Islam's Plagiarized Christian Origins

[Jay53]

nope especially since your prophet said they were all the word of god and hence burning any of them is sacrilege especially since Mohammad said THEY ALL ARE THE WORD OF GOD, which if it’s the case why did Allah allow his word to be burnt after having revealed it in 7 modes he decided to reverses his previous initiative and allow them to be burnt?

Why not? Allah seems to have changed his mind about divorce and adultery as well. (Although he changed it back again with regard to adultery - seems he couldn’t make up his mind.)

 

[DeusVult09]

Why not? Allah seems to have changed his mind about divorce and adultery as well. (Although he changed it back again with regard to adultery - seems he couldn’t make up his mind.)

Hahah yeah that’s because im under the sneaking suspicion that Mohammad was really Allah, Mohammad put anything he wanted into the mouth of Allah and changed Allah’s commands when it suited him. Like everyone was only allowed 4 wives but Allah ordained that Mohammad could have 9 (well some say he had 12, others 20) surprise surprise.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Hahah yeah that’s because im under the sneaking suspicion that Mohammad was really Allah, Mohammad put anything he wanted into the mouth of Allah and changed Allah’s commands when it suited him. Like everyone was only allowed 4 wives but Allah ordained that Mohammad could have 9 (well some say he had 12, others 20) surprise surprise.

There’s a funny line stated by Aisha regarding that.

Narrated Aisha:
I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah’s Apostle and I used to say, “Can a lady give herself (to a man)?” But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).’ (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), “I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires.” [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 311; emphasis mine]

What I wonder is was that youthful innocence, or hidden sarcasm?

 

[DeusVult09]

There’s a funny line stated by Aisha regarding that.

Narrated Aisha:
I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah’s Apostle and I used to say, “Can a lady give herself (to a man)?” But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).’ (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), “I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires.” [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 311; emphasis mine]

What I wonder is was that youthful innocence, or hidden sarcasm?

Hahah that’s nothing in one hadith, aisha talks about Mohammad’s cum stains and how he’d put water on them before he prayed. Its so crack up. I mean why would you record that for posterity?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it (water spots were still visible).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 231:
Narrated Sulaiman bin Yasar:
I asked 'Aisha about the clothes soiled with semen. She replied, "I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah’s Apostle and he would go for the prayer while water spots were still visible. "

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I remember one hadith, not about Mohammad but someone else, who was at the mosque and he touched himself. Someone asked if he did, and when he gave the affirmative, he was asked to perform wudu again.

I mean sure, it’s good that you’re trained to have cleanliness…but c’mon. T.M.I. :hypno:

 

[sedonaman]

… if all these variants were the word of allah (as pronounced by Mohammad) why Allah allowed them to be burnt?

Or eaten up by a goat.

 

[planten]

Burning variants of the Koran and just having 1 unified form of it in the qurashi dialect, directly goes against what Mohammad said , he is recorded numerous times in the sunnah as saying that the koran was revealed in 7 dialects and that they were all the word of god, yet uthman says it was only revealed in the qurashi dialect and burns the variants. This begs the question why did Allah allow the desecration of his word by caliph uthman?, because that’s what it is if Mohammad was right and they all were the same word of god. Why did Allah need 7 version of the Koran in the 1st place, Mohammad said it was to make it easier for the Muslims to understand but it caused numerous problems and infighting over which version was correct.

**Deus, the Quran was being compiled. The Caliph had the responsibility that the job should be done well. He made sure that a correct copy of Quran was prepared and supplied to all concerned. There was no need for keeping any half correct copies.

May I remind you that the council Nicene (Year 325 A.D.) only four gospels were chosena nd the rest were considered un-holy. What was done to those un-holy bibles? Can you tell me? There is a word Apocryphal (?) for them if I am right.

You dig out news about Quran, we will dig out bad news about your bible.

The above is written for the information of Zaki and other Muslims friends here that about 100 different gospels were burnt at the council in 325 A.D. Some of thosewere informing about the Comforter and some were preaching pure Unitarian faith. Such gospels were destroyed. ???**

 

[planten]

nope especially since your prophet said they were all the word of god and hence burning any of them is sacrilege especially since Mohammad said THEY ALL ARE THE WORD OF GOD, which if it’s the case why did Allah allow his word to be burnt after having revealed it in 7 modes he decided to reverses his previous initiative and allow them to be burnt?

**Deus, there was only one Quran which was being recited openly in five daily prayers. Every one heard it daily. There were many who had memorized complete Quran by heart.

There were some different accents (or dialects). it was not necessary to have many dialects of Quran. So it was made sure that one dialect should be used. Otherwise it would have been like your four differing gospels. Then on top of your gospels, you have the many writings of your other lords i.e. letters of supposed apostles. That is more problem to you.

There is no such thing in Quran. It is entirely the revealed words of God. Even the words of Muhammad are not found in it. Nothing could be better.**

 

[trdchubi]

Deus, there was only one Quran which was being recited openly in five daily prayers. Every one heard it daily. There were many who had memorized complete Quran by heart.

… and I thought memorizing is for the brain. Maybe that’s why you are being turned to blind zombies by your profit. He made sure that his minions will repeat all the lies he uttered, have them mimic everything he said and completely brain washed them for good.

Sadly this is always the case of people memorizing things rather than understanding it.

 

[sedonaman]

Deus, there was only one Quran which was being recited openly in five daily prayers. Every one heard it daily. There were many who had memorized complete Quran by heart.

What does that prove? The Trojan War was fought in about 1250 B.C. and its story was recited orally in poetic form by bards until it was written down by Homer c. 800 B.C. as The Iliad whose twenty-four scrolls containing 15,693 lines is much, much longer than the Qur’an, yet no one claims it was a book from God just because it was a great epic poem that had been memorized. However, I can see how primitive desert tribes might consider memorization a miracle from God.

**There were some different accents (or dialects). it was not necessary to have many dialects of Quran. So it was made sure that one dialect should be used.
**

Here you are admitting that the Qur’an is the product of human meddling.

**
Otherwise it would have been like your four differing gospels. Then on top of your gospels, you have the many writings of your other lords i.e. letters of supposed apostles. That is more problem to you.
**

This is not a problem for us because the four gospels and the epistles have the same message.

**
There is no such thing in Quran. It is entirely the revealed words of God.
**

Who told you that? How do you know this to be true? Because Mohammed said so? How can you believe a self-proclaimed prophet? How do you know he wasn’t faking it?

We have asked you these questions many times before, yet you have never answered them because there is no proof that what Mohammed said is true except that he said it. Anyone can claim to have a message from God, and many have; so what made Mohammed so special?

Therefore, none of your claims are anything other than your personal beliefs because you still can’t get around the fact that Mohammed invented his own prophet status and hence Islam itself.

 

[planten]

What does that prove? The Trojan War was fought in about 1250 B.C. and its story was recited orally in poetic form by bards until it was written down by Homer c. 800 B.C. as The Iliad whose twenty-four scrolls containing 15,693 lines is much, much longer than the Qur’an, yet no one claims it was a book from God just because it was a great epic poem that had been memorized. However, I can see how primitive desert tribes might consider memorization a miracle from God.

Sedonaman, do not compare man made books with Quran. You people have admitted that your bible is not from God but it is written by different men. (You say they were inspired. How come? What is the proof?)

Here you are admitting that the Qur’an is the product of human meddling.

**I am not admitting anything. Quran was revealed on the heart of Muhammad gradually over a long period of 23 years. Compare that with short span working life of Jesus (3 years only). Quran was being recited in five daily prayers. For that it had to be memorised. That made sure the safety of the revealed words.There is no man made words in Quran. Not even the words from Muhammad. **

This is not a problem for us because the four gospels and the epistles have the same message

.

It is a big problem to you because not all the gospel writers agree with each other.

Who told you that? How do you know this to be true? Because Mohammed said so? How can you believe a self-proclaimed prophet? How do you know he wasn’t faking it?

**Who told you that Jesus was son of God? Perhaps, because Jesus called God as his father, you assumed that Jesus must be the son of God. Otherwise what is the proof of your theology?. Who told you that Jesus was God?. Did Jesus tell you that?

Then who told Jesus? if you start asking for proofs, we Muslims can similarly ask you for many things that you are supposing and believing in your church theology.**

We have asked you these questions many times before, yet you have never answered them because there is no proof that what Mohammed said is true except that he said it. Anyone can claim to have a message from God, and many have; so what made Mohammed so special?

There is no need to ask us such questions. If you definitely want to ask then first think about your own religion, who told you everything. Was any angel walking with Jesus?Who told you that Jesus was born by a virgin? You will say that these are your basic firm beliefs. You have no other proof. Do you?

Therefore, none of your claims are anything other than your personal beliefs because you still can’t get around the fact that Mohammed invented his own prophet status and hence Islam itself.

Well it is same with you. I am sure i have more proofs than you have about your beliefs. In your religion everything, Trinity, Resurrection etc has to be believed. there is no proof of anything in your religion. There is a principal that Paul has taught you; “You will be saved by faith alone.” Why is that? Because all your beliefs are illogical? What is the reason?

 

[DeusVult09]

**Deus, there was only one Quran which was being recited openly in five daily prayers. Every one heard it daily. There were many who had memorized complete Quran by heart.

There were some different accents (or dialects). it was not necessary to have many dialects of Quran. So it was made sure that one dialect should be used. Otherwise it would have been like your four differing gospels. Then on top of your gospels, you have the many writings of your other lords i.e. letters of supposed apostles. That is more problem to you.

There is no such thing in Quran. It is entirely the revealed words of God. Even the words of Muhammad are not found in it. Nothing could be better.**

1st why was there a need to correct these versions? Why burn them if they said the exactly same thing? and how can you consider doing so not be in a complete and utter sacrilege as Mohammad said that the Koran was revealed in all dialects not just the qurashi dialect, and al l were the word of god . As I have already proven Mohammad himself forgot verses of the Koran. 125 verses including the stoning verses were lost from the Koran because a goat ate them and many other verses were lost due to the death in battle of Muslims. some perfect preservation.

On top of this the sana manuscripts, the Earliest manuscripts of the Koran in existence had their original text washed off and re-written later. Later when scholars examined the sana manuscripts they discovered that the original text possessed a significantly different form with entire Surah’s being re-organsied and edited. Yet Muslims say not 1 word has ever been changed. this is even more unlikely since the Sana manuscirpts used a quffic script which did not have vowel markings which give each word up to 30 different meanings. Even your own scholars have admitted this yet Muslims always go on about the Bible being corrupted.

Whilst there are many textual variants in the manuscripts of the NT almost all of them are minor scribal errors , only 1% of them change the text’s meaning in any significant way and not 1 Christian doctrine is undermined by them.
Whilst there are a few added verses like the end of mark, the johanine comma and John 7:53 There’s no such NT document which is anywhere as damning as the sana manuscripts as they prove that parts of the kroan have been forged and that it possessed a different form.

 

[DeusVult09]

Sedonaman, do not compare man made books with Quran. You people have admitted that your bible is not from God but it is written by different men. (You say they were inspired. How come? What is the proof?)

the Koran is a man-made book as I have proven at the start of this post the koran is made up entirely of plagiarized Christian teachings, oral traditions, myths and even hymns. If the Koran is the word of god please explain to me how a 4th century Christian saint’s hymns about heaven got into the Koran. ( Refer to t he begning of the post where I prove conclusively that even Islamic heaven is palgiarised from Christianity)

**I am not admitting anything. Quran was revealed on the heart of Muhammad gradually over a long period of 23 years. Compare that with short span working life of Jesus (3 years only). Quran was being recited in five daily prayers. For that it had to be memorised. That made sure the safety of the revealed words.There is no man made words in Quran. Not even the words from Muhammad. **

I have already proven that Mohammad had trouble memorizing it , forgetting ayyat’s and entire surah’s. Furthermore these 7 dialects of the Koran were not really caused by jibril wanting to make things easier for the Muslims but rather by the Koran lacking a written for m during the 20 years of Mohammad’s prophet hood which produced these variations as it evolved.

**Who told you that Jesus was son of God? Perhaps, because Jesus called God as his father, you assumed that Jesus must be the son of God. Otherwise what is the proof of your theology?. Who told you that Jesus was God?. Did Jesus tell you that? **

St Thomas said to Jesus “my lord and my god” to which Jesus replies that “you believe because you have seen , blessed are those who believe and have not seen.” Jesus accepts being called god. This is not the expression “ohh my god” as Muslim apologists have argued. The Greek grammar clearly points to Thomas calling Jesus his god. I can prove it t right here. verse goes in greek : ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ• ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου. which taken literally means “answered Thomas and said to him: The lord of me and the God of me.” The masculine dative singular pronoun αὐτῷ clearly indicates Thomas said it “to him” (Jesus) if he was saying this to somebody else it would be indicated in the text. If Thomas was saying this to more than one person the plural pronoun, αὐτοῖς would have been used and as it clearly isn’t. Secondly the genitive singular pronoun μου which literally means “of me” or “my” indicates possession. So St Thomas is saying to Jeusus the god of me ὁ θεός μου.

If this was the expression “oh my god” as Muslims say it would be “Ωωω Θεέ μου” in Greek. Θεέ is the vocative form of the noun θεός (theos) or god. In Greek there is a special form of each noun called vocative which is used just especially for exclamations such as “ohh my god”

Θεέ however is not used in the text but rather θεός is, in the nominative form
which indicates that that God is the subject. As “Θεέ μου” is not used in the vocative, the proper way to say this expression in Greek it is clear this is not what the text is saying. Furthermore if this is the xpression “ohh my god” the direct article ὁ (the) should not have been used. St Thomas is clearly calling Jesus god and no amount of muslim taqiyah can get around that.

There is no need to ask us such questions. If you definitely want to ask then first think about your own religion, who told you everything. Was any angel walking with Jesus?Who told you that Jesus was born by a virgin? You will say that these are your basic firm beliefs. You have no other proof. Do you?

haha but the koran also says Jesus is born of a virgin too so I have to ask you what’s your proof its true? Just because it in the koran? Hahah hence your are again a hypocrite for criticizing sedonaman for something you yourself have to take in faith.

Well it is same with you. I am sure i have more proofs than you have about your beliefs. In your religion everything, Trinity, Resurrection etc has to be believed. there is no proof of anything in your religion. There is a principal that Paul has taught you; “You will be saved by faith alone.” Why is that? Because all your beliefs are illogical? What is the reason?

haha if everything is proved in Islam show me just 1 shred of archeological proof that mecca existed during the time of Ibrahim. Just single shred of proof. You cannot prove any of the biblical prophets were Muslims. Hell you cant prove the 120,000 prophets Allah sent mankind ever existed. So don’t get me started on proof. Where is the proof the kaba existed 2000 BC? What proof do you have that Jibril actually recited the koran to mohamamd? What proof do you have that Mohamamd’s night journey took place. None! So your claims that is has more proof than Christianity is laughable. More hypocrisy

 

[sedonaman]

… the koran is made up entirely of plagiarized Christian teachings, oral traditions, myths and even hymns. …

Well, not entirely. Neither the Verses of the Sword nor the Satanic Verses came from plagiarized Christian ideas.

haha but the koran also says Jesus is born of a virgin too so I have to ask you what’s your proof its true? Just because it in the koran? Hahah hence your are again a hypocrite for criticizing sedonaman for something you yourself have to take in faith.

haha. if everything is proved in Islam show me just 1 shred of archeological proof that mecca existed during the time of Ibrahim. Just single shred of proof. You cannot prove any of the biblical prophets were Muslims. Hell you cant prove the 120,000 prophets Allah sent mankind ever existed. So don’t get me started on proof. Where is the proof the kaba existed 2000 BC? What proof do you have that Jibril actually recited the koran to mohamamd? What proof do you have that Mohamamd’s night journey took place. None! …

Again, not exactly. His proof is that Mohammed said these things so they must be true because Mohammed is Allah’s messenger. How do we know Mohammed is Allah’s messenger? He said it, so it must be true. For a rigorous discussion of this circular reasoning, see The Prophet Factory: A Tale of Poor Argumentation and Moral Inconsistency.

 

[sedonaman]

**…
**I am not admitting anything. Quran was revealed on the heart of Muhammad gradually over a long period of 23 years… ****

So, pray tell how it got from Mohammad’s heart to the written book of today. I’ll tell you: A man had to write it down. Ergo, the Qur’an is a man-made book.

 

[Christos]

Hahah that’s nothing in one hadith, aisha talks about Mohammad’s cum stains and how he’d put water on them before he prayed. Its so crack up. I mean why would you record that for posterity?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it (water spots were still visible).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 231:
Narrated Sulaiman bin Yasar:
I asked 'Aisha about the clothes soiled with semen. She replied, "I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah’s Apostle and he would go for the prayer while water spots were still visible. "

The reason behind this is because semen is considered impure and this states that it must first be washed off before going to prayer. Common sense. Islam a religon of purity in he sense of cleanliness also.

Sahih Muslim
Book 2, Number 0432
Cleanliness is half of Faith

 

[Christos]

[23:13] Verily, We created man from an extract of clay;​

[23:14] Then We placed him as a drop of sperm in a safe depository;​

[23:15] Then We fashioned the sperm into a clot; then We fashioned the clot into a shapeless lump; then We fashioned bones out of this shapeless lump; then We clothed the bones with flesh; then We developed it into another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators.

This beautiful verse telling us of embryology which could only be discovered within the past maybe 100 years was told in great ACCURATE detail in the quran. This could never be known by any man but still it was written in the Glorious Quran. Is this too from the Christian Bible? No it is not. This is the word of God, and even though the Bible was the word of God, however corrupt it eventually became, it did not have this.

 

[DeusVult09]

The reason behind this is because semen is considered impure and this states that it must first be washed off before going to prayer. Common sense. Islam a religon of purity in he sense of cleanliness also.

Sahih Muslim
Book 2, Number 0432
Cleanliness is half of Faith

1st of mankind will never be pure enough for god so such vain little things seem pointless to me. Cleanliness has nothing to do with faith, just because you perform ablutions before you pray doesn’t mean anything.

But my point was why record that Mohammad had jizz stains like 3 times in Sahih Bukhari? Why record that for posterity …of all things ? its ludicrous!

 

[DeusVult09]

[23:13] Verily, We created man from an extract of clay;​

[23:14] Then We placed him as a drop of sperm in a safe depository;​

[23:15] Then We fashioned the sperm into a clot; then We fashioned the clot into a shapeless lump; then We fashioned bones out of this shapeless lump; then We clothed the bones with flesh; then We developed it into another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators.

This beautiful verse telling us of embryology which could only be discovered within the past maybe 100 years was told in great ACCURATE detail in the quran. This could never be known by any man but still it was written in the Glorious Quran. Is this too from the Christian Bible? No it is not. This is the word of God, and even though the Bible was the word of God, however corrupt it eventually became, it did not have this.

hahah please take your scientific miracles else where because they are all ridiculous. The Embryology of the kroan is copied from ancient greek embryology

 

[Christos]

hahah please take your scientific miracles else where because they are all ridiculous. The Embryology of the kroan is copied from ancient greek embryology

Please show me where this Ancient Greek Embryology is written. I am sincerely interested. If it really did exist, then show me, as I have shown you, rather than simply speaking of it.