Islamic Dress

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firstmode said:
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You want me to be honest? I feel like I’m looking at an assassin who wants my head by order of the sultan.

The charges? For affiliating with a female Catholic paladin and having a psychotic ninja for a sister, both who had, er, very intersting means of rejecting the good sultan’s equally… amusing advances. >_<;;;
 
Spirithound said:
But why specifically does this matter?
(I’m just neutrally pushing you to make articulate and philosophical posts)
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Well to start, the Catechism does admit that forms of modesty are relative while the virtue itself is not. Pairing that with my own understanding of modesty (which includes a few dictionary definitions of the word), I’ve come to conclude that it has less (if not nothing) to do with superficial standards of appearances and more with what degree of attention one draws to oneself.

Certainly one who dresses in the manner of ancient Jewish women in the midst of an urban population (with its heavy, crowded mix of printed shirts, business suits, jeans, pants, skirts of varying lengths, shoes, sneakers, high-heels, fedoras, beanies, caps, hairstyles etc…) is going to draw more attention than the geek with a hoodie or the punk chick in sleeveless.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
Well to start, the Catechism does admit that forms of modesty are relative while the virtue itself is not. Pairing that with my own understanding of modesty (which includes a few dictionary definitions of the word), I’ve come to conclude that it has less (if not nothing) to do with superficial standards of appearances and more with what degree of attention one draws to oneself.

Certainly one who dresses in the manner of ancient Jewish women in the midst of an urban population (with its heavy, crowded mix of printed shirts, business suits, jeans, pants, skirts of varying lengths, shoes, sneakers, high-heels, fedoras, beanies, caps, hairstyles etc…) is going to draw more attention than the geek with a hoodie or the punk chick in sleeveless.
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How might one apply your view to nuns, who do dress very much like most of the statues of Mary I’ve seen?
 
Spirithound said:
How might one apply your view to nuns, who do dress very much like most of the statues of Mary I’ve seen?
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Not quite. Which nuns are we talking here? Different orders can have different habits, colors, and even symbols. You can argue that it is derived but a derivation isn’t exactly the same thing is it? Furthermore nuns do attract a bit of attention but only as so far as police officers, firefighters, nurses, and uniformed students do because well, it acts as a sort of uniform that identifies them as nuns.
 
Spirithound said:
How might one apply your view to nuns, who do dress very much like most of the statues of Mary I’ve seen?
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If I were to walk around in a cassock, I wonder what would people think…? Would they admire my zeal for embracing the Church, or would they mock me and call me an imposter…?

I think it’s best to just blend in, unless that is you have earned a certain title that requires a more distinguishable attire.

Our job as Catholics is to be the light of the world -in the world. Not to isolate ourselves as a “special” people.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
Pairing that with my own understanding of modesty, I’ve come to conclude that it has less more with what degree of attention one draws to oneself.

Certainly one who dresses in the manner of ancient Jewish women in the midst of an urban population is going to draw more attention than the geek with a hoodie or the punk chick in sleeveless.
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Lost_Wanderer said:
Not quite. Which nuns are we talking here? Different orders can have different habits, colors, and even symbols. You can argue that it is derived but a derivation isn’t exactly the same thing is it? Furthermore nuns do attract a bit of attention but only as so far as police officers, firefighters, nurses, and uniformed students do because well, it acts as a sort of uniform that identifies them as nuns.
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http://sttheresedelisieux-wellington.myownparish.com/images/sttherese.gif
How about this nun? 🙂 I’m not properly sure whether the Carmelite habit is a derivation of 1st century Palestinian garb, but honestly, I don’t see any salient difference. Yes, certain parts of the habit have symbolic value to the order and to the individual, but I, for one, am completely ignorant of any of that. I just see a woman dressed as I assume Mary would dress.

I can acknowledge that a nun’s habit functions as a sort of uniform, but doesn’t a Muslim woman’s hijab/niqab/burqa also do that? I don’t think it matters that being Muslim is not a job, or that she would be given less esteem than a nun; her clothing has the same effect.
 
TEPO said:
If I were to walk around in a cassock, I wonder what would people think…? Would they admire my zeal for embracing the Church, or would they mock me and call me an imposter…?

I think it’s best to just blend in, unless that is you have earned a certain title that requires a more distinguishable attire.

Our job as Catholics is to be the light of the world -in the world. Not to isolate ourselves as a “special” people.
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I don’t think priesthood or religious life can properly be talked about as “earning” a title. I would tend to agree with you that one should dress according to one’s station in life, but how does that help us distinguish between the clothing and the modesty of a nun and a Muslim woman?
 
TEPO said:
If I were to walk around in a cassock, I wonder what would people think…? Would they admire my zeal for embracing the Church, or would they mock me and call me an imposter…?

I think it’s best to just blend in, unless that is you have earned a certain title that requires a more distinguishable attire.

Our job as Catholics is to be the light of the world -in the world. Not to isolate ourselves as a “special” people.
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Or how about a man dressed modestly as a woman.

Is that ok for everyone that sees nothing wrong with a burka or face veil?

How about someone walking around in a ski mask? lol! or a woman’s stocking over their face?

Unless it is a very cold day, winter or dust and sand is blowing someone covering their face has something to hide. They are hiding, covering their identity.

Maybe we should start walking around with a paper bag over our heads!!!
 
Spirithound said:
http://sttheresedelisieux-wellington.myownparish.com/images/sttherese.gif
How about this nun? 🙂 I’m not properly sure whether the Carmelite habit is a derivation of 1st century Palestinian garb, but honestly, I don’t see any salient difference. Yes, certain parts of the habit have symbolic value to the order and to the individual, but I, for one, am completely ignorant of any of that. I just see a woman dressed as I assume Mary would dress.

I can acknowledge that a nun’s habit functions as a sort of uniform, but doesn’t a Muslim woman’s hijab/niqab/burqa also do that? I don’t think it matters that being Muslim is not a job, or that she would be given less esteem than a nun; her clothing has the same effect.
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Her face is not covered as with a face veil and burka.

She can be identified.

For a person that reads lips she would be easy to understand.

We can read her facial expressions- the calm peace radiating from her.

How do you read facial expressions of a covered face?

Many times on-line there are misunderstandings because we can not see the persons face- just read their words.
 
schaick said:
Her face is not covered as with a face veil and burka.

She can be identified.

For a person that reads lips she would be easy to understand.

We can read her facial expressions- the calm peace radiating from her.

How do you read facial expressions of a covered face?

Many times on-line there are misunderstandings because we can not see the persons face- just read their words.
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Good points, but I was sharing the picture in comparison with 1st century Palestinian women…slightly off-topic, I suppose 😉
 
Spirithound said:
http://sttheresedelisieux-wellington.myownparish.com/images/sttherese.gif
How about this nun? 🙂 I’m not properly sure whether the Carmelite habit is a derivation of 1st century Palestinian garb, but honestly, I don’t see any salient difference. Yes, certain parts of the habit have symbolic value to the order and to the individual, but I, for one, am completely ignorant of any of that. I just see a woman dressed as I assume Mary would dress.
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Well if movies such as Passion of the Christ are any indication, that’s hardly Palestinian. Furthermore, to say that it is something Mary would wear is to ignore the fact that all women back then pretty much dressed the same way.

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/files/33_clothing2.jpg
Spirithound said:
I can acknowledge that a nun’s habit functions as a sort of uniform, but doesn’t a Muslim woman’s hijab/niqab/burqa also do that? I don’t think it matters that being Muslim is not a job, or that she would be given less esteem than a nun; her clothing has the same effect.
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I’d go as far as to actually call it a cultural uniform. Regardless, it no longer has any to do with modesty and everything to do with, well, culture. With that in mind, you also should consider that cultures clash at some point. If anybody walks past me in any of these clothes, modesty would be the last thing running through my head:

Walk by me in a sari?
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Good luck getting that Bollywood song outta my head.

Walk by me in a barong tagalog?
http://www.weddingannouncer.com/pictures/47997/forgroomsmen/full-size/barong-tagalog.jpg
I might just start singing Magellan (complete with a banduria).

Walk by me in a yukata?

Congratulations, you just had me fantasizing about my own anime op. :rolleyes:
 
TEPO said:
I wonder if the lower image could be considered as modest as the top. It was Asher Levines "twisted and Fringed"cassock from 2010’s Fall Fashion Week.
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:eek:

screams

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EXPECTO PATRONUM!!!
 
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