Islamic prayer

[francisca]

My post above is an example of “bad reasoning”.

“bad reasonings” in The Quran can draw somebody to “the wrong god”.

I believe that those suicide bombers and terrorists had chosen what they chose because they were confused by bad reasonings : after too many times paraphrasing “wrong logic” that interrupted their conscience all the time, believing such sentences have a certain authority from God.

This is another example of bad reasoning :

Quran The Holy Prophet

1. [11.119] Except those on whom your Lord has mercy; and for this did He create them; and the word of your Lord is fulfilled: Certainly I will fill hell with the jinn and the men, all together.

There is no continuation between the first sentence to the next : certainly the meanings are in opposition with one another, because : “your Lord has mercy” does not match “I will fill hell with the jinn and men”. The sentence is so confusing that we can almost see that there are “two” subjects : one is “the Lord” who is mercyful and the other is “I” who wants to fill hell with men.

The above example is one of the most obvious examples of bad reasoning in the Quran. There are more bad reasonings in the Quran those more complicated, concerning the way they “interrupts” and “play games” with people’s conscience. They are harder to explain particularly because they pick some teachings from Christianity and Judaism but “partially and plus”.

For example Quran insist in the law, but which law? If Quran insist in the Torah, then Quran should encourage people to embrace Judaism. But if not, then which law?

Islamic five time a day prayer is similar to some eastern churches those prayers several times a day. Islamic chant is derived from tradition of “singing praises to God” both in Judaism and Christianity. Islam’s greeting of “Assalammualaikum” & “waalaikum salam” means “Peace be with you” & “so be with you too”. We read this greeting in our bible how Jesus and the deciples greet each other.

But somehow Islam’s prayer is not Judaism prayer, and Islam’s prayer is not Christianity’s prayer, because of “some unclear reasons in the Quran”.

 

[inJESUS]

good post Francisca…and i agree…there are many ambiguities in quran especially the crucifixion of Jesus…but all these ambiguities disappear when you realize that the heretics nazaritic doctrines on Hijaz and Mecca are all, the same, in quran…if you knew arabic, i’d have showed you from where mohammad took his doctrines including the “puzzling” crucifixion account…believe me, when i read their doctrines, i understood perfectly the quran. All the ambiguities that moslems themselves strive to understand disappear.

 

[Faith101]

Booklover:

If any translation renders the word of God not divine, it sounds like Allah blundered when he sent his “final message” that way. Even I with my limited human mentality can see ways in which Allah could have done this better!

1. Allah could have made all translations perfect, since nothing is impossible to God.
2. He could have made Arabic the only language so everyone could understand it.

or

1. The Quran was never the word of God in the first place, but simply the product of a 7th century mentality!!

How can we believe that the God who created the universe and everything in it, be so incompetent? God does not make mistakes or do anything in a hit and miss way. Think about it!

When Jesus’ apostles started evangelizing after the real Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, descended on them at Pentecost, when they spoke, their listeners heard them in their own language! Now that’s efficiency!

See the difference?

Vickie

Your argument reminds of this verse in the Quran.

And if We had sent this as a Quran in a foreign language other than arabic, they would have said: “why are not its Verses explained in detail (in our language)?What! (A Book) not in arabic and (the Messenger) an Arab?” Say: "It is for those who believe, a guide and a healing. And as for those who disbelieve, there is heaviness (deafness) in their ears, and it (the Quran) is blindness for them. They are those who are called from a place far away (so they neither listen nor understand). (41:44)

 

[cestusdei]

Jesus said “he who has ears let him hear”. I guess Muhammed had a hearing problem.

 

[inJESUS]

Faith101:

Your argument reminds of this verse in the Quran.

And if We had sent this as a Quran in a foreign language other than arabic, they would have said: “why are not its Verses explained in detail (in our language)?What! (A Book) not in arabic and (the Messenger) an Arab?” Say: "It is for those who believe, a guide and a healing. And as for those who disbelieve, there is heaviness (deafness) in their ears, and it (the Quran) is blindness for them. They are those who are called from a place far away (so they neither listen nor understand). (41:44)

fine, it’d be absurd if mohammad gave the quran in a different language since he was an arab…i don’t think this is an issue to discuss…my problem is the prayer in arabic if you are not an arab…i just can’t understand what universal message it is for all humanity from a universal God BUT in arabic.

 

[MrS]

cestusdei:

Jesus said “he who has ears let him hear”. I guess Muhammed had a hearing problem.

Muhammed would have had a “being” problem if Abraham had only slept with Sara

 

[inJESUS]

MrS:

Muhammed would have had a “being” problem if Abraham had only slept with Sara

that if you consider that “indeed” mohammad is related to Ishmael thou many refute this claim. Anyway you are correct, Abraham’s mistake/sin caused this and the covenant was with Isaac, the legal child.

 

[Booklover]

Faith101:

Your argument reminds of this verse in the Quran.

And if We had sent this as a Quran in a foreign language other than arabic, they would have said: “why are not its Verses explained in detail (in our language)?What! (A Book) not in arabic and (the Messenger) an Arab?” Say: "It is for those who believe, a guide and a healing. And as for those who disbelieve, there is heaviness (deafness) in their ears, and it (the Quran) is blindness for them. They are those who are called from a place far away (so they neither listen nor understand). (41:44)

Is that all you can say about my post? You were not impressed about what I said about the apostles I guess. Oh well!

Jesus said much the same thing you posted way before Mohammed!

Mt.13 13:17

This is why I speak to them in parables, because "they look but do not see and hear but do not listen or understand’. Isaiah’s prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says:

'You shall indeed hear but not understand, you shall indeed look but never see.

Gross is the heart of this people, they will hardly hear with their ears, they have closed their eyes, lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and be converted and I will heal them.’

But blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear. Amen, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

I’m still waiting for an explanation of these items listed in the Quran which you believe to be the literal word of God:

Quran 18:86 Till, when he (the traveler Zul-qarnain) reached the setting place of the sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring.

Quran 67:5 And we have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans.

Any comments on this?

Vickie

 

[francisca]

inJESUS:

many ambiguities in quran especially the crucifixion of Jesus…but all these ambiguities disappear when you realize that the heretics nazaritic doctrines on Hijaz and Mecca are all, the same, in quran…if you knew arabic, i’d have showed you from where mohammad took his doctrines including the “puzzling” crucifixion account…believe me, when i read their doctrines, i understood perfectly the quran. All the ambiguities that moslems themselves strive to understand disappear.

Hi inJESUS,

If you can explain these things, I’d like to know more… thanks.

God bless you.

 

[inJESUS]

francisca:

Hi inJESUS,

If you can explain these things, I’d like to know more… thanks.

God bless you.

unfortunately, it takes lots of time since i have to translate all the doctrines …if you know someone who knows arabic, i’ll make it very easy for you to understand everything.

Anyway here’s a clue : the style, the dotrines, the thories, ramadan and much more are all the same as the nazaritics…i can trace to you as well the history of nazaritics : how they started and how their doctrines changed with time due to the merge of other heretical doctrines. All these with evidences , references, letters ecc…very interesting…when i first read the quran, i found many ambiguities…when i read all this, i knew where mohammad/quran came from.
In summary, ALL the nazaritic heretical teachings whether in content, style or theories are THE SAME in quran.

 

[francisca]

inJESUS:

…if you know someone who knows arabic, i’ll make it very easy for you to understand everything.

I don’t have any friend who know Arabic right now.
Is there any website you can recommend? If not, it’s OK, I’m sure I will be able to find it myself, God willing…

In summary, ALL the nazaritic heretical teachings whether in content, style or theories are THE SAME in quran.

I see.

I know very little about Islam, other than the Quran. I understand that Islam as we know today grew in history, because I found that hadiths speak about great varian of stories. I once found some very similar to Christian Bible. But my moslem friend (I have never met him for many years now) told me that hadith is “stray”. Other hadith that I found “in opposition” to Christian & Judaism teaching was considered “accurate”. Based on my conversation with him, I then realize that Islam might not always be the way it is many years ago. In the past there were a great deal of scripts “burned”, those considered “stray”. I can imagine that the Quran today may not be exactly the same reference a few hundred years ago. Is this true?

 

[inJESUS]

I see.

I know very little about Islam, other than the Quran. I understand that Islam as we know today grew in history, because I found that hadiths speak about great varian of stories. I once found some very similar to Christian Bible. But my moslem friend (I have never met him for many years now) told me that hadith is “stray”. Other hadith that I found “in opposition” to Christian & Judaism teaching was considered “accurate”.

if you read the quran, it will give you a great historical lesson about the heresies of 7th century arabia.including Jewish/Christian legends and quotes from Talmud.

Based on my conversation with him, I then realize that Islam might not always be the way it is many years ago. In the past there were a great deal of scripts “burned”, those considered “stray”. I can imagine that the Quran today may not be exactly the same reference a few hundred years ago. Is this true?

yes .

 

[francisca]

inJESUS:

if you read the quran, it will give you a great historical lesson about the heresies of 7th century arabia.including Jewish/Christian legends and quotes from Talmud.

yes .

If I read Quran all I get is confused of what it is saying. I think linguistically Quran also different than other books, I mean there are missing subjects, predicates, objects… let alone the teaching, to understand the sentences those has some parts missing is really really difficult if not impossible.

Ok thanks anyway

 

[Emad]

cestusdei:

I notice that none of the Muslims here have touched this thread. Hmmm…

If someone like you opened it, why would we, as we see all your other threads are just bs.

 

[murtad]

inJESUS:

that if you consider that “indeed” mohammad is related to Ishmael though many refute this claim.

As Arabs were never a race but a people who worship in Arabic, nobody can be biologically an Arab. God through His apostle Paul told us that there is no difference between Jew and Greek, so we know Jews, Greeks and Arabs are ideologies or languages but definitely not races. Muhammad is definitely not related to Ishmael because Paul who lived 700 years before Muhammad said Ishmael represented Judaism.

Look at this figure:

             _____ Moab
             |

Lot -----------+
|
|_____ Ammon

               ____ Ishmael
               |
               |

Abraham — + ___ Esav
| /
|____ Isaac
___ Jacob

What do you think this means? IMO, God has two sons, physical and spiritual. Ishmael represents Judaism, while Isaac represents the Church, which has two children, one evil (called Esav) and one good (called Jacob).

I always wondered who Moab and Ammon are. Am I correct when I say that if Abraham represents the true God, then Lot represents the false God? Does Moab and Ammon have anything to do with Islam?

Judaism claims that Jacob is Judaism, Esav is Christian faith, Ishmael is Islam, and Moab is the adulterers. Yet, we Christians do not accept Judaism definition as Paul refers Judaism as Ishmael. Augustine refers the Church as Isaac and he says the Church has two sons, Esav and Jacob. I have not read Augustine entirely due to lack of time, so I hope someone here can tell me who Moab and Ammon are?

inJESUS:

Anyway you are correct, Abraham’s mistake/sin caused this and the covenant was with Isaac, the legal child.

inJESUS, can you read Latin? Have you read the writings of Bishop of Hippo, St. Augustine?

The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represents Torah [Old Testament], while the Tree of Life represents the Gospel [New Testament]. So, everything you read in the Old Testament is the word of the Father, a eternal drama of cosmic struggle between good and evil. Only the Son of God can explain the meaning of the speech of His Father.

IMO, Ishmael is Judaism. I may be wrong though but before you flame me, do tell us whether Moab or Ammon may be Islam?

 

[inJESUS]

Murtad, i really don’t need all this to prove mohammad’s plagiaris…bro, all the heretical teachings of Arabia that pre-dated him are the same in quran. Quran is nothing but a heretical mixture of judaism/Christianity with legends from both.

 

[murtad]

Emad:

If someone like you opened it, why would we, as we see all your other threads are just bs.

Personal attacks, eh? This shows you are already defeated as you are bankrupt of new ideas That is why Islam can never revive the Caliphate that colapsed in 1924. If you cannot do constructive criticism, then it shows Islam is a false religion and you should leave it.

Do you know, Emad, Quran does not use the word “Christian” but Nasrani (ie. Nazerene)?

Nazerenes were heretics condemned by the Ecumenical Council of Nicea convened by Caesar Constantine. The leader of the Nasrani was named Father Arius, he denied everything Christian. He was executed by the sword. The remaining Nasrani who did not accept the Christian Statement of Faith migrated to Saudi Arabia. Arius taught there were three gods (a Father, a Son, and a Mother Mary). Arius teachings denied the existance of the Holy Spirit and maintained both the Son and the Mother Mary were created gods, while the Father was uncreated God. This is a heresy for it is polytheism. However, Arius differed from Muslims as he believed worshipping these three gods was okay. So, Arius was hardly, Muslim nor was he Christian. We call him a Nasrani.

Today, in the Middle East there are no Nasranis at all. Copts, Syriacs, and Greeks are not Nasranis. They are Christians and call themselves such. In fact, Arabic dialects spoken by Copts, Syriacs and Greeks are influenced by Coptic language, Syriac language and Greek language.

 

[inJESUS]

Do you know, Emad, Quran does not use the word “Christian” but Nasrani (ie. Nazerene)?

Nazerenes were heretics condemned by the Ecumenical Council of Nicea convened by Caesar Constantine. The leader of the Nasrani was named Father Arius, he denied everything Christian. He was executed by the sword. The remaining Nasrani who did not accept the Christian Statement of Faith migrated to Saudi Arabia. Arius taught there were three gods (a Father, a Son, and a Mother Mary). Arius teachings denied the existance of the Holy Spirit and maintained both the Son and the Mother Mary were created gods, while the Father was uncreated God. This is a heresy for it is polytheism. However, Arius differed from Muslims as he believed worshipping these three gods was okay. So, Arius was hardly, Muslim nor was he Christian. We call him a Nasrani.

]

i agree but it was not only Arianism…i gave Emad an online arabic book that will show him where exactly the doctrines of quran came from but he is reluctant to read anything non-islamic.

 

[Emad]

murtad:

Do you know, Emad, Quran does not use the word “Christian” but Nasrani (ie. Nazerene)?

Yes I know it doesn’t use the word Christian, Christian is an english word and the Quran is in Arabic.

 

[inJESUS]

Emad:

Yes I know it doesn’t use the word Christian, Christian is an english word and the Quran is in Arabic.

no the word Christian is masihi in arabic not nasrani,.the word masihi was used since the first century…nasara started as believers but deviated later when araianism, ebionism ecc merged with their doctrines.