Islamic version of the Last supper?

[inJESUS]

In case you don’t know gnostics were an early group of people who mixed Christianity with ancient pagan beliefs. They were dualists in that they held a radical separation between body and soul, and regarded all matter (including the human body) to be evil. Thus, they believed Jesus did not have a human body, and so when He was crucified, it only appeared to be a crucifixion.

bingo that’s why Muslims do not understand what “appeared” means so they thought it was someone else

This is nothing new to us Amy, as both Jews and Christians believe their religious sources to be divinely protected.

Muslims cannot be Muslims if they don’t believe that God became serious about Himself and His people only after Muhammad…

Nice thread by the way.

 

[inJESUS]

angelos, please stay ! Planten or others serve to prove how much illusions is man willing to create just to refuse the truth and what Islam tries to present and which is refuted by every other source.

 

[NeedsFaith]

Muhammaden, as in Muhammadi, someone who observes the teachings of Muhammad.

So who is someone who observes the teachings of Jesus?

Jesusets, Jesustins, Jesus fanatics, or paulisus ?

 

[NeedsFaith]

I have read many threads here and I can see the **slander **has gone bothways.

I know that Muslims are free to deny the Crucifixion and believe whatever they want about Jesus. No problem with that! However, Planten, who is a heretical Muslim, has long been abusing Jesus and distorting certain accounts in the New Testament to prove his innovated theories. I have challenged him to quote the Gospel verses that say “God the Father did not want Jesus to die on the cross and sent an angel to save Him from death” so many times now. He cannot do that since there is no such verses in the New Testament. He overtly tells lies and reads into my scripture what is NOT even implied there!

We, as honest Christians, quote the Koran verses whenever we criticise certain Islamic tenets and make a comparison between Islam and Christianity. Planten has never followed this true path in his debates. He has the right to believe that way, but does not have the right to do so by perverting the Gospels and slandering my Lord.

I hope the moderators will warn him. If they do not take action, I shall have to leave since I cannot stay in a place where slandering Christianity is tolerated.

 

[inJESUS]

So who is someone who observes the teachings of Jesus?

Jesusets, Jesustins, Jesus fanatics, or paulisus ?

since Jesus is the Christ, we are CHRISTians…but Jesuits is also fine

 

[planten]

I know that Muslims are free to deny the Crucifixion and believe whatever they want about Jesus. No problem with that! However, Planten, who is a heretical Muslim, has long been abusing Jesus and distorting certain accounts in the New Testament to prove his innovated theories. I have challenged him to quote the Gospel verses that say “God the Father did not want Jesus to die on the cross and sent an angel to save Him from death” so many times now. He cannot do that since there is no such verses in the New Testament. He overtly tells lies and reads into my scripture what is NOT even implied there!

**You are now upto your neck. You had spread many false theories. I said you were a raw Muslims and you are still a raw christian. You have no real knowledge of any religion. That is proved from your posts. Now you are asking me where did god say to Jesus he will not die on the cross.

First you should show from your bible that God told Jesus that he will die on the cross. There is no such thing.
Next: You know that Jesus was praying in the garden before his arrest.
Next: You know that he wanted to avoid the cup. That is clearly the death on the cross.
Next: He told his disciples to pray too.
Next: It is written in the bible that an angel was strenghtening him. That means angel came to his help, not to oppose him.

The rest is in the Quran that Allah told Jesus (through the angel) that he will die a normal death and not be killed in any way.

i am afraid if I write all the things then you will be thrown off your feet all the more and may start crying. I do not want you to do that. So i will not discuss anything with you. I know you have thrown in the towel after consultation with your friends because you had no real reply to many of the things that I had asked.

So there is no harm. You can say that you have no reply…**

We, as honest Christians, quote the Koran verses whenever we criticise certain Islamic tenets and make a comparison between Islam and Christianity. Planten has never followed this true path in his debates. He has the right to believe that way, but does not have the right to do so by perverting the Gospels and slandering my Lord

 

[planten]

Peace Planten,

There are numerous problems with this. The first problem is that the Qur’an says Jesus was not crucified, period. You seem to be saying He was crucified but survived, this doesn’t square with the aya nor does it coincide with the traditional belief of a substitution (i.e. Judas getting crucified).

You speak of Jesus being unable to die so soon, I think you have to realize that He was on the cross for several hours and this was after being severely scourged and carrying the cross. Ultimately Christ’s own life was in His hands and He gave it up willingly.

If Jesus had fainted, one wonders how no one realized. No one realized when He was taken down from the cross, Joseph of Arrymathea didn’t realize when he laid Christ in the tomb, nor did Jesus realize when He came walking out of the tomb three days later! This makes the idea of fainting difficult to accept.

How do we know Jesus was dead? We know because Jesus’ disciples saw Him take His last breath. Likewise, when the guards were ordered to break the legs of the Crucified to speed up their death, they found Jesus dead already. To insure He really was dead, the centurion pierced Jesus’ side.

So with all this we are certain Jesus was dead.

Where does it say God told Him He wont die on the cross? Your source is certainly not biblical. Jesus was well aware that He was going to be delivered ni front of the sanhedrin and ultimately crucified. He told this prophecy to His apostles three times, and when St Peter wished that nothing happen to Jesus, Jesus scolded him by saying he thinks in the ways of man and not in the ways of God, an strange response for Person who’s destiny you say was not to be crucified. It’s apparent throughout the gospel that Jesus was aware of what was going to happen to Him and that He willingly accepted it.
**
This is what Jesus said in the garden at His capture:**

“Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?”
Matthew 26:53-54

You have to remember that Jesus was both man and God. His humanity and Divinity were united, and so He really did have a human nature and a human will which was naturally averted to suffering. Christ was aware of not only the terrible suffering He would go through, but also all the souls that would trample on this act of Love which is our redemption. For sure, he not only foresaw our sins that put Him on the Cross, our negligence to His sacrifice, but also people who claim that He did not even suffer on the cross!

Prayer is simply communication. If you understand that we believe that God is Three Persons, then you can understand how one Person can communicate with Another.

As for the crucified being a cursed person, this is not because crucifixion itself is a curse but because those crucified were blasphemers, i.e. considered the worst criminals. The Jews charged Jesus with SHIRK, and so they sought His crucifixion. But only those who are actually guilty can be truly called cursed, and since Jesus proved that He really is God through His Resurrection, we know He is innocent of the crime levied on Him by the Jews and therefore not cursed.

Hope this helps,

God bless,
Tomasz

Thanks for your trial i.e. explanation. I will consider that and that is the right way to reply..

 

[Angelos]

**You are now upto your neck. You had spread many false theories. I said you were a raw Muslims and you are still a raw christian. You have no real knowledge of any religion. That is proved from your posts. Now you are asking me where did god say to Jesus he will not die on the cross.

First you should show from your bible that God told Jesus that he will die on the cross. There is no such thing.
Next: You know that Jesus was praying in the garden before his arrest.
Next: You know that he wanted to avoid the cup. That is clearly the death on the cross.
Next: He told his disciples to pray too.
Next: It is written in the bible that an angel was strenghtening him. That means angel came to his help, not to oppose him.

The rest is in the Quran that Allah told Jesus (through the angel) that he will die a normal death and not be killed in any way.

i am afraid if I write all the things then you will be thrown off your feet all the more and may start crying. I do not want you to do that. So i will not discuss anything with you. I know you have thrown in the towel after consultation with your friends because you had no real reply to many of the things that I had asked.

So there is no harm. You can say that you have no reply…

. You aare not an honest christian. I have all the problems with you. But I do not have any problem with your Lord.

Have it your way. But remember that you have disgraced true christianity and Catholic faith by your defeat. You could leave things alone and let some one else more capable member to handle the things.**

Planten, this is most probably my last response to you.

I cannot leave this forum without giving my special thanks to you.

Thanks because you helped me and many other Christians here see that Muslims generally chase a fake victory in a religious debate at the expense of righteousness and honesty.

Thanks because you helped me and many other Christians here see that Muslims do not actually revere Jesus, but hate Him and His Gospel.

Thanks because you helped me and many other Christians here see that Muslims cannot defend their religion without resorting to lies and slander.

Thanks because you helped me and many other Christians here see that Muslims have no knowledge of genuine Christian tenets or of the Bible.

Thanks because you perfectly represented the true character of your prophet by doing all the things above.

Good luck in your future life and relations with Christians.

 

[Saintlucy]

---

Please don’t leave, Angelos. We need you.!

 

[cathopologist]

Taught by whom? LOL Who teaches Muhammad was a Sabaean? And what is a Sabaean anyway?

Sorry, its a typo. I meant thought, not taught. Well, the ancient Arabian lands was once full of gnostics, Mandaeans, Sabaeans and other groups that were considered heretical by orthodox Christians.

This is a Sabaean:

Verily, whether it be of those who believe, or those who are Jews or Christians or Sabaeans, whosoever believe in God and the last day and act aright, they have their reward at their Lord’s hand, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. - Qur’an 2:62

Too hard for you to just believe the truth. Wrestle with it, and ask for guidance.

I ask Allah for guidance daily. I just don’t ask it with the help of Mohammad. I do not believe in the Shahada.

 

[cathopologist]

Then why don’t the Jews worship him?

Because the Jews refuse to accept Jesus as their Messiah. Nonetheless, they already have a covenant with God, an AUTHENTIC covenant, unlike Islam and its adherents. We don’t hold it against the Jews for not accepting Christ as their Saviour. Jesus was a Jew anyway. Was Mohammad a Jew?

 

[cathopologist]

Planten, this is most probably my last response to you.

I cannot leave this forum without giving my special thanks to you.

Thanks because you helped me and many other Christians here see that Muslims generally chase a fake victory in a religious debate at the expense of righteousness and honesty.

Thanks because you helped me and many other Christians here see that Muslims do not actually revere Jesus, but hate Him and His Gospel.

Thanks because you helped me and many other Christians here see that Muslims cannot defend their religion without resorting to lies and slander.

Thanks because you helped me and many other Christians here see that Muslims have no knowledge of genuine Christian tenets or of the Bible.

Thanks because you perfectly represented the true character of your prophet by doing all the things above.

Good luck in your future life and relations with Christians.

Dear brother, is it worth leaving the forum because of some uneducated responses from a heretic? We need you here. We also need planten here, because he gives us entertainment. Besides, look at it another way; planten is a testimony for us, Christians. He is the reason why we need Christ. He is also the reason why Catholics and Orthodox have to come together to defend ourselves against the common enemy - IGNORANCE.

Stay bro.

 

[Saintlucy]

Please stay, our brother in Christ.

 

[planten]

Dear brother, is it worth leaving the forum because of some uneducated responses from a heretic? We need you here. We also need planten here, because he gives us entertainment. Besides, look at it another way; planten is a testimony for us, Christians. He is the reason why we need Christ. He is also the reason why Catholics and Orthodox have to come together to defend ourselves against the common enemy - IGNORANCE.

Stay bro.

**cathopologist, Islam is not enemy of any one. You think islam is enemy. That is your mistake. It means you do not know your enemies. Perhaps you are enemy of yourself. Could be like that?

Am I here to entertain you fellows? You enjoy my music? You admit that Catholics are non Orthodox christians?
**

 

[dolphinlove]

I cannot leave this forum without giving my special thanks to you.

Um, do you mean your leaving and not coming back or just ‘leaving’ for logging off for the day?
Please dont go for good. :nope: :crying::sad_bye::bighanky: :frighten:

 

[Psalter]

So who is someone who observes the teachings of Jesus?

Jesusets, Jesustins, Jesus fanatics, or paulisus ?

Christian means “follower of Christ”–duh!

 

[Sam_777]

Planten, this is most probably my last response to you.

I cannot leave this forum without giving my special thanks to you.

:bighanky:No please Angelos remember what devil did to St. Paul in “Acts 16:16-23”, he is trying to do the same thing for you, he will try to keep you away from this forum BECAUSE you are exposing him :yup:.
:console: Please don’t leave you are an excellent source of information considering that you are a former Muslim.

(Acts 16:16-23):
“Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.
When the owners of the slave girl realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities. They brought them before the magistrates and said, “These men are Jews, and are throwing our city into an uproar by advocating customs unlawful for us Romans to accept or practice.”
The crowd joined in the attack against Paul and Silas, and the magistrates ordered them to be stripped and beaten. After they had been severely flogged, they were thrown into prison, and the jailer was commanded to guard them carefully.”

 

[cathopologist]

**cathopologist, Islam is not enemy of any one. You think islam is enemy. That is your mistake. It means you do not know your enemies. Perhaps you are enemy of yourself. Could be like that?

Am I here to entertain you fellows? You enjoy my music? You admit that Catholics are non Orthodox christians?
**

planten, do you take English language classes? Are you that guy “Ali” from ‘Mind Your Language’? Perhaps you need glasses. IGNORANCE is the common enemy of Christianity. Show me where i mentioned Islam in my reply to Angelos.

 

[rad]

Dragi Brate… Angelos stoji ovde ,…im learning alot about islam …it’s not a pretty picture…violence,child marrage…and many marrages…robbery, intimidation…and a lot of other things…stay…

 

[planten]

Dragi Brate… Angelos stoji ovde ,…im learning alot about islam …it’s not a pretty picture…violence,child marrage…and many marrages…robbery, intimidation…and a lot of other things…stay…

**rad, There is no violence in Islam. No child marriage, robbery, intimidation… These bad things are being taught to you by the Catholics. Islam is your mother. When you are in trouble, please always come to the mother, diresctly, not through some mis-chief makers. They will put you way off the track.

If you want tolearn about christianity, please go to the church.

If you want to learn about Islam, please come tot he Muslims, or get hold of a Quran in your own language nd study it.

Quran is available in all languages of the world free of cost. Also available on the net**