Islamic claim: Jesus never claimed to be Son of God & Didn't really die on the cross.???? Prove it!

[Church_Militant]

Taken from another thread…

Hi

I don’t agree with the Evenglical/s mainly for two main reasons:

First:

Jesus was Son of Mary and he himself declared that he was Son of Adam/Man; so morally they are not entitled to reject his testimony so blatantly and make him God or Son of God.

Second:

Jesus never died a cursed death on Cross, though he was put on Cross and nailed down there but he was delivered neardead but nevertheless alive. Since he never died so there is no question of his resurrection and becoming God as the Evenglical/s believe; he cannot atone their sins. Only GodAllahYHWH can forgive sins after repentance by the sinners and showing resolve that they would refrain from sins.

Thanks

ooooookkaaaaayyy…

I’m just dying to see your proofs of all this.

Anyone can make that claim, now prove it?

 

[paarsurrey]

I’m just dying to see your proofs of all this.

Hi

You are such a nice person; I don’t want that you should die; rather you should live and enjoy your life with your friends and family.

JesusYeshuaIssa said that he would show no sign to the adulterous Jews accept the Sign of Jonah. Kindly read the real story of Jonah in the OTBible to refresh your memory about him.

1. Jonah went in the belly of the fish alive.
2. Jonah was alive in the belly of the fish; that is why he prayed there and his prayer was heard by GodAllahYHWH.
3. Jonah came out of the fish alive; Jonah did not die for even a moment during this entire episode.
4. Jonah went to the city he was appointed as a MessengerProphet of GodAllahYHWH.
5. Jonah was accepted by the people he was sent.

JesusYeshuaIssa, we believe, showed this last sign - his greatest and wonderful sign; then he should have never died on the Cross though he was nailed down and iflicted with injuries on the cross, yet he was delivered near-dead but very much alive. He was treated in the tomb where he was laid and when he gained consciousness and recovered from the injuries he came out and was seen by so many.

To prove and believe that JesusYeshuaIssa was a truthful person and not a fake, as Jews held, we cannot deny that he never died a cursed death on the Cross.

Thanks

 

[morning_star777]

mr paarsurrey,in new testament jesus claimed that he is son of god.so?wat do you think about it?

 

[planten]

mr paarsurrey,in new testament jesus claimed that he is son of god.so?wat do you think about it?

** I agree with paarsurrey that Jesus never died any type of death on the cross. Before going into the belly of the earth (tomb), Jesus should have been alive as was the Prophet Jonas alive before going into the belly of the fish.

**

 

[morning_star777]

mr.planten you agree with mr.paarsurrey that jesus never died on cross.very good.but mr.paarsurrey belive mirza gulam ahmad as a prophet and messiah.so are you also agree with mr.paarsurrey in this case?

 

[Church_Militant]

Yet all of you are wrong as is whoever taught you that.

Look at what the New Testament actually says about Jesus’ death.

Mark 15:[37] And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed his last.

Luke 23:[46] Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.

John 19:[30] When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished”; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Then further,

John 19:[31] Since it was the day of Preparation, in order to prevent the bodies from remaining on the cross on the sabbath (for that sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
[32] So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him;
[33] but when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
[34] But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water.
[35] He who saw it has borne witness – his testimony is true, and he knows that he tells the truth – that you also may believe.
[36] For these things took place that the scripture might be fulfilled, “Not a bone of him shall be broken.”
[37] And again another scripture says, “They shall look on him whom they have pierced.”

No, the New Testament is clear about this

 

[ralphinal]

Paar’s position would hold some amount of water had Jesus not been stabbed with the lance. At that point, he would have bled out, if not died right then.

Some Muslims hold that he never was on the cross in the first place. That position is more tenuous.

 

[inJESUS]

** I agree with paarsurrey that Jesus never died any type of death on the cross. Before going into the belly of the earth (tomb), Jesus should have been alive as was the Prophet Jonas alive before going into the belly of the fish.

**

by this reasoning, Jesus should have entered a fish belly as well. Analogies, Planten, are not to be taken with their fullest details, and Jesus specified TIME .

 

[inJESUS]

Church Militant, do you know how the Gnostics interpreted Jesus’ death? if you don’t , read it, and you will understand the origin of Muhammad’s words.

 

[swariffin]

mr.planten you agree with mr.paarsurrey that jesus never died on cross.very good.but mr.paarsurrey belive mirza gulam ahmad as a prophet and messiah.so are you also agree with mr.paarsurrey in this case?

Dear brother Jewel,

Our brother Paar also introduced Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as (a) Reformer of Muhammad, (b) Successor of Muhammad, and (c) Caliph of Muhammad. As a matter of fact, I have no problem with that. Just an addition, elaborating further will be off topic.

 

[Angelos]

** I agree with paarsurrey that Jesus never died any type of death on the cross. Before going into the belly of the earth (tomb), Jesus should have been alive as was the Prophet Jonas alive before going into the belly of the fish.

**

Your weird insistence on extending the analogy between Jonah and Jesus’ sign further than the sameness of the length of period spent in **different **places will lead you and all people who think like you to the following absurd and faulty conclusions:

1) Jesus was sent NOT to Jews, but to Gentiles in the same way as Jonah was.

2) Jesus was punished by God because He had not obeyed God’s commandment to preach to the Gentiles in the same way as Jonah was.

3) Jesus understood His mistake and asked Jews to kill Him in the same way as Jonah understood his mistake and asked the passengers on the boat to throw him into the sea.

4) Jesus was swallowed by His tomb, which was an animate object that moved to Golgotha and went back in the same way as Jonah was swallowed by a fish that took Jonah into its mouth and returned to the depths of the sea.

**5) **Jesus returned to the Gentiles after staying alive in the tomb and preached to them in the same way as Jonah returned to Nineveh after staying alive in the fish and preached the people.

6) The Gentiles believed in Jesus and repented when Jesus was with them in the same way as the people of Nineveh believed in Jonah and repented.

7) Jesus was angry with God because the Gentiles converted in the same way as Jonah.

 

[tomshaikh]

Are you Jew The Original Thread Poster. We do not have to prove any thing. Its mentioned in Last Holy Book. Quran-4:157-158 i.e, the main point. The One and ONly Above will not now tell you everything. Coz you asked for food to serve from heaven. you asked for vegetable instead of heaven fruits. And last thing which is man woo you asked to see him. Whats that guyz. So One and Only Above is ___________________ what ever you think bad and fill in the blank. May One and Only Above Guide Us All To The Right Path.

 

[inJESUS]

Angelos

 

[planten]

by this reasoning, Jesus should have entered a fish belly as well. Analogies, Planten, are not to be taken with their fullest details, and Jesus specified TIME .

** No not the belly of the fish. Jesus could never go into the belly of the fish because he said that he will be in the belly of the earth as jonas was in the belly of the fish. So please prove: Was Jesus in the belly of the earth as was Jonas in the belly of the fish. No. Not at all.

The time matters. But it is not time only. There are other things too. And Jesus could not die even for a moment as Jonas did not die.**

 

[Angelos]

** No not the belly of the fish. Jesus could never go into the belly of the fish because he said that he will be in the belly of the earth as jonas was in the belly of the fish. So please prove: Was Jesus in the belly of the earth as was Jonas in the belly of the fish. No. Not at all.

The time matters. But it is not time only. There are other things too. And Jesus could not die even for a moment as Jonas did not die.**

Even a simple linguist like me can readily rebut this fallacious claim of yours for the 100th time in a month with the help of Jesus’ deliberate contrast between Jonah’s and His state:

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonah was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights: so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

The bold parts indicate the similarity (comparison) between Jonah and Jesus with regard to the lenght of time related to the sign whereas the underlined parts indicate the difference (contrast) between Jonah and Jesus with regard to their states resulting from remaining in different places! Jesus made it clear that He would stay in a different place than Jonah did. This contrast drawn by Jesus between a grave and a fish entails Jesus’ death after the crucifixion since only dead people stay in the heart of the earth, NOT alive ones!

You will realize and abandon your faulty reasoning and interpretation as soon as you find out why in Luke Jesus does NOT draw parallelism between Jonah’s and His sign on the basis of the lenght of time both Jonah and He Himself spent in different places. (Let me give you a clue: only Matthew recounts why Jewish authorities went to Pilate and demanded the sealing of the stone that lay at the entrance of Jesus’ tomb right after Jesus’ burial.)

 

[AlessandraRose]

Taken from another thread…ooooookkaaaaayyy…

I’m just dying to see your proofs of all this.

Anyone can make that claim, now prove it?

I would like to see Perssus prove to us that he didn’t die and he is NOT the Son of God!
There was PLENTY of proof for me to turn me away from Islam. I guess it boils down to what or who “you” consider valid evidence or whitnesses.

 

[morning_star777]

lets back to the title.actually islam claims many things but they can’t prove anything.cuz they have only 1 blunt weapon,a fiction book named quran(i would like to tell it as a horror book,cuz the punishment for non muslim in hell is really horror.only a devil can punish ppl in this way).their inheritance law prove that quran had been writen by an illiterate man.cuz there 2 very simple mathematical mistake,only ignorant man can made this

 

[planten]

lets back to the title.actually islam claims many things but they can’t prove anything.cuz they have only 1 blunt weapon,a fiction book named quran(i would like to tell it as a horror book,cuz the punishment for non muslim in hell is really horror.only a devil can punish ppl in this way).their inheritance law prove that quran had been writen by an illiterate man.cuz there 2 very simple mathematical mistake,only ignorant man can made this

**There is no mistake in Quran. The punishment of hell is mentioned in the bible NT too. “There will be gnawing of teeth there…”

Now about the inheritance laws of Islam. They are perfect by all means. At least you do not have any inheritance laws in the bible NT. In fact you do not have any law at all in Catholic system. The law that was for you (The law of Moses) that you have discarded on the behest of Saul. So you have no law now. very good riddence. Free for all in every way.

Niether law for marriage nor any for divorce. Nothing about cleanliness in the bible (as well described in bible OT) and nothing about piety.

So please you should not talk about any law of the Muslims.**

 

[morning_star777]

mr.planten i told before that i read few chapters of bible.so i can’t talk about it.but in another thread THE MAJOR FLAWS OF ISLAM you wanted some time to prove the inheritance law.me&mr agnos thiest were agree.so do you want more time or ready to prove?if you are ready then pls post your reply to THE MAJOR FLAWS OF ISLAM again.thanks

 

[Angelos]

**
Now about the inheritance laws of Islam. They are perfect by all means. At least you do not have any inheritance laws in the bible NT. In fact you do not have any law at all in Catholic system. The law that was for you (The law of Moses) that you have discarded on the behest of Saul. So you have no law now. very good riddence. Free for all in every way.**

You are sadly out of arguments and words. This is why you are trying to save faces by evading the problems in Islam and by resorting to digression.

Your Koran would have had no Laws if Mohammad had not been a successful warrior and dictator after migration to Medina. Your Allah needed the establishment of the Islamic state so as to reveal his precepts all of a sudden.

**
Niether law for marriage nor any for divorce. Nothing about cleanliness in the bible (as well described in bible OT) and nothing about piety.

So please you should not talk about any law of the Muslims.**

First, what does your Koran teach about piety? The words HOLY and SANCTIFY almost never occur in the Koran!!! Rituals of physical cleaning (mostly taken from Judaism) do not cause spiritual cleanliness either.

Second, Jesus’ sermon on the Mount is the pinnacle of Golden Rules for every human being.

Third, the dietary laws in the Koran are arbitrary and inconsistent. (For instance, Muslims do not eat snails and frogs although the Koran does not prohibit or even mention them!)

Fourth, the marital precepts in the Koran are impertinent to God’s primary design at the beginning of creation.

Finally, one does not have to get a Law like the one in Islam in order to criticise Islam and its rules.