Islam's claim about Mohammad

[Booklover]

RyanL:

Actually, tens of thousands of people saw it. Testamonies were recorded by many non-Catholics (including athiests). It was even reported in the New York Times.

Thanks Ryan, for your addition to my post! Here’s an excerpt from the anti-clerical Lisbon newspaper, “O Seculo”:

“From beside the parked carriages where many thousands stood, afraid to descend into the muddy soil of the Cova da Iria, we saw the immense crowd turn toward the sun at its highest, free of all clouds. The sun seemed to us like a plate of dull silver. It could be seen without the least effort. It did not blind or burn. It seemed as though an eclipse were taking place. All of a sudden, a tremendous shout burst forth, “Miracle, miracle!” Before the astonished eyes of the people, whose attitude carries us back to biblical times, and who, white with terror, heads uncovered, gazed at the sun that trembled and made brusque and unheard of movements beyond all cosmic laws, the sun seemed literally to dance in the sky.” This miracle occurred on October 13, 1917.

Vickie

 

[Catholicious]

-- No one answered my earlier questions, here they are, for the third time now.

What does Islam believe about the accuracy of the Bible? I may be wrong but it is my understanding that Islam believes that the Bible has been corrupted over the last 2000 years as the scriptures have been rewritten and translated into different languages. Is that correct?

If that is correct, what does Islam feel about the Dead Sea Scrolls found at Qumran? These are the oldest existing copies of scripture found about 50 years ago, much older than what remained before. It is reasonable to assert that if indeed the Bible of today is corrupted as a result of 2000 years of translations, that the content of the books in today’s Bible would not match that of those same books found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. But in reality, it is astonishing how little if anything has changed in the scriptures since the Dead Sea Scrolls of 2000 years ago. The Church with God’s protection has preserved them from corruption.

Christians, especially Catholic Christians, believe that Sacred Scripture [contained in the Bible] has been guarded throughout the ages by the Church that Jesus Christ established, and protected from error and corruption with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It has been over 2000 years since the since the Old Testament was completed and a little less since the New Testament. This is plenty of time for the Bible to be corrupted, but when you compare those books [they were then scrolls] in the Dea Sea Scrolls found at Qumran with those same books found in a current day Bible, you will see that they have been perfectly preserved, certainly not corrupted. How do you explain that? The Catholic Church is the longest standing institution in the world, 2000 years. This could not be possible if it were merely a man-made institution, but very possible since it was established by God, and it is this Church that has preserved Sacred Scripture [the Bible] from error and corruption.

I would really like someone to address this issue, I appreciate it. Peace be with you!

Booklover:

Muslims are always saying that our scriptures are corrupted …
Vickie

Faith101,

Please answer my questions about the Bible and how its been corrupted. Booklover stated the same thing, that Muslims believe our Bible has been corrupted. I have heard this … I would like to know if this is indeed true and how you came to that conclusion, especially in light of the 2000 year old Dead Sea Scrolls found at Qumran about 50 years ago. These scrolls confirm that the scriptures we have today have not changed over the last 2000 years, so then how can they be corrupted? Am I to assume that they were corrupted from the very beginning, not over time? Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, peace to you!

Catholicious

 

[Mrabody]

Faith101:

Peace chb03c

Assuming that God came to earth in flesh and was tortured for all of mankinds sin…Do you feel that everyone now is SURE of who God is? Is the bible clear in this respect? Can I know for a FACT from the bible that Jesus is God?

We also believe that God has given us a message directly from Him. That message is still with us, in its intact, uncorrupted form. This is what the Holy Quran is to a Muslim, God’s direct message to all of mankind till the end of times.

Perserved. So perserved, in fact, that if you took all the Qurans in the entire world and rested them in the ocean…it will take a very short time for the Muslims to produce a copy EXACTLY like
it. 10 million muslims have the ENTIRE Quran memorized (in its original Arabic, the language in which it was revealed).

I agree with your observation that our belief in the divinity of Jesus is based in the end on faith just as your belief that the Qu’ran is the uncorrupted word of God. However I believe that the proofs that Christians rely upon to back up our faith in Christ’s divinity are much stronger than the proofs that Muslims rely upon to show that the Qu’ran is the true word of God.

First of all there is the question of who spoke to Muhammed. Muslims believe it was the Angel Gabriel. However, there is the problem of the Satanic Verses. The three verses given to Muhammed which were later expunged from his teachings because he came to recognize them as untrue, words that Satan had whispered in his ear. After all, if Muhammed was tricked once, could he not have been tricked on other occasions.

Another problem with the Qu’ran I think that calls into question its status as the word of God is the doctrine of abrogation. Where various verses in the Qu’ran contradict one another, it is said that the later verses overrule the earlier ones. Now, if the Qu’ran is truly the word of God, why would God send contradictory messages. Is God indecisive? Does God change his mind?

Thirdly there are those aspects of Muhammed’s life which are troubling in relation to what the Qu’ran teaches. Namely there is the fact that he had many more wives than what is permitted in the Qu’ran. I have read that it is claimed that God spoke to Muhammed and gave him special dispensation to allow him to do this. Unfortunately, if this is true, then it just comes across as rather conveniant and even self serving.

Lastly, the Qu’ran was not written down directly from Muhammed’s mouth. According to contemporary accounts, it was written down some years after his death by one of his close followers. This apostle of Muhammed’s went around and gathered as many Qu’ranic sayings as he could. How do we know if he missed any? How do we know if they are in the proper chronological order (very important given the doctrine of abrogation)? Then about thirty years afterwards, the Caliph at the time became concerned that different versions of the Qu’ran were circulating and order an authoritative version to be written up and all the other versions in circulation to be destroyed.

I hope you can address these concerns I have about the validity of the Qu’ran. I would of course be happy to answer any questions you have about the Bible.

Drew

 

[Mrabody]

Faith101:

chb03c:

Dear brother/sister in humanity…it is extremly difficult for a muslim to believe that God, my Creator and yours, would come down on this earth and actually have someone hurt him, when He can forgive our sins without all of this.

He is Just and Merciful…I feel as if sometimes it is a guilt-trip for Christians “Jesus died for YOU, he suffered for YOU, you owe him somthing” it just doesnt seem right.

One God, one message, worship him. If you mess up, ask for forgiveness, He’ll forgive you. Mess up again, ask for forgiveness again, He’ll forgive you…until you’re last breath. Now, THAT is love.

How can God be perfectly Just and perfectly Merciful in Islamic theology? After, if God was perfectly just he could not be merciful because Mercy negates justice. If a murderer is to be hanged as punishment for his crime, then to show him mercy would allow him to escape justice. Likewise, if the punishment is carried out then justice is done but not mercy.

By sacrificing himself for us, God, atoned for our sins. Thus the sacrifice ensured that justice was done. However, because the requirements for justice have been satisfied, God can show us mercy. Likewise, it was through his mercy that God chose to sacrifice himself in our place and thus allowed the requirements of justice to be fulfilled.

Under your belief system if God shows you mercy he is unjust. Likewise, if he is just, then he cannot show you mercy.

Can you please explain how God can be perfectly Just and Merciful in Islamic theology.

Drew

 

[Mrabody]

Faith101:

That is a misunderstanding of the role of the messengers from an Islamic viewpoint.

The messengers before Mohamed (pbuh) were sent to specific people. Their message was ONLY intended for the people of their time…for Jesus it was the Children of Israel, and you will see evidence of that in the Bible. Jesus (pbuh) focused on the children of Israel adn would hesitate to make miracles for those outside of those people. SO, God did NOT intend to preserve the literal message of Jesus CHrist (pbuh)…although his basic message is the same basic message of Islam.

Mohamed (pbuh) was sent to all of mankind,and so his message was preserved…so it can serve to be as the QUran states “guidance to those who are God-concious”

Hope that helped

You are completely wrong about Jesus’ mission being only to the Children of Israel. You forget the gospel passages about the foreign woman who likened herself to the dog that eats scraps from his master’s table, or the Roman Centurian who asked Jesus for his help.

 

[Mrabody]

Faith101:

Peace

Yes, because of our free will, human beings have the capacity to be better than angels or worse than devils.

The difference is that we dont believe that God would be God if someone hit him and he said “ouch.” He would not be worthy of worship…if anything, he would be worthy of our compassion.

I was of the understanding that Muslims don’t believe in free will, but rely on God’s will.

And if God chose to come to earth and be hit, or as in Christs case, flogged and crucified, he would be worthy of our worship, our love, our respect, and yes our compassion. After all, he didn’t have to do this, or go through this ordeal. It was a deed of great mercy and bravery and love.

Drew

 

[Mrabody]

Faith101:

I dont understand how you understand the statement of Jesus praying “let this cup pass if that is your will” to indicate that they have the SAME will. It seems that Jesus is depending on the will of God and not his own. I believe there are other parts of the bible that Jesus confirms the fact that he does not his own will but the will of the one who sent him. How do you understand these statements?

Jesus exercised his own will in obeying the Lord’s will. He didn’t have to, but he chose to.Basically, in the quote above he is saying I choose to do this if it is your will, but if you wish otherwise it would be easier for me.

Drew

 

[Mrabody]

Booklover:

I was simply replying to your message about Mohammed delivering the message correctly. There was no message because no one appeared to Mohammed with any such message! Mohammed was one of the false prophets that Jesus warned us about.

No we don’t know that noone appeared to Muhammed. However, Muhammed may have misinterpreted who appeared as being the angel Gabriel. Muhammed admitted that some revelations he received, “the Satanic Verses” were not from god but from Satan and he excised these from his teachings. However it is entirely possible that he was misled in all the other revelations he received.

Drew