Islamic claim: Jesus never claimed to be Son of God & Didn't really die on the cross.???? Prove it!

[AlessandraRose]

You are sadly out of arguments and words. This is why you are trying to save faces by evading the problems in Islam and by resorting to digression.

Your Koran would have had no Laws if Mohammad had not been a successful warrior and dictator after migration to Medina. Your Allah needed the establishment of the Islamic state so as to reveal his precepts all of a sudden.

First, what does your Koran teach about piety? The words HOLY and SANCTIFY almost never occur in the Koran!!! Rituals of physical cleaning (mostly taken from Judaism) do not cause spiritual cleanliness either.

Second, Jesus’ sermon on the Mount is the pinnacle of Golden Rules for every human being.

Third, the dietary laws in the Koran are arbitrary and inconsistent. (For instance, Muslims do not eat snails and frogs although the Koran does not prohibit or even mention them!)

Fourth, the marital precepts in the Koran are impertinent to God’s primary design at the beginning of creation.

Finally, one does not have to get a Law like the one in Islam in order to criticise Islam and its rules.

 

[Angelos]

 

[tomshaikh]

Originally Posted by Angelos
You are sadly out of arguments and words. This is why you are trying to save faces by evading the problems in Islam and by resorting to digression.

Your Koran would have had no Laws if Mohammad had not been a successful warrior and dictator after migration to Medina. Your Allah needed the establishment of the Islamic state so as to reveal his precepts all of a sudden.

First, what does your Koran teach about piety? The words HOLY and SANCTIFY almost never occur in the Koran!!! Rituals of physical cleaning (mostly taken from Judaism) do not cause spiritual cleanliness either.

Second, Jesus’ sermon on the Mount is the pinnacle of Golden Rules for every human being.

Third, the dietary laws in the Koran are arbitrary and inconsistent. (For instance, Muslims do not eat snails and frogs although the Koran does not prohibit or even mention them!)

Fourth, the marital precepts in the Koran are impertinent to God’s primary design at the beginning of creation.

Finally, one does not have to get a Law like the one in Islam in order to criticise Islam and its rules.

I want to make option for you to come on the right track. But for you have this Al-Quran Verses.


Al-Kafiroon
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Say (O Muhammad (SAW) to these Mushrikûn and Kâfirûn): "O Al-Kâfirûn (disbelievers in Allâh, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar)! (1) "I worship not that which you worship, (2) "Nor will you worship that which I worship. (3) "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping. (4) "Nor will you worship that which I worship. (5) "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islâmic Monotheism)." (6) Quran-109:1-6

 

[Angelos]

I want to make option for you to come on the right track. But for you have this Al-Quran Verses.

Al-Kafiroon
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Say (O Muhammad (SAW) to these Mushrikûn and Kâfirûn): "O Al-Kâfirûn (disbelievers in Allâh, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar)! (1) "I worship not that which you worship, (2) "Nor will you worship that which I worship. (3) "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping. (4) "Nor will you worship that which I worship. (5) “To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islâmic Monotheism).” (6) Quran-109:1-6

My response:

O Angelos! say to those Muslims who replace truth with falsehood by preferring Mohammad to JESUS .I do not believe as you believe. I do not follow the Scripture you read. I shall neither follow your scripture nor fall for your lies concerning Jesus and His Gospel. To you be your religion, to me be the faith of perfection in TRUTH and GRACE.

 

[tomshaikh]

My response:

O Angelos! say to those Muslims who replace truth with falsehood by preferring Mohammad to JESUS .I do not believe as you believe. I do not follow the Scripture you read. I shall neither follow your scripture nor fall for your lies concerning Jesus and His Gospel. To you be your religion, to me be the faith of perfection in TRUTH and GRACE.

Hehehehehehe You just cursed your uncle and people. Coz that Quran Verses is the unbelieving people at Prophet Muhammad pbuh times. Which include his Uncle. Abu Luhab and other unbelievers.

 

[Ron21]

john 4:24 ‘God is spirit and only by the power of his spirit can people worship him as he really is’

Jesus is referring to God the father. so you cant worship god without the holy spirit…the Spirit of God only rests on those who accept Jesus as the messiah and as God. Jesus is God basically…

 

[planten]

mr.planten i told before that i read few chapters of bible.so i can’t talk about it.but in another thread THE MAJOR FLAWS OF ISLAM you wanted some time to prove the inheritance law.me&mr agnos thiest were agree.so do you want more time or ready to prove?if you are ready then pls post your reply to THE MAJOR FLAWS OF ISLAM again.thanks

**About the inheritance questions, I had described the shares of each person without much research. Later I found that it was correct. So no more need of posting on that matter.

If there is any more questions of any nature then the same may be asked again. I will try to respond. Welcome.**

 

[planten]

You are sadly out of arguments and words. This is why you are trying to save faces by evading the problems in Islam and by resorting to digression.

No such thing. You should point out.

Your Koran would have had no Laws if Mohammad had not been a successful warrior and dictator after migration to Medina. Your Allah needed the establishment of the Islamic state so as to reveal his precepts all of a sudden.

You have admitted that christianity has no laws at all. You have also admitted that Quran has given some laws. So who is lawless?

First, what does your Koran teach about piety? The words HOLY and SANCTIFY almost never occur in the Koran!!! Rituals of physical cleaning (mostly taken from Judaism) do not cause spiritual cleanliness either.

Second, Jesus’ sermon on the Mount is the pinnacle of Golden Rules for every human being.

You cannot say Islam took things from Judaism. Nobody will believe you. Then it could be said that Jesus took things from the Egyptians where he lived for first twelve years. See?

Third, the dietary laws in the Koran are arbitrary and inconsistent. (For instance, Muslims do not eat snails and frogs although the Koran does not prohibit or even mention them!)

At least we have some laws like the Jews. Sensible people. Christians are eating the flesh of swine which Jesus abhorted. So the present day christians are not the real followers of Jesus. Jesus used to pray to his God. These christians pray to Jesus who was a creature created by the God.

Fourth, the marital precepts in the Koran are impertinent to God’s primary design at the beginning of creation.

You want to go back to the stone age now?

Finally, one does not have to get a Law like the one in Islam in order to criticise Islam and its rules.

** You do need any law. But the rest of the world have laws.**

 

[planten]

My response:

O Angelos! say to those Muslims who replace truth with falsehood by preferring Mohammad to JESUS .I do not believe as you believe. I do not follow the Scripture you read. I shall neither follow your scripture nor fall for your lies concerning Jesus and His Gospel. To you be your religion, to me be the faith of perfection in TRUTH and GRACE.

From where did you get that?? Your self generated response. It has no meaning, no validity. Please bring from your book. Then people will pay attention. We see that your book is weak and quiet. But you are advocating and trying to advocate things which are not in your book (the bible NT). That is like in any case in court, they say, The complainant is quiet and lazy but the witness is smarter (Muddaee sust Gawaah chust).

 

[planten]

john 4:24 ‘God is spirit and only by the power of his spirit can people worship him as he really is’

Jesus is referring to God the father. so you cant worship god without the holy spirit…the Spirit of God only rests on those who accept Jesus as the messiah and as God. Jesus is God basically…

**Sorry, Jesus is not god really. He was created by God by some means. I allow your first sentence: ‘God is spirit and only by the power of his spirit can people worship him as he really is’

God sends his holy spirit to all his messengers Abraham and Ishmael and Issac and Joseph son of Jacob and Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. It is the spirit of God (The arch angel Gabriel) who brings all messages in various ways. He is the holy spirit. That holy spirit is an angel, a spirit from God.
So the message is conveyed to the people through the human messengers, Moses and Jesus amd Muhammad and many others. So we all pray according to the spirit from God.**

 

[swariffin]

**
God sends his holy spirit to all his messengers Abraham and **Ishmael ****and Issac and Joseph son of Jacob and Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. It is the spirit of God (The arch angel Gabriel) who brings all messages in various ways. He is the holy spirit. That holy spirit is an angel, a spirit from God.
So the message is conveyed to the people through the human messengers, Moses and Jesus amd Muhammad and many others. So we all pray according to the spirit from God.

Where is Ishmael ever mentioned in Quran?

 

[inJESUS]

God sends his holy spirit to all his messengers Abraham and Ishmael and Issac and Joseph son of Jacob and Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. It is the spirit of God (The arch angel Gabriel)

 

[Angelos]

No such thing. You should point out.

You always come up with new arguments and falsely attack Christianity when your theories are easily debunked.

**
You have admitted that christianity has no laws at all. You have also admitted that Quran has given some laws. So who is lawless?**

Now you are putting your own words into my mouth (nice traditional Islamic tactic!). We Christians have the Law of Love versus the Law of sin and death! Having a different law than the one in the Koran does not necessarily make Christianity a lawless religion!

**
You cannot say Islam took things from Judaism. Nobody will believe you. Then it could be said that Jesus took things from the Egyptians where he lived for first twelve years. See?**

The things Islam adopted from Judaism are clear as day light! What tenets did Jesus take from Egyptians? Who told you that Jesus stayed in Egypt for twelve years???

**
At least we have some laws like the Jews. Sensible people. Christians are eating the flesh of swine which Jesus abhorted. So the present day christians are not the real followers of Jesus. Jesus used to pray to his God. These christians pray to Jesus who was a creature created by the God.**

Where do you read in the Bible or Koran that Jesus abhorred the pork? Your very scripture vaguely states that Jesus was sent to Israel to sanction some of the previously impure food. More to the point, Jesus was born under the Mosaic Law, and that same Law designated the flesh of camel impure! Should I say that Jesus is angry with you Muslims because you consume camel, which is an impure animal in the Law?

**
You want to go back to the stone age now?**

You are seriously running out of rationality and logic now. Besides, I did not know the Koran argued that Adam and Eve lived in the stone age. Maybe the first parents of human race were deceived by a dinasour rather than by a serpent.

**
You do need any law. But the rest of the world have laws.**

We Christians obey the secular laws of our states in addition to the individual law of faith & love in Christ.

 

[Angelos]

From where did you get that?? Your self generated response. It has no meaning, no validity. Please bring from your book. Then people will pay attention. We see that your book is weak and quiet. But you are advocating and trying to advocate things which are not in your book (the bible NT). That is like in any case in court, they say, The complainant is quiet and lazy but the witness is smarter (Muddaee sust Gawaah chust).

I imitated Mohammad while posting my self-generated response and attributing it to God!

My response has no meaning and validity for YOU in the same way as your Scripture has no meaning and validity for ME.

Further, I refute your claim that my statements and I can be judged by Islamic values and notions.

 

[Angelos]

Hehehehehehe You just cursed your uncle and people. Coz that Quran Verses is the unbelieving people at Prophet Muhammad pbuh times. Which include his Uncle. Abu Luhab and other unbelievers.

HUH?

Did I recite an Islamic spell by mistake?

 

[planten]

Where is Ishmael ever mentioned in Quran?

** Thanks for asking. Please see the Quran: The name of Ishmael has appeared at 12 places in the Quran as follows:

2:125, 2:127, 2:133, 2:136, 2:140, 3:84, 4:163, 6:86, 14:39, 19:54, 21:85, 38:48. Please try to see the Quran. Thanks.**

 

[ryanoneil]

** In fact you do not have any law at all in Catholic system. The law that was for you (The law of Moses) that you have discarded on the behest of Saul. So you have no law now. very good riddence. Free for all in every way.

Niether law for marriage nor any for divorce. Nothing about cleanliness in the bible (as well described in bible OT) and nothing about piety.
**

Paul did not discard the law of Christ, which fulfilled the law of Mosses. Christians have law, whether they admit it or not. The ones who won’t admit it are fooling themselves.

Owe nothing to anyone, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; you shall not kill; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this saying, (namely) “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no evil to the neighbor; hence, love is the fulfillment of the law. (Rom 13:8-10)

If you want to read the law of Christ click
Matthew 5
Matthew 6
Matthew 7

As far as Catholic law, someone has lied to you. Catholics are accussed of having to much law. (by some protestants) There is so much law you would not have the stomach to read it all. click here

I hope that helps. Do you have any links to Muslim law? Thank you.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[inJESUS]

Of course we have a Law but methink when Muslims talk about the law, they mean things like : eat this and not that, drink this and not that, pray like this and kneel like that and wash in this manner?

 

[Lilyflower]

Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God?

This made the Jews really angry and determined to kill Him because He was not only breaking the sabbath but by calling God His own Father, he claimed equality with God’. Jn 5:18

‘What the Father does, the Son does’. Jn 5: 19

‘To deny honour to the Son is to deny honour to the Father’ Jn 5: 23

It seems pretty clear to me!

 

[planten]

God did not say His Holy Spirit is an angel. Since God is truthful to His Word, then whoever told you this is not truthful.