, superiority to non-muslims, terrorism, 9/11 etc. But some others are;

• The founder married a 6 year old girl and had sexual relations with her when she was about 9.
• The founder had a number of wives and mistresses and apparently had an enormous sexual appetite.
• The religion spread, not by the word, but by the sword, and conquered people were released from slavery and taxes by converting to Islam.
• Rape is still fairly prevalent, as the victim needs 3 independant witnesses.
• I understand approx. 75% of women in Pakistani jails are there because they are victims of rape. That’s right, VICTIMS. Without witnesses, they are guilty of adultery.
• Female genital mutilation is still practised and reasonably common
• Females are oppressed and are even forced to cover their faces and bodies apparently because men cannot control their sexual urges.
• They believe in a sensual heaven (47 virgins for martyrs???), rather than a spiritual heaven

.

Are these misconceptions? How could any of these behaviours, or others already mentioned be part of any religion? Why don’t followers express their disgust and seek to eradicate them from their culture?

Jesus said to beware of false prophets, and you will judge a tree by its fruits.
With the many evil things about Islam currently in existance, ie “the fruits”, how can anyone argue that it is anything other than a false religion, founded by a false prophet?

Peace and blessings,
it does not look like any one is game to attempt answer of your questions, i am in no authority to do so but as no one will i consider they are either happy about them or ignorant. I will try and address them as best i can.

Starting at the end judging Islam by the fruits you offer may not be fair given that you have no good things you have seen or can speak of. I would ask when you get some halal meat and invite your local Muslims over do they never do anything good?
I say this tongue in cheek as i believe if you really want to know fruit it should be fresh and you are best to experience it. I could start telling you of lots of bad Christian fruit but you already know all barrels have some rotten apples. You would also know 1500 years ago history was not well recorded as is our modern history.

The list
many ancient cultures considered puberty as the age for marital relationships for lots of reasons. One being life expectancy was short and propagation was the reason for relations. in contrast today west society oft sex is for pleasure and we try not to propagate. Many cultures betroth children as young as birth even today. Maintenance becomes a question. In arab culture the Islam arose in have a daughter was considered a curse and many were buried soon after birth. Of course i have no evidence that this applies to the particular as both of us can only make guesses of what happened so long ago.

People in my society have enormous sexual appetites in my country, we feed them with public bill boards of content we dont even allow on TV. Many children of Catholic families prefer this path. We seem more outraged about polygamy than “free” sex. Polygamy was part of ancient culture in many cultures crossing many religious traditions. Having sex with slaves was also part of life you only have to read the bible to know so.

Lots of religions were spread with violence it was not so long ago Christians killed each other in the name of G-d. If i were to look globally today i may still find examples.

Rape is a terrible thing, in cultures dominated and ruled by the wrong doers people are poorly treated to suite the corrupt. One must also be mindful that free sex is a crime i cant speak for the women in prison but if what was consensual sex and she is abandoned by the man and the punishment is death, has the woman been raped?
As for needing three witnesses its a bad thing but i dont know it to be Islamic. I do know the Quran balances the witness of women as being below a man ie you need two female witness so one can remind the other should she become forgetful. It was not so long ago my country was treating women poorly and they were times of Christianity being the basis of law.

Pakistan is a very corrupt country and it may claim to be doing “Islamic” way but it really does not. Bribery is how things get done but in Islam i think its forbidden. So Pakistan is not a good example of Islam but is of corruption.

I know of no verse in the Quran that permits genital mutilation but i am not the best reader. I dont understand it but it is to remove pleasure. The Catholic church i grew up in never considered sexual pleasure as good. Thanks be to G-d they never did such terrible thing. They were also unsuccessful in what they did do.

…next post

 

[Steven_John]

cont …

some females are oppressed by Christians and made to do terrible things, but that does not make Christianity evil. I know of Muslim women who are very happy and like to cover. No doubt some are forced. In my society 30 years ago you would be locked up for wearing what women wear today. In our Catholic parish it is forbidden to wear thongs if you are a special minister, that does not make them evil, it just shows they don’t yet fully understand the meaning of “come as you are”. As for it being men cant control their sexual urges, do you lock your car because people get urges to steal or leave it unlocked? The motivation IMO for a Christian to lock the car is not to prevent their loss but to prevent the sin of the thief. What did Yahooshua (pbwh) tell us to do if some one steals your shirt? give them your jacket (or words likened) point being is by giving you help them as they dont steal. It is a kind thing to sacrifice of ones own self to help others not fall.
Some where in the latter bible narrations we should be warned to obtain from what makes others fall, ie dont eat chocolate in front of an over weight dieter.

Your last point i cant help with in any way that has reason, there is Islamic poster here so hopefully for you any misinformation in my post will encourage them to help you by answering as i assume these are genuine questions.
Forum rules do not allow us to bait in questions so obviously you had no pre conceived motive in asking them.

Any how Christians dont go looking for fault but goodness in others, Yahooshua (pbwh) modelled the way when speaking about Samaritans, barely did he mention their faults but really made examples of how even people who are not the chosen but have his G-ds goodness.

Please understand these are not necessary my opinions unless stated but an attempt to help you with your problem as it seems no one else cares or thinks you are out to prove Islam bad even though thats not how we are supposed to be in the forum. I am sure i have fallen this way many times.

May Allah / G-d have mercy on us all, look forward to some further response for you.

Pray well and stay well