Islam

[inJESUS]

I too proved that your interpretation is not necessarily a fact

ok bro…i wont argue about this anymore coz this thread is about islam…if we keep digressing , the Moderator will ask us to stop it. So you are free to open new threads and post your questions…

What you read in the Koran is your own thoughts.

Thus your interpretation is only good for your mind

which is closed and not open for intellectual discussion/criticism you mean that BLASPHEMERS, UNJUST, PERVERTED WHO WILL BURN IN HELL is something positive? if i tell you :

Hey Justice, you are a BLASPHERE, UNJUST AND PERVERT UNBELIEVER WHO WILL BURN IN HELL, will you be happy?

will you still beat about the bush here or shall we jump to something different?

And I do accuse you that you have no proper knowledge of the Koran nor the Holy Bible and IMO, you are a bad name to your own faith and you are among those "**many **

chrisitians" to who Jesus will tell “Depart from me, I never knew you, ye that work iniquity” because you are guilty of iniquity though you call Jesus “Lord, Lord”. Your posts are filled with hatred and they are rubbish. this is the fourth time you state the same thing without refuting anything…
and do not worry, Jesus is not mad with me coz am criticizing a false doctrine…am not insulting here. If i dont show falshood, then it is a sin…So just save me this comment coz you know it is not true.
Thank you for the explanation of inequity…it applies on you dont you think? you keep insulting and you judge without proof .

 

[inJESUS]

freesoulhope:

you have lead on to your own uderstanding and have totally failed to regognise the reasoning and logic behind my augument. the thruth is you will not eccept the truth aslong as it contradict your pridefull reasoning of which you have no logical augument. two religions which are in disagreement about the divinity of Christ, agree on the fact that he was crusified. muhammed did not witness or testify to witnessing the events that lead up to his crucifixsion, nither was he there to say otherwise, the apostles testify to the crusifixtion and the divinity of christ, they where thier. What is it that you dont understand? What documents or writings of the crusifiction that we believe to have been written by the apostles tell you that he wasnt crusified. And what conspritus ideas do your thing will explain away the fact that the jewish faith testifys to the fact that he was crusified?

Bro, he doesnt want to know the truth coz his whole faith will go with the wind. He claims the Bible was written a long time after Jesus’ resurrection as if the quran were written during mohammad’s time!

 

[freesoulhope]

The idea that not all the gospels where written by the apostles is erelevent and doesnt prove that that they wasnt inspired by true events. If they where not written by them, then they where written by follows or witnneses of jesus or the apotles testomies, we believe this on a matter of faith. You believe muhammed on a matter of faith, but have no real auguement to justify your testomonie.

 

[inJESUS]

Justice, you still did not reply to the quranic position of Jesus crucifixion.

My second question is : both Bible and Quran were written by people…why should allah accept that people corrupt the Bible of his Ruhullah and Kalimatullah and not the quran? dont you think you are accusing God of being inconsistent, not omnipotent, discriminator and deceiver? and didnt mohammad attest to the Bible at his time?

 

[Reuben_J]

Justice2006:

Note: APOSTLES’ CREED is in Black.
…

1. Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary:

God going into a woman’s womb make no sense. How can God become His own creature? Holy Spirit that was sent by God is not itself God. It was a creation just like how we all are His creation and ahve soul. Adam was born without mother and even without mother. From what? from God’s spirit ofcourse.
Holiness of God going into a mother’s womb and coming out like as we came out by making mother impure for nine months is a fairytale–myth because Jesus Christ was a man and not God.

1. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:

God, the Eternal, the Absolute, Who Has power power over all things, Who created us all…was crucified by by his own creation?
Is is conceivable? No way…sorry…it is a fairytale.

1. The third day he rose again from the dead:

Well, since God cannot die because He is Eternal there is no question of Him dying and then raising.

1. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:

Who ascended? God? God ascended into heaven to sit on whose right hand?
God is sitting on His own right hand? What are you talking?

1. From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead:

Not Jesus Christ. But the ONLY ONE GOD who is Eternal and Invisible will Judge us all, on the day of Judgement.

As far Jesus Christ coming again…well he is a man and not God.

…

…

1. The forgiveness of sins:

Only God Almighty can forgive sins depending upon the nature of the sin. Can Missolini, Hitler too will be forgiven by the God of “Love”? I don’t think so, they did not receive any appropriate punishment in this world and cannot be punished if they are alive according to their terrible crime…thus they MUST BE punished on the Day of Judgement for killing millions of God’s choosen people.
Love of God is only for those who follow the path of God to the best of their ability. There will be no salvation for Criminals like Hitler or Missolini though they were Catholic/Christians.

1. And the life everlasting. Amen

The everlasting life is for those who follow the commandments of God sent by Him through His Prophets from time to time to guide the their people/or whole humanity. No salvation/eternal life who does not follow commandments. Mere faith means nothing. You have to have a tru faith first and then at the same time a proof of having firm belief in that faith in practicle life.

That’s mean you are NOT a Catholic. You can be anything else but not a Roman Catholic, at least.

The Apostles’ Creed is a profession of faith. It is only recited by a Christian, in particular here, by Catholic Christians. You recite the Apostles’ Creed because you are affirming the belief, messages and witnesses of the apostles of Jesus. The Catholic Church is apostolic, meaning, it’s a faith brought down through generations by the first witnesses of Jesus.

You probably do not know what you are addressing here. Catholics solemnly recite the Apostles’ Creed nearly every Sunday during the celebration of the Holy Mass before the entire congregation in front the altar and sacrifices prepared for God. If you are a Muslim and you are reciting the Apostles Creed, you are already an apostate! Therefore be careful about certain thing, my brother.

Anyway the said post was not directed to you but to **pro-universal ** whose professed religion as Catholic is being doubted by some members here. I would be very comfortable to take **pro-universal’s ** word that he is a Catholic if he professes the Apostles’ Creed just by saying yes to it. Then it will clear his religious ‘status’ for everyone.

And if one is a Catholic, one would be proud to respond to this, by saying YES, by reciting it, anytime. It’s taking a position. Its context for a Christian is: are you for Jesus or for the Devil? I thought this is one of the trademarks of a Christian, perhaps like Muslims professing Allah as the only God and Muhammad the last prophet (?). I’m not sure about the Islam thing, so this is not an attempt to compare.

Just for your information, friend.

God bless.

Reuben

 

[inJESUS]

freesoulhope:

The idea that not all the gospels where written by the apostles is erelevent and doesnt prove that that they wasnt inspired by true events. If they where not written by them, then they where written by follows or witnneses of jesus or the apotles testomies, we believe this on a matter of faith. You believe muhammed on a matter of faith, but have no real auguement to justify your testomonie.

John, Peter, Mathiew were eyewitnesses; Marc and Luke were their disciples …Paul saw Jesus 3 years after his resurrection and was the contemporary of Peter, Barabas, Luke, James and others,they preached and met at the same time.

 

[Justice2006]

freesoulhope:

What is it that you dont understand? What documents or writings of the crusifiction that we believe to have been written by the apostles tell you that he wasnt crusified. And what conspritus ideas do your thing will explain away the fact that the jewish faith testifys to the fact that he was crusified?

Dear freesoulhope,

None of the apostles of Jesus were eyewitnesses to the happenings (crucifixion). Every thing that is recorded later by the unknown authors of the New Testament, is from hearsay.

But before all that, Jesus did not want to die, in the first place as he cried out loudly “Eli Eli why has thou forsaken me” and according to other version of the Bible “Eloi, Eloi, why has thou forsaken me”.

Why a person who is willing to die or willing to commit suicide to “save” his followers’s supposed sins, should complain/cry to an another God (whose name is Eli or Eloi and not *The Holy Father * or Jesus)??? Does it make any sense? Even a child with basic knowledge, will not accept your logic of Eternal, Powerful, Greatest God dying with the hands of some criminal Jews+Romans on false charges and being dead for 3 days and 3 nights and going to Hell by becoming a curse.

What nonsense is this about God Almighty who is the Holy and the Good and free from all human weakness
.
Remember what Jesus is qouted as saying “Why call me good? There is only one Good who is in Heaven”.

What you ascribe to the Holy Eternal, the invisible and the Good God is your own thoughts, illusions and hallucinaions of your mind which is due to the contradictory, interpolated and unreliable text of the various versions of the Bibles. No two “original” copies of the Bibles are alike. Authors of the most books of the N.T are still unkown. You have no idea who you are actually following because what is in your hand in the name of Holy Bible is not the Word of God per se.

 

[inJESUS]

Justice2006:

Dear freesoulhope,

None of the apostles of Jesus were eyewitnesses to the happenings (crucifixion). Every thing that is recorded later by the unknown authors of the New Testament, is from hearsay.

But before all that, Jesus did not want to die, in the first place as he cried out loudly “Eli Eli why has thou forsaken me” and according to other version of the Bible “Eloi, Eloi, why has thou forsaken me”.

Why a person who is willing to die or willing to commit suicide to “save” his followers’s supposed sins, should complain/cry to an another God (whose name is Eli or Eloi and not *The Holy Father * or Jesus)??? Does it make any sense? Even a child with basic knowledge, will not accept your logic of Eternal, Powerful, Greatest God dying with the hands of some criminal Jews+Romans on false charges and being dead for 3 days and 3 nights and going to Hell by becoming a curse.

What nonsense is this about God Almighty who is the Holy and the Good and free from all human weakness
.
Remember what Jesus is qouted as saying “Why call me good? There is only one Good who is in Heaven”.

What you ascribe to the Holy Eternal, the invisible and the Good God is your own thoughts, illusions and hallucinaions of your mind which is due to the contradictory, interpolated and unreliable text of the various versions of the Bibles. No two “original” copies of the Bibles are alike. Authors of the most books of the N.T are still unkown. You have no idea who you are actually following because what is in your hand in the name of Holy Bible is not the Word of God per se.

please do not respond to his post coz he is digressing from the questions about islam…Justice, open a new thread.

As for Jesus saying only God is good, i’ll inform you that he said i am THE GOOD shepheard; this alone refutes your claim. Now plsease answer my questions.

 

[freesoulhope]

I believe what you have said, I only pointed the idea of who wrote the gospel for the sake of my augument.

 

[freesoulhope]

does your testomie come from eye witness events which say that he was not crusified. or is it in fact heresay, by the authors of the quran who was not there.

 

[inJESUS]

freesoulhope:

does your testomie come from eye witness events which say that he was not crusified. or is it in fact heresay, by the authors of the quran who was not there.

Bro ! you dont understand ! the Jews, the Romans, the Christians are liars ! only mohammad is truthful ! is it hard for you to get this?

Now, to all brothers here, do not let him digress…he has many threads to read if he wants answers and he can open new threads…lets go back to Islam Justice?

 

[brotherhrolf]

pro_universal:

brother,

you said:

Here I will post a primary source, written by Christians, to explain the reception of the Muslim armies in formerly “christian” lands:
fordham.edu/halsall/source/642Egypt-conq2.html

In contrast, here is what happened when the Europeans captured Jerusalem during the crusades:
fordham.edu/halsall/source/fulk2.html

Let’s see…the Muslim general of the day invites the Christian bishop back and guarantees him free practice of religion, whereas the Crusaders spare “neither women nor children”.

Is this enough to get us to stop bashing muslims and focus on being Catholic again?

Ah, yes, the Fordham site. Had you read the article immediately above what you posted, you would have seen that the Muslims sacked and burned the Church of St. Mark - the patriarchate of Alexandria. Had you gone further and done a bit more investigation on the site, you would have found that the Moorish general Tariq, upon entering into Spain, ordered his forces to quarter and boil in a cauldron a stew of Spanish vinyard tenders with the proclamation to let everyone know just how peaceful these Moorish invaders were. Gosh, I’m just awed by how peaceful they were.

 

[freesoulhope]

Based on what information? if you believe a religion just for sake of it or a cause, then you do not want truth. if you believe in a religion or a doctrine or past scripture because it makes reasonable sense and is forfilling of gods prophesy and what he wants for us, based on past scripture and what has already been shown as true, then you are seaching for truth. Nothing you have said has shown me that islam, the koran, and muhamed based on reason rather the just talk, is true testomie of Gods will. Christianity reasonably,gentley and lovingly forfills Gods will, and makes reasonble sense( and it has to since god is reasoning with us to believe him rather then the devil, its a spiritual war). You say nothing that proves to me that your religion is more then a fan club based on religous truth or a religion that doesnt have fualt.
I believe in christianity and the Catholic Church, based on faith and reason. You believe because sombody told you too. I prey that you at least reasearch and weigh your faith on reason rather then talk. God bless

 

[Justice2006]

inJESUS:

Justice, you still did not reply to the quranic position of Jesus crucifixion.

My second question is : both Bible and Quran were written by people…why should allah accept that people corrupt the Bible of his Ruhullah and Kalimatullah and not the quran? dont you think you are accusing God of being inconsistent, not omnipotent, discriminator and deceiver? and didnt mohammad attest to the Bible at his time?

One thing at a time. God willing, I can answer your questions, if you allow me some time.

No I am not accusing Allah. If the scritptures of the previous Prophets of God were not saved properly by their respective followers/nations then it is not Allah’s problem
The ample proof is no two “original manuscripts” of Bibles are alike. And as I said, most authors of the New Testament books are still unknown. You are basically following books written by unknown people.

When Jesus was on the cross, all of his disciples left Jesus alone and fled.

Mr. inJesus, you could have even ask, why God/Jesus did not convey his message to the whole world individually the moment he created man? Did Jesus gave hs message to all Chinese/Japanese/Indians/Americans/Arabs personally?
Was he actually sent to the whole world or mere children of Israel. Were all Gentiles included?

Mr. inJesus, your questions are nonsensical. You have no idea what you are talking about. You picked some verses of the Koran from anti-Islam deceptive websites by thinking they must be real objections, and start inserting them in your posts which are full of hatred and ignorance. You make me laugh. You are a bad name to your own faith and your Church. I don’t think even your Pope will accept your evil behaviour.

Now as to the description/mention about Christians/Jews/Sabaeens (The People of the Book) in the Koran:

Go to islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
then press P from the Topic indexwhich is at the left hand side, then press People of the Book. in the list. Then to see all these verses press one by one each of:

People of the Book:
among them are those who believe (13)
among them are Unbelievers (4)
differed among themselves (11)
do not take them for friends and protectors (2)
exceed you not the bounds (1)
People of the Book (21)
relationship to Muslims (31)
treachery of (5)

islamicity.com/QuranSearch/

 

[freesoulhope]

Is injustice a Catholic or a muslim?

 

[inJESUS]

One thing at a time. God willing, I can answer your questions, if you allow me some time.

No I am anot accusing Allah. If the scritptures of the previous Prophets of God were not saved properly by their respective followers then it is not Allah’s problem.

bro, didnt allah say in quran that he preserves his teachings? so why preserve one and abandon one? we are not talking about humans here, it is allah himself who said he preserves his books; muhammad as well attested of the Bible…so?

You could ahve even ask, why God/Jesus did not convey his message tot he whole world individually the moment he created man? Did Jesus gave hs message to Chinese/Japanese/Indians/Americans personally?

why didnt allah reveal himself to all mankind? leave these things to God’s wisdom.

Mr. inJesus, your questions are nonsensical. You have no idea what you are talking. You picked some verses of the Koran from anti-Islam deceptive websites by thinking they must be real objections, and start inserting them in your posts which are full of hatred and ignorance. You make me laugh. You are a bad name to your own faith and your Church. I don’t think even your Pope will accept your evil behaviour.

the fifth time you say the same thing without proof…tell me what is bad in my behavior? did i lie when i said quran doesnt respect us? did i lie when i said muhammads teachings are Jesus’ opposite? if yes, prove me wrong…if not, then save me your endless baseless insults.

Now as to the description/mention about Christians/Jews/Sabaeens (The People of the Book) in the Koran, the following are the references:

Go to islamicity.com/QuranSearch/

then press P from the Topic indexwhich is at the left hand side, then press People of the Book. in the list. Then to see all these verses press one by one each of:

People of the Book:
among them are those who believe (13)
among them are Unbelievers (4)
differed among themselves (11)
do not take them for friends and protectors (2)
exceed you not the bounds (1)
People of the Book (21)
relationship to Muslims (31)
treachery of (5)

islamicity.com/QuranSearch/ first let me inform you that Christians are not nasara…did you ever wonder why quran call us nasara not masihiyyin?

i dont need all these explaations…i gave you 2 FULL VERSES.

WOULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT DOES IT MEAN THAT PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD ARE BLASPHEMERS, UNJUST, PERVERTED WHO WILL BURN IN HELL?

 

[Justice2006]

inJESUS:

Now, to all brothers here, do not let him digress…

Mr. inJesus,

Your posts are really laughable. By now you must be thinking to suspend my membership of this forum.

But keep in mind, if you don’t read atleast your own Bible first objectively and sincerely, you will remain in your tiny world of ignorance. No Prophet of God is going to tell you personally what in fact was revealed and what God actually intended. He already sent His messages…and He gave you the intellect to think, ponder and reflect. If you canot see the light then it is your mistake.

Do you think all Protestants are wrong? Do you think their Bible interpretations, logic and reasonoing is wrong and only Catholic Church is on the right path or have a right to interpret Bible and only your papacy is under the direct guidance of Holy Spirit thus “nfallible”??

Mr. inJesus, don’t act like a foolish person. Open up your tiny closed mind and see the whole as it is and not as you wish to see from your bias/jaundiced eyes.

 

[inJESUS]

“And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before;** may Allah destroy them; how they are perverted!”**

Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium [Mary - “Jesus is the messiah”]; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust

ANY CHRISTIAN HERE, WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND FROM THESE VERSES?

 

[inJESUS]

Mr. inJesus,

Your posts are really laughable

I;LL let others say whose posts are laughable.

. By now you must be thinking to suspend my membership of this forum.

how many times should i say am not a moderator?? if such a truth must be repeated twice , i really wonder

But keep in mind, if you don’t read atleast your own Bible first objectively and sincerely, you will remain in your tiny world of ignorance. No Prophet of God is going to tell you personally what in fact was revealed and what God actually intended. He already sent His messages…and He gave you the intellect to think, ponder and reflect. If you canot see the light then it is your mistake.

i can see the light : JESUS

Do you think all Protestants are wrong? Do you think their Bible interpretations, logic and reasonoing is wrong and only Catholic Church is on the right path or have a right to interpret Bible and only your papacy is under the direct guidance of Holy Spirit thus “nfallible”??

who’s correct? Ahmadiyya, Sunni, Shia, Sufi, Salafi, Wahhabi, ecc??

Mr. inJesus, don’t act like a foolish person. Open up your tiny closed mind and see the whole as it is and not as you wish to see from your bias/jaundiced eyes

the Bible tells me clearly who a false prophet and anti-Christ it…mohammad matches…then prove to me mohammad did not oppose Jesus’ moral teachings on marriage, divorce, sex with slaves, temporary marriage, eye for eye , asking a woman to marry before she can go back to her husband and the list goes on…

 

[inJESUS]

freesoulhope:

Is injustice a Catholic or a muslim?

??? a muslim !! from his very first post !