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Khalfan
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Send me a mail to [E-mail address deleted per forum policy - please use the link on profile the page]
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jack_hawkins
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More Muslim hogwash, this time about the moon splitting! How about the one about Mecca being the centre/axis of the world according to NASA.
You’re a scream Khalfan. Any more propaganda without a factual basis you want to post?
Do you use the three stones BTW?
Do you dip the fly back in your drink?
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Valke2
Guest
I have found one thing to be consistently true in my experience in chat rooms and this forum. I have never had a productive conversation with any mulsim who calls me “my dear.” I have no idea why this is so. But I can say with absolute certainty that every conversation with such a person always goes the exact same way.
So, nice meeting you. Good luck with the mummy proves Quran thing.
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cestusdei
Guest
What the Pope said in Regensburg about islam is proven true on this thread.
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George_Waters
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OK, let me see if I have this straight… the only way to truly believe Islamic prophesy is to be a native Arabic speaker, question nothing in the Quran and recognize that any and all contradictory evidence (especially that of a non-Muslim scholar or scientists or any web site that does not actively and readily promote Islam) is obviously part of a Jewish/Christian conspiracy to discredit Islam? (Likewise any and all media reports of crimes committed by Muslims is also part of the same conspiracy, but I digress.) If I do not meet all of the above criteria and I reject Islam it is because I do not have an open mind or a heart intent upon listening to God? Which if everything is the will of Allah, as I have been told by Muslim members of this forum, then Allah willed me to reject Islam and will punish me on judgment day do to no fault of my own (though perhaps do to the fault of poor Muslim apologist on the forum)? Have a pretty much got it?
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Angelos
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My dear friend,
When will you stop repeating those claims in order to evade the real question? What is the reason for your fear?
Let’s read the story once more:
002: 259 Or (bethink thee of) the like of him who, passing by a township which had fallen into utter ruin, exclaimed: How shall Allah give this township life after its death ? And Allah made him die a hundred years, then brought him back to life. He said: How long hast thou tarried ? (The man) said: I have tarried a day or part of a day. (He) said: Nay, but thou hast tarried for a hundred years. Just look at thy food and drink which have not rotted! Look at thine ***! And, that We may make thee a token unto mankind, look at the bones, how We adjust them and then cover them with flesh! And when (the matter) became clear unto him, he said: I know now that Allah is Able to do all things.
I do not remember that I died for a hundred years and rose again
I have never had a donkey either. So what’s the point of your comparison? The story in question does not allow such generalizations. If the story had been symbolic, the man in the verse would not have been made a token for mankind! It is clear that Allah chose and made him a SIGN for the MANKIND. So I still want to see this sign, which was determined to be evidence for the resurrection.Here is my next question to you: Does your scripture make up stories of a risen man and present it as the sign of resurrection? Your weird interpretation makes me assume that such an incident of resurrection never happened, but Allah used just a claim for a sign! Applaud Mohammed’s Allah, who tries to prove his claims through another claim
What if Pharaoh is considered by Mohammed’s scribes another sign representing the tragic end of unbelievers with no special prophecy? In accordance with your assertions, I feel free to believe that Pharaoh was a general sign for unbelievers with nothing special about his corpse or whatsoever.
Angelos N.
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Angelos
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AND…
WHY YOU INSIST THAT THE KORAN IS ALLAH’S WORD DESPITE SO MANY CONTRADICTIONS & ERRORS IN IT? WHY DO YOU ALWAYS FAIL TO ANSWER MY POSTS? WHY DO YOU CHOOSE JUMPING TO AN IRRELEVANT TOPIC WHEN YOU FALL SHORT OF DEFENDING YOUR SCRIPTURE?
If Allah made Pharaoh a specific SIGN for the mankind through his corpse - which occurs neither in the original language nor in the translations! - and let people SEE that SIGN hundreds years later through a Muslim doctor’s uncanny discoveries, it is my right to wish to see the man appointed another SPECIFIC SIGN in Mohammed’s Bible 002: 259!
How can you decide that the risen man in that verse was a GENERAL & INVISIBLE SIGN whereas Pharaoh was a SPECIFIC and VISIBLE one?
WHY DOES YOUR KORAN FAIL TO DISTINGUISH VISIBLE SIGNS FROM INBVISIBLE ONES? WHY DOES IT FORGET TO SAY THAT WHAT ALLAH ACTUALLY MADE A SIGN WAS NOT THE PHARAOH HIMSELF, BUT HIS PRESERVED BODY? …
Angelos N.
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Booklover
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Not to mention eating some black seeds and seven dates a day and then relaxing with a glass of camel’s urine! :whacky: Islamic medicine made easy!More Muslim hogwash, this time about the moon splitting! How about the one about Mecca being the centre/axis of the world according to NASA.
You’re a scream Khalfan. Any more propaganda without a factual basis you want to post?
Do you use the three stones BTW?
Do you dip the fly back in your drink?
news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=829&theme=Printer
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Booklover
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How to debate and frustrate infidels.
.5. If he brings ten different translations then say correct meanings can be understood only by reading Quran in Arabic.
news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1146
Typical Muslim tactics! What that satire says is so true!
Vickie
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Booklover
Guest
So reasoning comes from the heart!
Human physiology
According to Prophet Mohammed’s teachings, it is the heart, not the brain, which is the centre of intellectual functions like decision-making and thinking. The brain does not seem to have any function in Prophet Mohammed’s medical science. According to those who truly believed his expertise on human physiology, the brain is no more than a stuffing for the human skull. The brain is completely ignored in the Quran and ahadith, while the heart is referred to frequently as the centre of intelligence, like this verse from surat Al Hajj: *(Q.22: 46. Do they not travel through the land, so that their hearts may thus learn wisdom and their ears may thus learn to hear? Truly it is not their eyes that are blind, but their hearts, which are in their breasts) *. And this verse from surat Al A’araf *(Q22:179. …. They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle… ) *.
Remember, the above verses come from the Quran, which Muslims claim to have scientific miracles.
news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=829
Vickie
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Kadaveri
Guest
Really, this just gets more and more ridiculous.
So do you correct people who say things like “I love you with all my heart” by telling them *actually *emotions have nothing to do with the heart they come from the brain? Or would you say taking everything exactly literally like that would be being silly?
It’s called poetic expression… the Qur’an *is *poetry full of metaphors and figurative language for God’s sake…
So do you correct people who say things like “I love you with all my heart” by telling them *actually *emotions have nothing to do with the heart they come from the brain? Or would you say taking everything exactly literally like that would be being silly?
It’s called poetic expression… the Qur’an *is *poetry full of metaphors and figurative language for God’s sake…
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George_Waters
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Kadaveri,
Perhaps you can answer a question for me. If the Quran is obvious truth and simple for everyone to understand why are so many metaphors and so much figurative language used? There also seems to be a dependency on Arabic and 4th century Arabian culture, as well as knowledge of laws, rulings, opinions, sayings and commentary to gain the full understanding of the Quran.
Thanks.
Perhaps you can answer a question for me. If the Quran is obvious truth and simple for everyone to understand why are so many metaphors and so much figurative language used? There also seems to be a dependency on Arabic and 4th century Arabian culture, as well as knowledge of laws, rulings, opinions, sayings and commentary to gain the full understanding of the Quran.
Thanks.
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Kadaveri
Guest
The Bible is full of metaphors and figurative language also, to a far greater degree than the Qur’an infact, but I’ve yet to see any Christian consider that this somehow removes from it’s ‘truth’ in the same way the Qur’an is attacked. Sorry to be blunt, but arguments like what’s just been quoted are just plain stupid for all who use them and fullblown hypocrisy in the case of Christians using them (or Jews I suppose, although I’ve never witnessed any Jews use such low tactics).
I wonder if instead of “their hearts are sealed” the Qur’an said “they are hard-hearted”, the former is the literal translation of the words yet the later carries the same effective meaning only using an English idiom to express it. Would certain people still claim that this is somehow a ‘scientific error’? Well knowing their track record I guess they probably would…
I wonder if instead of “their hearts are sealed” the Qur’an said “they are hard-hearted”, the former is the literal translation of the words yet the later carries the same effective meaning only using an English idiom to express it. Would certain people still claim that this is somehow a ‘scientific error’? Well knowing their track record I guess they probably would…
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Booklover
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Oh, so now, it’s poetry and not the word of God?? So when Muhammad states that “fever is from the heat of Hell, so abate fever with water”, how do you take that? Is it literal or figurative? You’re the one that’s muddying the waters.
Here’s an example by Islamic scholar Khalid Zaheer in a debate with Ali Sina of FFI:
Likewise is the case of faith in the claim that Qur’an is the word of God. If you are willing to see it, you can get, to begin with, an initial glimpse of it. If you are committed to not seeing it, nobody can help you in getting its glimpse. Willingness to believe doesn’t demand that you be a gullible idiot. It demands that you be an honest, open-minded person, who is willing to call good as good and bad as bad.
Ali Sina:
You say the Qur’an gives clear reasons why some people were eligible to be killed. When asked to give us those reasons, all you could say was that one must have pure heart to see them. I am sorry; pure heart has nothing to do with truth. You need rational thinking to find the truth. You need pure heart for not oppressing people who are different from you, for feeling the pain of those whom you abuse because they think differently. A man who says those who do not believe in what I believe do not deserve to live in this world should not speak of pure heart. Such a person does not even know the meaning of pure heart. You think it is okay to kill those who do not see what you uncritically have accepted as truth. This is not pure heart but evil. What you say should be done to unbelievers stems from a very impure heart. You don’t have to have pure heart to see the sun and the moon in the sky. You don’t have to have pure heart to understand that it is not the earth that goes around the sun but the other way round. You don’t need pure heart to understand the concept of the Big Bang, or evolution. You don’t need pure heart to know that pi is needed to calculate the area of a circle. To understand the truth you don’t need pure heart. This is a fallacy. All you need is a brain and the ability to use it. God has endowed all of us with brain. The problem is that some people are so caught in absurd thinking that refuse to use theirs. Heart has nothing to do with truth. You need to be apathetic and cold to find the truth.
faithfreedom.org/debates/Ghamidip24.htm
Vickie
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George_Waters
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What argument have I used? I asked you a question about the Quran. Yes, the Bible is full of metaphors and figurative language, but what does that have to do with the Quran? Muslims claim the Quran is simple for everyone to understand yet a vast array of knowledge seems to be needed to understand what the Quran is really saying. I simply asked why you think that is.
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Booklover
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Yes, but the difference is that we’ve never claimed that the Bible is the LITERAL word of God!
Vickie
How to Debate and Frustrate Infidels:
- If the pest still hangs around then change the topic and find faults in other religions and their books.
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pro_universal
Guest
The core message is extremely simple:
Do what is good, do not do what is bad, and worship the one true God.
I think the problem is that you’re taking every single line devoted to that message, and trying to create complexity as to the fundamentals where there is none.
Taking scraps of a book that you have not read, and then saying “but what does this mean!?” is one way of claiming that something is confusing when in reality, it’s not all that complicated. You’re essentially asking Kadaveri to give you the whole book because you want to talk about one line, and then claiming that the whole book is unclear because you didn’t get all the meaning of that one line when it was out of context.
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pro_universal
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You know, calling people pests and posting from a hate-site is really not something I expected in my lifetime I would ever seen from someone witnessing Catholicism. But after visiting this site, I saw it so many times I really just couldn’t deny that being angry at those who disagree with Catholicism is a part of the religion.Yes, but the difference is that we’ve never claimed that the Bible is the LITERAL word of God!
Vickie
How to Debate and Frustrate Infidels:
Your post is a prime example of these tactics!!
- If the pest still hangs around then change the topic and find faults in other religions and their books.
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Kadaveri
Guest
It would be a prime example of such tactics, if I had actually pointed out any problems with other religion’s books, but unfortunately you completely misunderstood my post.
And George, that last post of mine wasn’t directed towards you personally but at the argument used by the writer of the article on the faithfreedom website. To answer your question, I’d firstly say that the original premises isn’t correct and that you don’t need a vast array of knowledge to read and understand the Qur’an. There are some minor things that would need clarifying for some verses to be understood, like 53:19-21 for example, without knowing that Lat, 'Uzza and Manat were Pagan deities of the Meccans those verses wouldn’t make much sense, but for the most part the Qur’an can be read and understood. Even someone who knews virtually nothing about religion could read the Qur’an and understand what it’s message was, i.e. There is only one God so believe in Him and worship Him only, God sends Prophets to us to guide us to the right way, all people will be judged at the end of time, Heaven and Hell are real, give prayers to God, give charity, feed the poor, embrace the good, forbid the evil. All very simple concepts that are repeated over and over again throughout the entire book.
Stuff like this ‘hearts’ nonsense only really crop up when people go deliberately looking to find anything that could be perceived as ‘wrong’ in the book instead of just trying to read and understand it. I’ve honestly never known of anyone having a problem with the Qur’an using the heart as a symbol of one’s deepest conscience; especially since the metaphor is utilised in the English language (they are hard-hearted, I love you with all my heart, accept Jesus Christ into your heart etc…) in a quite similar manner.
And George, that last post of mine wasn’t directed towards you personally but at the argument used by the writer of the article on the faithfreedom website. To answer your question, I’d firstly say that the original premises isn’t correct and that you don’t need a vast array of knowledge to read and understand the Qur’an. There are some minor things that would need clarifying for some verses to be understood, like 53:19-21 for example, without knowing that Lat, 'Uzza and Manat were Pagan deities of the Meccans those verses wouldn’t make much sense, but for the most part the Qur’an can be read and understood. Even someone who knews virtually nothing about religion could read the Qur’an and understand what it’s message was, i.e. There is only one God so believe in Him and worship Him only, God sends Prophets to us to guide us to the right way, all people will be judged at the end of time, Heaven and Hell are real, give prayers to God, give charity, feed the poor, embrace the good, forbid the evil. All very simple concepts that are repeated over and over again throughout the entire book.
Stuff like this ‘hearts’ nonsense only really crop up when people go deliberately looking to find anything that could be perceived as ‘wrong’ in the book instead of just trying to read and understand it. I’ve honestly never known of anyone having a problem with the Qur’an using the heart as a symbol of one’s deepest conscience; especially since the metaphor is utilised in the English language (they are hard-hearted, I love you with all my heart, accept Jesus Christ into your heart etc…) in a quite similar manner.
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pro_universal
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Kadaveri,
Good explanation.
I really think though that a larger part of this problem is not having read the book. Of course single lines of text aren’t easy to understand when that’s all you have out of a larger book. The fact that you need to read a book in order to make sense of the lines used in that book doesn’t mean it’s terribly complicated.
Good explanation.
I really think though that a larger part of this problem is not having read the book. Of course single lines of text aren’t easy to understand when that’s all you have out of a larger book. The fact that you need to read a book in order to make sense of the lines used in that book doesn’t mean it’s terribly complicated.
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