Islamaphobia?

[WonderAndAwe]

In the wake of ISIS and other instances of radical Islam, how can Catholics make sure we don’t develop Islamaphobia toward our Muslim brothers and sisters? And I mean genuine Islamaphobia, not the kind that the secular culture rattles on about that amounts to anything that isn’t unquestionable acceptance of anything different.
This forum even has rules against posts that incite this kind of thing.

Though in a scan of the World News subforum, there are often threads reporting on things various men of the Catholic cloth have said on Islam being a dangerous threat to the entire world and such things aren’t considered Islamaphobic. Sure they’re often said by priests and bishops who have seen such terrorism firsthand like in Mosul, but justification is a tricky thing. I’m sure similar feelings about, say, the Japanese sprung up after the Imperialistic conquest of the Pacific and the Attack on Pearl Harbor. And look at how Japanese-American were treated after that.

The Cathechism also says there’s a special place in God’s Plan of Salvation for Muslims, that they too claim to worship the God of Abraham as we do and that God loves them with His Unconditional Everlasting Love as their Creator.

How can we know when the Enemy is starting to sew seeds of hate within us and trying to justify it as “They hate you, why not return the sentiment?” Because that’s just evil and not Christlike at all.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

In the wake of ISIS and other instances of radical Islam, how can Catholics make sure we don’t develop Islamaphobia toward our Muslim brothers and sisters? And I mean genuine Islamaphobia, not the kind that the secular culture rattles on about that amounts to anything that isn’t unquestionable acceptance of anything different.
This forum even has rules against posts that incite this kind of thing.

Though in a scan of the World News subforum, there are often threads reporting on things various men of the Catholic cloth have said on Islam being a dangerous threat to the entire world and such things aren’t considered Islamaphobic. Sure they’re often said by priests and bishops who have seen such terrorism firsthand like in Mosul, but justification is a tricky thing. I’m sure similar feelings about, say, the Japanese sprung up after the Imperialistic conquest of the Pacific and the Attack on Pearl Harbor. And look at how Japanese-American were treated after that.

The Cathechism also says there’s a special place in God’s Plan of Salvation for Muslims, that they too claim to worship the God of Abraham as we do and that God loves them with His Unconditional Everlasting Love as their Creator.

How can we know when the Enemy is starting to sew seeds of hate within us and trying to justify it as “They hate you, why not return the sentiment?” Because that’s just evil and not Christlike at all.

By ensuring our objections to Islam are based on what Islam actually teaches and not on what some Muslims do; and by ensuring our objections to what some Muslims do are based on the morality of their actions and not on their particular non-Catholic faith.

 

[theoda]

In the wake of ISIS and other instances of radical Islam, how can Catholics make sure we don’t develop Islamaphobia toward our Muslim brothers and sisters? And I mean genuine Islamaphobia, not the kind that the secular culture rattles on about that amounts to anything that isn’t unquestionable acceptance of anything different.
This forum even has rules against posts that incite this kind of thing.

Though in a scan of the World News subforum, there are often threads reporting on things various men of the Catholic cloth have said on Islam being a dangerous threat to the entire world and such things aren’t considered Islamaphobic. Sure they’re often said by priests and bishops who have seen such terrorism firsthand like in Mosul, but justification is a tricky thing. I’m sure similar feelings about, say, the Japanese sprung up after the Imperialistic conquest of the Pacific and the Attack on Pearl Harbor. And look at how Japanese-American were treated after that.

The Cathechism also says there’s a special place in God’s Plan of Salvation for Muslims, that they too claim to worship the God of Abraham as we do and that God loves them with His Unconditional Everlasting Love as their Creator.

How can we know when the Enemy is starting to sew seeds of hate within us and trying to justify it as “They hate you, why not return the sentiment?” Because that’s just evil and not Christlike at all.

There is something very wrong with your post. First of all, Muslims are not our brothers and sisters.(If you mean religiously, of course, however, we must treat them with love and respect)

Second, Mulsims don’t go to Heaven. You want me to cite infallible documents? Sure.

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

Also, nowhere in the catechism does it say that Muslims go to heaven.

Now this might sound harsh and you might accuse me of being unloving and non Christian. But I quote St. Pius X,

"Further, whilst Jesus was kind to sinners and to those who went astray, He did not respect their false ideas, however sincere they might have appeared. He loved them all, but He instructed them in order to convert them and save them.”

 

[theoda]

Also, in response to Islamphobia, Islam is a dangerous religion because it’s founder, Mohammad, was a man without morals. The Muslim extremists quote the Quran when they terrorize someone. Wherever Islam seems to travel to, violence also.

In Europe, there were a tons of violent protests from Mulsims when Israel invaded Gaza. Some Muslims in the netherlands also killed a guy because he insulted Muhammad.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

There is something very wrong with your post. First of all, Muslims are not our brothers and sisters.(If you mean religiously, of course, however, we must treat them with love and respect)

Second, Mulsims don’t go to Heaven. You want me to cite infallible documents? Sure.

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.”

Also, nowhere in the catechism does it say that Muslims go to heaven.

Now this might sound harsh and you might accuse me of being unloving and non Christian. But I quote St. Pius X,

"Further, whilst Jesus was kind to sinners and to those who went astray, He did not respect their false ideas, however sincere they might have appeared. He loved them all, but He instructed them in order to convert them and save them.”

So the Church teaches that we are “brothers and sisters” to only certain people and not all people because everyone was created by God? Please do tell.

Also, pretty sure the OP didn’t mention anything about Heaven.

 

[JorduSpeaks]

The Cathechism also says there’s a special place in God’s Plan of Salvation for Muslims, that they too claim to worship the God of Abraham as we do and that God loves them with His Unconditional Everlasting Love as their Creator.

The Muslims of the world do, indeed, have a special place in God’s plan for salvation, as the persecution they provide tends to fast track the salvation of their victims. In other words, Islamism facilitates salvation in much the same way as Emperor Nero.

As your post correctly noted, God’s love is unconditional, and remains true despite the various atrocities committed by some. Likewise, we are also called to love those poor, misguided souls who terrorize in the name of religion, but we should not let that love blind us to the evil that they do. Likewise, our love of Muslims should not keep us from speaking out in condemnation against the horrors Islam wreaks throughout much of the globe.

Don’t get me wrong, there are many Muslims, especially in the West, who reject the bloody example set forth by Mohammed, and choose to interpret his words in a more peaceful way. However, even these walk a dangerous path, as the villainous actions of Mohammed, combined with the more literal interpretations of the many exhortations to violence within the Koran and the Hadith that can be pointed to with ease by extremist groups and rogue Imams make it very easy for them to be led even further astray.

 

[Jon_S_1]

In the wake of ISIS and other instances of radical Islam, how can Catholics make sure we don’t develop Islamaphobia toward our Muslim brothers and sisters? And I mean genuine Islamaphobia, not the kind that the secular culture rattles on about that amounts to anything that isn’t unquestionable acceptance of anything different.
This forum even has rules against posts that incite this kind of thing.

Though in a scan of the World News subforum, there are often threads reporting on things various men of the Catholic cloth have said on Islam being a dangerous threat to the entire world and such things aren’t considered Islamaphobic. Sure they’re often said by priests and bishops who have seen such terrorism firsthand like in Mosul, but justification is a tricky thing. I’m sure similar feelings about, say, the Japanese sprung up after the Imperialistic conquest of the Pacific and the Attack on Pearl Harbor. And look at how Japanese-American were treated after that.

The Cathechism also says there’s a special place in God’s Plan of Salvation for Muslims, that they too claim to worship the God of Abraham as we do and that God loves them with His Unconditional Everlasting Love as their Creator.

How can we know when the Enemy is starting to sew seeds of hate within us and trying to justify it as “They hate you, why not return the sentiment?” Because that’s just evil and not Christlike at all.

Islam is something to be feared.

Not the secular westernized version but that’s a small minority.

The Islam of ISIS, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan, Jordan, Pakistan, Indinesia, etc.

They want one thing…to convert the world to Islam by the sword of necessary.

Don’t be blinded to reality…history speaks for itself and Muslims themselves say it plainly everyday.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

The Muslims of the world do, indeed, have a special place in God’s plan for salvation, as the persecution they provide tends to fast track the salvation of their victims. In other words, Islamism facilitates salvation in much the same way as Emperor Nero.

Seriously? That’s why they worded the CCC the way they did?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Islam is something to be feared.

Not the secular westernized version but that’s a small minority.

The Islam of ISIS, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan, Jordan, Pakistan, Indinesia, etc.

They want one thing…to convert the world to Islam by the sword of necessary.

Don’t be blinded to reality…history speaks for itself and Muslims themselves say it plainly everyday.

What percentage of Muslims in the world do you think are Islamic extremists?

 

[Exiled_Child]

In the wake of ISIS and other instances of radical Islam, how can Catholics make sure we don’t develop Islamaphobia toward our Muslim brothers and sisters? And I mean genuine Islamaphobia, not the kind that the secular culture rattles on about that amounts to anything that isn’t unquestionable acceptance of anything different.
This forum even has rules against posts that incite this kind of thing.

Though in a scan of the World News subforum, there are often threads reporting on things various men of the Catholic cloth have said on Islam being a dangerous threat to the entire world and such things aren’t considered Islamaphobic. Sure they’re often said by priests and bishops who have seen such terrorism firsthand like in Mosul, but justification is a tricky thing. I’m sure similar feelings about, say, the Japanese sprung up after the Imperialistic conquest of the Pacific and the Attack on Pearl Harbor. And look at how Japanese-American were treated after that.

The Cathechism also says there’s a special place in God’s Plan of Salvation for Muslims, that they too claim to worship the God of Abraham as we do and that God loves them with His Unconditional Everlasting Love as their Creator.

How can we know when the Enemy is starting to sew seeds of hate within us and trying to justify it as “They hate you, why not return the sentiment?” Because that’s just evil and not Christlike at all.

I think it’s a great question, WonderandAwe, and I think the comparison to Japanese internment camps here in American is the perfect historical comparison. It’s just one of those things that’s between us and God alone. Our relationship with God is wholly private, and so is our response and understanding to this current situation. I’ve attempted opening people’s eyes to this, and I’ve come to the conclusion that it just isn’t possible no matter what we say. Media indoctrination cuts too deep.

 

[WonderAndAwe]

So the Church teaches that we are “brothers and sisters” to only certain people and not all people because everyone was created by God? Please do tell.

Also, pretty sure the OP didn’t mention anything about Heaven.

I didn’t. By calling Muslims “our brothers and sisters,” I acknowledged that we are all part of the same human family.

Secondly, only God can judge the weight of souls, so saying Muslims can’t go to Heaven is actually rather false. A Muslim, in their last moments of life might be offered one last chance to say “YES” to Christ, but I don’t know that. Nor will I discount it. No mortal man can know the bounds of Divine Mercy.

 

[theoda]

So the Church teaches that we are “brothers and sisters” to only certain people and not all people because everyone was created by God? Please do tell.

Also, pretty sure the OP didn’t mention anything about Heaven.

We are brothers in sisters in Christ only to those in the Catholic Church. Outside the Church, they are brothers and sisters that we need to convert.

Also, I’m pretty sure he did mention about heaven. He said God has his own plan for salvation for Muslims. This is utterly false.

 

[theoda]

I didn’t. By calling Muslims “our brothers and sisters,” I acknowledged that we are all part of the same human family.

Secondly, only God can judge the weight of souls, so saying Muslims can’t go to Heaven is actually rather false. A Muslim, in their last moments of life might be offered one last chance to say “YES” to Christ, but I don’t know that. Nor will I discount it. No mortal man can know the bounds of Divine Mercy.

Did you bother to read the infallible quotes. It has been infallibly stated in an Ecunemical council, there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. It is infallibly stated in the Bible, no man can enter heaven without Baptism(this isn’t a direct quote but paraphrased). Baptism of desire is different.

If the Muslim in his last moments says yes to Christ then he doesn’t become a Muslim anymore but a Catholic! Then he could get into heaven. If he still denounces the divinity of a christ, he doesn’t.

 

[JorduSpeaks]

What percentage of Muslims in the world do you think are Islamic extremists?

We can never know what is in a person’s heart, so we can never know what percentage of Muslims actually hold extremist beliefs.

What we do know is that in the vast majority of places where Islam is the dominant religion, it is the “extremist” interpretation that is most widely accepted and taught by Islam’s religious scholars and spiritual leaders.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

We are brothers in sisters in Christ only to those in the Catholic Church. Outside the Church, they are brothers and sisters that we need to convert.

Also, I’m pretty sure he did mention about heaven. He said God has his own plan for salvation for Muslims. This is utterly false.

He didn’t mention Heaven at all, what he did do was to quote the CCC which you apparently view as “utterly false.”

 

[theoda]

The Muslims of the world do, indeed, have a special place in God’s plan for salvation, as the persecution they provide tends to fast track the salvation of their victims. In other words, Islamism facilitates salvation in much the same way as Emperor Nero.

As your post correctly noted, God’s love is unconditional, and remains true despite the various atrocities committed by some. Likewise, we are also called to love those poor, misguided souls who terrorize in the name of religion, but we should not let that love blind us to the evil that they do. Likewise, our love of Muslims should not keep us from speaking out in condemnation against the horrors Islam wreaks throughout much of the globe.

Don’t get me wrong, there are many Muslims, especially in the West, who reject the bloody example set forth by Mohammed, and choose to interpret his words in a more peaceful way. However, even these walk a dangerous path, as the villainous actions of Mohammed, combined with the more literal interpretations of the many exhortations to violence within the Koran and the Hadith that can be pointed to with ease by extremist groups and rogue Imams make it very easy for them to be led even further astray.

Muslims do not go to heaven unless they repent. No one, even if they shed blood in the name of Christ, goes to heaven unless they are baptized into the Catholic Church. This is infallible. You can’t disobey it. It is both in Scriputee and Tradition.

 

[theoda]

Islam is something to be feared.

Not the secular westernized version but that’s a small minority.

The Islam of ISIS, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan, Jordan, Pakistan, Indinesia, etc.

They want one thing…to convert the world to Islam by the sword of necessary.

Don’t be blinded to reality…history speaks for itself and Muslims themselves say it plainly everyday.

Agree. We surely don’t want another Crusades to have to happen.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

We can never know what is in a person’s heart, so we can never know what percentage of Muslims actually hold extremist beliefs.

What we do know is that in the vast majority of places where Islam is the dominant religion, it is the “extremist” interpretation that is most widely accepted and taught by Islam’s religious scholars and spiritual leaders.

So given the conclusion in your second part of the above you should be able to provide an answer to the question of what percentage of Muslims do you think are Islamic extremists. What would that percentage be?

 

[theoda]

He didn’t mention Heaven at all, what he did do was to quote the CCC which you apparently view as “utterly false.”

"The Cathechism also says there’s a special place in God’s Plan of Salvation for Muslims"

This is what he said. Salvation means to be saved. He is saying God has a plan for Muslims to be saved, meaning going to heaven

He didn’t quote catechism at all, he said that in the catechism it says this but it doesn’t.

I quoted infallible documents that clearly state that there is no salvation for non-Catholics. Do you view this as false?

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

 

[WonderAndAwe]

Islam is something to be feared.

Not the secular westernized version but that’s a small minority.

The Islam of ISIS, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan, Jordan, Pakistan, Indinesia, etc.

They want one thing…to convert the world to Islam by the sword of necessary.

Don’t be blinded to reality…history speaks for itself and Muslims themselves say it plainly everyday.

And this is justified by what is seen in the world.

The Koran does advocate evangelization through violence and there are many accounts of Muslims doing violent actions justified by their scripture.

BUT that throws every Muslim who isn’t violent, doesn’t actively want to kill infidels and is just as disgusted and terrified by radical Islam. Remember when God told Abraham that He will destroy Sodom and Abraham spoke of the innocents from 50 and down to even just 10 that it would be unjust to kill them along with the wicked? Why must the innocent and just be thrown under the bus along with the truly wicked?