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Valke2
Guest
glottic spasm? Is that a JW thing?
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jack_hawkins
Guest
JW???
the larynx (specifically the vocal cords) goes into spasm so that the person asphyxiates rather than inhaling large quantities of water
the larynx (specifically the vocal cords) goes into spasm so that the person asphyxiates rather than inhaling large quantities of water
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hamba2han
Guest
We also need to remember that if not even one of all the eligible candidates shows signs on their mummified bodies of being the Pharaoh of the Exodus, then the next logical assumption is that the Exodus did not really happen at all.
Are Christians and Jews more willing to accept this possibility than to accept Merneptah as the most likely candidate to have been the Pharaoh of the Exodus based on what Dr. Maurice Bucaille has found from his scientific examination of the mummified body of Merneptah?
Are Christians and Jews more willing to accept this possibility than to accept Merneptah as the most likely candidate to have been the Pharaoh of the Exodus based on what Dr. Maurice Bucaille has found from his scientific examination of the mummified body of Merneptah?
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jack_hawkins
Guest
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Eden
Guest
If ALL of their mummified bodies have been discovered, how does that make the preservation of the one specific pharaoh Muhammed predicted would be preserved - unique? This goes back to what I said way back, that Egyptians mummified the bodies of their dead to be preserved for centuries. So, it does not take a rocket scientist or prophet to predict that an Egyptian leader will be found in mummified form some day in the future. There is no miracle of prophecy there. The fact that several preserved mummy bodies are candidates to fulfill the “prophecy” should be evidence enough that nothing miraculous or prophetic happened here.
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hamba2han
Guest
The miracle is that there was even a body to recover given the manner in which how he died.
Like I said, at the time the Qur’anic verses were revealed, no one knew or expected that the body even existed anymore let alone that it was still preserved intact even though 2000 years had passed.
Remember the tsunami of Dec. 2004?
The bodies of virtually all of those swept out to sea were never recovered.
Similarly, the expectation was that the body of the Pharaoh of the Exodus was washed away by the sea and not even the Bible mentions that it was recovered and preserved intact.
Like I said, at the time the Qur’anic verses were revealed, no one knew or expected that the body even existed anymore let alone that it was still preserved intact even though 2000 years had passed.
Remember the tsunami of Dec. 2004?
The bodies of virtually all of those swept out to sea were never recovered.
Similarly, the expectation was that the body of the Pharaoh of the Exodus was washed away by the sea and not even the Bible mentions that it was recovered and preserved intact.
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Valke2
Guest
The waters turned back and covered the chariots and the horsemen – Pharaoh’s entire amry that had followed after them – into the sea; not one of them remained.
It doesn’t actually say that Pharoah himself was cast into the sea.
The Torah is not shy about noting the death of enemy kings, so I’m not sure why it wouldn’t not it here, if Pharoah had died.
It doesn’t actually say that Pharoah himself was cast into the sea.
The Torah is not shy about noting the death of enemy kings, so I’m not sure why it wouldn’t not it here, if Pharoah had died.
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Angelos
Guest
Which Koran says that the body of the Pharaoh was preserved intact as a miraculous sign for the coming generations?
Your insistence proves that there are many authorized Koran versions surviving Uthman’s edition! No Koran version I have read even implies that it was Pharaoh’s body that was appointed a sign by Allah.
Angelos N.
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hamba2han
Guest
If the Pharaoh had survived, then that truly would have been a miracle in itself and it would surely have merited a mention in the Torah, don’t you think?
In the absence of any such mention, there really should be no doubt that the Pharaoh did not survive my friend.
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Eden
Guest
This isn’t a Catholic website that I’m quoting, but it addresses two important points:
Some feel that more proof that Amenhotep II died in the Red Sea is found in Psalm 136:15. Here, God says that He “overthrow Pharaoh and his host [army] in the Red Sea.” Some assert that the Hebrew word translated “overthrew,” na’ar, means “to drown” or “to toss or tumble as in the water.” But, as can be found in the margins of many bibles, na’ar simply means “shook off.” So the verse states that God “shook off” the Egyptians in their chase after the Israelites. It says nothing as to who drowned in the sea.
Had Amenhotep II actually died in the Red Sea, the Bible would most likely have made mention of it. There are many references to the demises of enemy kings in the Old Testament, some of whom would have been far less notable than the pharaoh of the Exodus.
Also, archeologists have proven that, after the Exodus, Amenhotep II continued to reign in Egypt for at least sixteen more years.
thercg.org/questions/p205.a.html
Some feel that more proof that Amenhotep II died in the Red Sea is found in Psalm 136:15. Here, God says that He “overthrow Pharaoh and his host [army] in the Red Sea.” Some assert that the Hebrew word translated “overthrew,” na’ar, means “to drown” or “to toss or tumble as in the water.” But, as can be found in the margins of many bibles, na’ar simply means “shook off.” So the verse states that God “shook off” the Egyptians in their chase after the Israelites. It says nothing as to who drowned in the sea.
Had Amenhotep II actually died in the Red Sea, the Bible would most likely have made mention of it. There are many references to the demises of enemy kings in the Old Testament, some of whom would have been far less notable than the pharaoh of the Exodus.
Also, archeologists have proven that, after the Exodus, Amenhotep II continued to reign in Egypt for at least sixteen more years.
thercg.org/questions/p205.a.html
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Valke2
Guest
Not if he was not with his men. There is doubt. Because scripture does not say he died with his army. Anyway, I thought the prophecy you were discussing had Pharoah repenting and being spared.
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Khalfan
Guest
Doctor Boukay declares the miracle in this case saying: “and in the age that The Holy Quran reach the humans by Mohammed prays and peace of Allah be upon him, the corpses of all the pharaohs that people doubted about them in the modern age whether correctly or wrongly that they had any relation to the departure, were buried in the tombs of the valley of the kings in Tiba on the other side of the Nile river in front of the present “Luxor” city. In the age of Mohammed prays and peace of Allah be upon him everything about that matter was unknown and these corpses did not discover except in the nineteenth century (4) so that the corpse of Moses’ pharaoh which still standing for the viewers till this day is considered a materialized evidence in a mummified body of a person that knew Moses peace be upon him, and opposed his demands, and chased him while he was escaping and died during that chase, and God saved his corpse from complete damage so he would become a sign for humans as mentioned in the Holy Quran”Dear Khalfan,
WAKE UP to see that this is a different thread from the one discussing the numerical discrepancies in your scripture
Why don’t you present your precious comments on the supposed Islamic prophecy concerning Pharaoh’s body?
God bless,
ANgelos N.
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Khalfan
Guest
It is you my dear. Your birth itself is a sign for you.You know well that the verse your beloved scientists - who somehow delight in distorting the Koran - quote contains no prophecy or miracle. You will have to read my previous post to be convinced
BTW: Please consider me a novice scientist that has decided to leave Islam only because I know another prophecy in your scripture - similar to yours but clearer than that - that has not found fulfillment yet! Ask Mr. Bucaille to do me a favour and find the man in the following prophecy:
002: 259 Or (take) the similitude of one who passed by a hamlet, all in ruins to its roofs. He said: “Oh! how shall Allah bring it (ever) to life, after (this) its death?” But Allah caused him to die for a hundred years, then raised him up (again). He said: “How long didst thou tarry (thus)?” He said: “(Perhaps) a day or part of a day.” He said: “Nay, thou hast tarried thus a hundred years; but look at thy food and thy drink; they show no signs of age: and look at thy donkey; and that We may make of thee a Sign unto the people, look further at the bones, how We bring them together and clothe them with flesh!” When this was shown clearly to him, he said: “I know that Allah hath power over all things.”
Where is that man appointed a Sign by Allah for mankind
Peace,
Angelos N.
The Qur’an frequently points to the ever-recurring miracle of birth, preceded by the gradual evolution of the embryo in its mother’s womb, as a visible sign of God’s power to create-and therefore also to re-create- life.
I have given you two options to know the truth behind all your discrepencies.
- If knowing the reason is your interest, contact www.understandislam.com, www.islamworld.com, www.islamonline.com or www.islaminfo.com.
- If you are so confident of those discrepencies, prove it on a public debate with any Muslim scholar. At least, you can help some muslims to understand Quran and to convert to Christianity.
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Khalfan
Guest
A prophecy is given in Chapter 41 about God’s promise to show the unbelievers that The Quran is the word of God –
“We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and within themselves, until they realise that this is the truth. Is your Lord not sufficient as a witness of all things?” (The Quran, 41:53)
Check the link jalyat.net/miracles.html
Today, scientific discoveries in every field are giving more and more evidence to the truth of this statement. See islamawareness.net/Science/ for details.
islamawareness.net/Miq/
“We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and within themselves, until they realise that this is the truth. Is your Lord not sufficient as a witness of all things?” (The Quran, 41:53)
Check the link jalyat.net/miracles.html
Today, scientific discoveries in every field are giving more and more evidence to the truth of this statement. See islamawareness.net/Science/ for details.
islamawareness.net/Miq/
K
Khalfan
Guest
A very interesting prophecy relates to the moon landing (which occurred in 1969), is it possible The Quran predicted this? Well, judge for yourself by considering the following information – Chapter 54 of The Quran is entitled “The Moon” and starts right away by giving us news about the splitting of the moon as a sign that the end of the world is drawing close.
**“The moon has split and the hour has drawn closer” **(The Quran, 54:1)
When did the prophecy come to pass?
To answer that, one must keep the prophecy in mind: “The moon has split.” This is a metaphor. Parts of the moon have left its surface. They no longer are part of the moon. So, the prophecy does not refer to the landing on the moon or to the first step made by Neil Armstrong but to the fact that Armstrong and Aldrin collected 21 kilograms of lunar rocks to bring back to earth. The prophecy was fulfilled at the very moment the astronauts left the moon in the lunar module containing 21 kilograms of rocks that had belonged to the moon. This can be confirmed by checking the definition of “split” in any dictionary, among the definitions given by Dictionary.com are – “to divide, disunite, separate”
The date this prophecy came to pass was on July 21 1969. The moment the prophecy was fulfilled is confirmed by the hour of departure of the lunar module, which left the lunar surface at 17:54:1 (Universal Time) or 1:54:1 (EDT) and as you have seen above, verse [54:1] is the verse that deals with the prophecy.
Lets read the following verses after (54:1) –
**“The moon has split and the hour has drawn closer. Then they saw a great miracle; but they turned away and said, “Old magic.” They disbelieved, followed their opinions, and adhered to their old traditions.” **(The Quran, from 54:1 to 54:3)
Here, the author of The Quran specifically states – “the moon has split”, then people will see “a great miracle”, yet they still “disbelieved”. Could the “great miracle” be the fulfilment of prophecy?
If you want to check the time of departure yourself, see
nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/database/MasterCatalog?sc=1969-059C
israelpr.com/discoverer.html
sierratel.com/patplc/Apollo11.htm
**“The moon has split and the hour has drawn closer” **(The Quran, 54:1)
When did the prophecy come to pass?
To answer that, one must keep the prophecy in mind: “The moon has split.” This is a metaphor. Parts of the moon have left its surface. They no longer are part of the moon. So, the prophecy does not refer to the landing on the moon or to the first step made by Neil Armstrong but to the fact that Armstrong and Aldrin collected 21 kilograms of lunar rocks to bring back to earth. The prophecy was fulfilled at the very moment the astronauts left the moon in the lunar module containing 21 kilograms of rocks that had belonged to the moon. This can be confirmed by checking the definition of “split” in any dictionary, among the definitions given by Dictionary.com are – “to divide, disunite, separate”
The date this prophecy came to pass was on July 21 1969. The moment the prophecy was fulfilled is confirmed by the hour of departure of the lunar module, which left the lunar surface at 17:54:1 (Universal Time) or 1:54:1 (EDT) and as you have seen above, verse [54:1] is the verse that deals with the prophecy.
Lets read the following verses after (54:1) –
**“The moon has split and the hour has drawn closer. Then they saw a great miracle; but they turned away and said, “Old magic.” They disbelieved, followed their opinions, and adhered to their old traditions.” **(The Quran, from 54:1 to 54:3)
Here, the author of The Quran specifically states – “the moon has split”, then people will see “a great miracle”, yet they still “disbelieved”. Could the “great miracle” be the fulfilment of prophecy?
If you want to check the time of departure yourself, see
nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/database/MasterCatalog?sc=1969-059C
israelpr.com/discoverer.html
sierratel.com/patplc/Apollo11.htm
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Montalban
Guest
The miracle is your still dealing with this guy as if it’s a known fact he’s the king from the story.
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Valke2
Guest
This makes no sense to me for two very important reason. God saw fit to make sure that we never knew the location of where Moses was buried. We believe this is so that we wouldn’t be tempted to worship him. And yet I am to believe that God preserved Pharoh so that we could see the body of someone who spoke to Moses? Why?
Why would God, who’s overall plan was to make sure the Jews rejected everything about Egypt when it came to religious matters, get involved in the mummification of an Egyptian Ruler? To do so would be contrary to everything we know about Exodus.
It makes absolutely no sense when seen in light of the story of Israel being delivered from Egypt.
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hamba2han
Guest
The body of the Pharaoh was not saved and preserved just for the Jews alone but as a reminder for all of humanity who believe in the supremeness of their Creator.
Considering the astounding manner in which it was accomplished by way of a prophecy in the Qur’an, this makes a whole lot of sense to me.
Considering the astounding manner in which it was accomplished by way of a prophecy in the Qur’an, this makes a whole lot of sense to me.
K
Khalfan
Guest
None of the signs or Quran itself, doesn’t demand your/or anyone’s sense my dear. It giving you/us a chance to sense the sign. It is your choice to believe or not.
The Body of Pharoah does the same. It is a sign for those, men of understanding.
Does your questiona make any sense? NO. For one basic reason. if all these signs are here to prove his existence and work, why don’t he do it visible? Why is he invisible from us? There are many whys which only GOD can answer. For example, WHY GOD HAVE CREATED YOU AS MAN (I guess you are a man)? WHY NOT AS A WOMEN? WHY NOT AS AN ANGEL? WHY YOU DIDN’T BORN IN INDIA OR SOMALIA? WHY AM I KHALFAN? WHY I CAN’T CHOOSE MY COLOUR? WHY I CAN’T CHOSE MY PARENTS?
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Khalfan
Guest
That a lie.
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