Islam's Plagiarized Christian Origins

[Christos]

The fact that the original text was washed off and re written with another has convinced some scholars the quran has been changed. The original text when it was examined forensically revealed that it had been altered and re-edited. Yet Muslims say not 1 word has ever been changed, that it’s the same as when Jibril (allaegedly) revealed it. This is not the case, these manuscripts. Yes that’s true without these vowel markings each word had up to 30 different meanings. And you are complaining about corruption in the bible? Haha what hypocrisy! You have no answer for the Sana manuscripts and if they weren’t damning then the Yemenite authorities wouldn’t be hiding them away preventing further examination.

This is what Gerd Puin, A Quran scholar, Arabic Colligraphy expert and Orthographer at Saarland University said about the manuscripts after examining them
“My idea is that the Koran is a kind of cocktail of texts that were not all understood even at the time of Muhammad. Many of them may even be a hundred years older than Islam itself. Even within the Islamic traditions there is a huge body of contradictory information, including a significant Christian substrate; one can derive a whole Islamic anti-history from them if one wants. The Qur’an claims for itself that it is ‘mubeen,’ or clear, but if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn’t make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur’anic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur’an is not comprehensible, if it can’t even be understood in Arabic, then it’s not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid. Since the Qur’an claims repeatedly to be clear but is not—there is an obvious and serious contradiction. Something else must be going on.”

We are not afraid of it. We have accepted it. Like i said before the Muslim Scholars know of how the Sahaba (Companions) had their own fragmented copies of the quran. As to it being erased. If you had had just 1 piece of paper. You got someone to write a verse on it so you could memorize it. Then after you memorized it, you erased it and then had them write a new verse on it for you to memorize would that mean you are changing the word of god, because under the current layer of writing you can still see the old with ultra violet lights.

As of the words having possible 30 different meanings please read back to my posts. I have explained them already, but you are still ignorrant of that and continue to accuse.

Forgive me for anything I’ve said that has offended you.

 

[DeusVult09]

The Quran itself is a form of poetry one of exqusite eloquence. However, God does not need a microscope to know about embryology. Thus he was able to tell Muhammad and us all through his Quran. Our point exactly is the accuracy of this imformation, and how it is one example that proves that this is the word of God. We all know Muhammad did not have a microscope, but knowing you, I’m sure you could find a way to prove that he did right?

hahah i have proven that a lot of the poetry in the koran is straight from some christian hymns. hahah there is no science in the Koran Mohammad knew nothing of science, I studied the Koran and hadith and came to that conclusion (especially in Sahih Bukhari and sahih muslim Mohammad makes some very unscientific statements… but thats because theya re all corrupted right?)

All there is , is muslim misinformation like Dr Naik’s claim that the 7 heavens mentioned in the Koran are actually 7 layers of the atmosphere hahaah. its so absurd especially because that comes straight from an old jewish legend about 7 heavens.

the embryology of the Koran is dodgy to say the least bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-embryology.htm

No matter how much you go on about the science in the Koran it wont convince me of anything especially since there are many unscientific things in the Koran. Like mountains preventing the earth from quaking for example or Allah holding up birds.

Zakir Naik propagates such absurdities. all Muslims can say is that there are scientific miracles in the Koran but when you examine them it isn’t the case and as I said in the hadith its even worse you have Mohammad making statements about black cumin curing every disease but death, hellfire causing fevers and hot days, 90 ft adam , the seasons existing because hellfire complained. Etc He knew nothing of science and if that’s all you have i wont waste anymore of my time on Dr Naiks propaganda.

 

[DeusVult09]

We are not afraid of it. We have accepted it. Like i said before the Muslim Scholars know of how the Sahaba (Companions) had their own fragmented copies of the quran. As to it being erased. If you had had just 1 piece of paper. You got someone to write a verse on it so you could memorize it. Then after you memorized it, you erased it and then had them write a new verse on it for you to memorize would that mean you are changing the word of god, because under the current layer of writing you can still see the old with ultra violet lights.

As of the words having possible 30 different meanings please read back to my posts. I have explained them already, but you are still ignorrant of that and continue to accuse.

Forgive me for anything I’ve said that has offended you.

If your not afraid of it then why do the Yemenite authorities prevent any further studies of the sana manuscripts? No you haven’t explained why the Koran used a script which gave up to 30 different meanings for each single word and you haven’t explained why the original text was washed off and re-written. You haven’t explained any of that . Memorisation?

i have said it 100 times even Mohammed forgot the koran so just saying it was memorized perfectly in no way refutes the sana manuscripts and you have failed to do anything of the sort.

It is not just it being matter of the original text being washed off after it was written , the examined text had beenr seriously altered and was in a completely different form. The surah’s were edited and mixed together differently.

this is why they are so damning. Furthermore you haven’t even tried to refute my original post which proves the Koran is plagiarized.

So im ignorant ? that’s a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. The 30 different meanings for each word and that not corruption? You say that its ok because they all memorized it perfectly. You cannot prove this. You cannot prove how well they memorized it. In the NT manuscripts there are variants but never that many for the same word.

 

[DeusVult09]

I don care about this science stuff all I want to know is how come the original text of these manuscripts is so radically different from the Koran we have today. Muslims always say not 1 word has been changed but that just isn’t the case.

. You said that that people cant change god’s words but these manuscripts prove the Koran has been changed. And you cant answer this, even Islamic scholars have admitted how damning these manuscripts are. So its not just an invention of us Kafirs.

I don’t care about your memorization arguments as you cannot prove how well people memorized something 1400 years ago.

Answer these questions sufficiently and also explain to me how so many things from Christian text made their way into the Koran.

 

[Christos]

I don care about this science stuff all I want to know is how come the original text of these manuscripts is so radically different from the Koran we have today. Muslims always say not 1 word has been changed but that just isn’t the case.

. You said that that people cant change god’s words but these manuscripts prove the Koran has been changed. And you cant answer this, even Islamic scholars have admitted how damning these manuscripts are. So its not just an invention of us Kafirs.

I don’t care about your memorization arguments as you cannot prove how well people memorized something 1400 years ago.

Answer these questions sufficiently and also explain to me how so many things from Christian text made their way into the Koran.

You are using a Germans perspective on the Quran. Have you used an Arab’s perspective. Just how you have your prejudices and find fault with many things, they too went and tricked the Yeminites for their own prejudice filled reasons. Can you show me any notable Islamic scholar who has admitted how damning these manuscripts are. Just as the Old Testament found its way into the New Testament, the Old and New Testament found its way into the Quran.

 

[DeusVult09]

You are using a Germans perspective on the Quran. Have you used an Arab’s perspective. Just how you have your prejudices and find fault with many things, they too went and tricked the Yeminites for their own prejudice filled reasons. Can you show me any notable Islamic scholar who has admitted how damning these manuscripts are. Just as the Old Testament found its way into the New Testament, the Old and New Testament found its way into the Quran.

He is an eminent professor of Islam but he doesn’t matter because hes German and not Arab? Wow that’s a huge prejudice right there!
Im pretty sure the guy isn’t a Christian so what his motive?

I don’t know any Arabic scholars off the top of my head. Sorry. Prejudiced filled reasons? Haha they tricked nobody that is utter garbage. My god you cant lay off the taqiyah can you? Not even for a minute . Whats your proof he was prejudiced? Just because you don’t like his verdict? Come on!
Dr Puin was invited to examine the manuscripts by the Yemenite antiquities authority but when the amnsucripts revealed their damning secretsthey hid them away.

You haven’t been able to answer 1 single thing.

The NT And its relationship with the OT is completely different from the NT and the koran.

The Early Christians were all Jews as Christianity was a messianic Jewish movement. The early Christians didn’t consider themselves Christians just messianic Jews. Jesus was a Jews, all the early disciples were Jews, most of the NT writers were Jews (with the exception of Luke) and Paul was a Jew. Christianity is a Jewish religion so it conceivable that there is going to be stuff from the OT in the NT. Furthermore this is not plagiarism because in nearly all instances it is directly quoted and not ripped off and passed off as their own work like the Koran does.

Islam didn’t grow out of Christianity in anywhere near the same way as Mohammad was never a Christian but was heavily influenced by Christianity. He appropriated stuff from Christianity and passed it off as his own revelation. So your argument doesn’t really work, its not the same thing as the OT and the NT.

Furthermore most of the texts I mentioned aren’t even in the NT like the apocryphal texts I mentioned about Jesus’ life or St Ephrem’s hymn’s on paradise or the 7 sleepers of Ephesus. Are these revelations of allah too? If so why aren’t they mentioned in the Koran? And I thought there weren’t any messengers or prophets between Mohammad and Jesus? So who were they revealed to?Are hymns a previous revelation of allah too? Is that what your telling me? hymns? Hahah

I have prejudices? Haah I just follow the evidence and the evidence says Mohammad is guilty of plagiarism and no Muslim has ever been able to explain any of this to me with any sort of consistent answer other than “its all a previous revelation” and when I ask for proof they say “the Koran is proof” and when I ask for proof other the Koran I get silence.

First im ignorant now im prejudiced what else? hahaha

 

[murtad]

Nope! Christianity is a Jewish religion. Jesus was a Jew, all the early disciples were Jews and most of the New Testament writers were Jews. Chrisitanity cant plagiarize Judaism because it is a Jewish religion. Its not the same as Islam and Christianity. Islam emerged outside Christianity but it still had many Christian influences as I have proven conclusively. I have systematically exposed the blatant plagiarism of the Koran now try and formulate a response to it.

There is no religion called “Christianity” as our Nicene Creed declares the proper name of the religion founded by Jesus as Church. The true Church is the Roman Catholic Church, as New Testament contains prophecy about Vatican City being the rock that the gates of hades will never prevail against.

All the other Apostolic Sees ( St Andrew’s See in Byzantium, St Mark’s See in Alexandria, and St Thomas See in Babylon ) were conquered by the Islamic armies.

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by DeusVult09
Nope! Christianity is a Jewish religion. Jesus was a Jew, all the early disciples were Jews and most of the New Testament writers were Jews. Chrisitanity cant plagiarize Judaism because it is a Jewish religion. Its not the same as Islam and Christianity. Islam emerged outside Christianity but it still had many Christian influences as I have proven conclusively. I have systematically exposed the blatant plagiarism of the Koran now try and formulate a response to it.

**Deus, Quran did not take even a single word from your bibleNT. There was no need at all. It claims to be the direct word of God. Quran talks about the real life story of Mary and Jesus and Moses and Joseph son of Jacob. Wuran tells all about the prophet Jacob and his father Issac and his father Abraham.
But Quran nowhere says that Jacob stole the blessings of his elder brother and cheated his father. There is nothign about Noah and Abraham and Jacob and Issac and Moses in your bibleNT. So if at at all the quran plagiarised the bible, it must be the bibleOT. But where do you see any such problem? Is there any hatred of Hagar by sarai in the Quran?

Is there any dirty works mentioned in the bibleOT of different prophets in teh Quran? That settles for the bibleOT. Now come to the bibleNT. Doe sthe Quran teach about Trinity. Or does it smash the idea of Trinity? Did the Quran say that jesus was son of God? Did it say that Jesus die son the Cross and later came to life? Nothing of the sort.

Did Quran teach three gods (in One God)? Please understand the real things.**

 

[Christos]

Thank you brother, ive been moving from one thread to another and being so taken in that i never got a chance to return to this one. Please see to the other thread of Questions on Islam - round 4. Jazakallah Khair, and May Allah Give Us ALL Jannah

 

[cthulhubryan]

**Deus, Quran did not take even a single word from your bibleNT. There was no need at all. It claims to be the direct word of God. Quran talks about the real life story of Mary and Jesus and Moses and Joseph son of Jacob. Wuran tells all about the prophet Jacob and his father Issac and his father Abraham.
But Quran nowhere says that Jacob stole the blessings of his elder brother and cheated his father. There is nothign about Noah and Abraham and Jacob and Issac and Moses in your bibleNT. So if at at all the quran plagiarised the bible, it must be the bibleOT. But where do you see any such problem? Is there any hatred of Hagar by sarai in the Quran?

Is there any dirty works mentioned in the bibleOT of different prophets in teh Quran? That settles for the bibleOT. Now come to the bibleNT. Doe sthe Quran teach about Trinity. Or does it smash the idea of Trinity? Did the Quran say that jesus was son of God? Did it say that Jesus die son the Cross and later came to life? Nothing of the sort.

Did Quran teach three gods (in One God)? Please understand the real things.**

Planten,

Since you buy into what you say above, please allow me to introduce you to several Nigerian business men who need help transferring money overseas.

Of course, that is a 4-1-9 scam and you would never fall for a scam. Oh, wait… I see you already did.

 

[DeusVult09]

There is no religion called “Christianity” as our Nicene Creed declares the proper name of the religion founded by Jesus as Church. The true Church is the Roman Catholic Church, as New Testament contains prophecy about Vatican City being the rock that the gates of hades will never prevail against.

All the other Apostolic Sees ( St Andrew’s See in Byzantium, St Mark’s See in Alexandria, and St Thomas See in Babylon ) were conquered by the Islamic armies.

Hi murtad nice to meet you. I haven’t met many murtads on here. If you don’t mind me asking … How did you become catholic?

 

[DeusVult09]

**Deus, Quran did not take even a single word from your bibleNT. There was no need at all. It claims to be the direct word of God. Quran talks about the real life story of Mary and Jesus and Moses and Joseph son of Jacob. Wuran tells all about the prophet Jacob and his father Issac and his father Abraham.
But Quran nowhere says that Jacob stole the blessings of his elder brother and cheated his father. There is nothign about Noah and Abraham and Jacob and Issac and Moses in your bibleNT. So if at at all the quran plagiarised the bible, it must be the bibleOT. But where do you see any such problem? Is there any hatred of Hagar by sarai in the Quran?

Is there any dirty works mentioned in the bibleOT of different prophets in teh Quran? That settles for the bibleOT. Now come to the bibleNT. Doe sthe Quran teach about Trinity. Or does it smash the idea of Trinity? Did the Quran say that jesus was son of God? Did it say that Jesus die son the Cross and later came to life? Nothing of the sort.

Did Quran teach three gods (in One God)? Please understand the real things.**

I have already proven in this post that not only did the Koran plagiarized the NT but also the NT Apocrypha, St Ephrem’s hymns on paradise and the Seven sleepers of Ephesus. No Muslims can answer me how these extra-biblical texts got into the kroan, the alleged word of god.

Real life story of Mary, Joseph and Jesus? Haha! Everything about Jesus in the Koran is taken from spurious apocryphal gospels (as i have already proven at the beginning of this post). Many of these Apocryphal gospels were written a lot later than the Canonical gospels yet they are more accurate because their dubious tales made their way into your holy book? I dotn think so!

Hahah no! Mohammad plagiarized Noah, Abraham and Moses from the OT.

I have already proven that the Koran copied so much from Christianity and no Muslim has been able to put together a valid response. Even your jannah is ripped from some 4th century Christian hymns. If its not plagiarism how did these hymns get into the Koran? The saint who wrote them really a was a Muslim? Please explain n that to me. Just because the trinity isn’t taught in the Koran doesn’t mean Mohammad didn’t rip
other ideas from Christianity. Islam is just a Christian heresy.

And by the way we don’t believe in 3 gods. If you think we do provide one verse from the bible where it says we believe in 3 gods to back up your argument. Just 1 verse where it explicitly says that we follow 3 gods and are polytheists and ill convert to Islam right now.

 

[DeusVult09]

Planten,

Since you buy into what you say above, please allow me to introduce you to several Nigerian business men who need help transferring money overseas.

Of course, that is a 4-1-9 scam and you would never fall for a scam. Oh, wait… I see you already did.

Hahah quite a good analogy islam and those Nigerian business scams lol just the only difference is that islam hurts you eternally whilst the Nigerians just hurt your pocket

 

[DeusVult09]

Thank you brother, ive been moving from one thread to another and being so taken in that i never got a chance to return to this one. Please see to the other thread of Questions on Islam - round 4. Jazakallah Khair, and May Allah Give Us ALL Jannah

Allah wont give you Jannah. As I have said 50 times your Jannah doesn’t exist and is just plagiarized from st Ephrem the Syrians hymns on paradise in every respect. You have failed to offer any kind of defense against my cast iron evidence on the subject. ohh well such a Pity all those suicide bombers blew themselves up for a non-existant paradise plagiarized from some 4th century syriac Christian hymns ohhh well lol!

 

[sedonaman]

The Quran itself is a form of poetry one of exqusite eloquence.

So are The Iliad, The Odyssey, The Aeneid, Beowulf, the Song of Roland, and El Poemo del Mio Cid, but nobody claims they are proof of anyone’s prophethood.

However, God does not need a microscope to know about embryology. Thus he was able to tell Muhammad and us all through his Quran. Our point exactly is the accuracy of this imformation, and how it is one example that proves that this is the word of God. …

Even the most primitive of tribes knows that man is formed out of the dust of the earth. If what you say is true, all it proves is that Islamic societies should technologically be 500 years ahead of anyone else on the planet. As it is, even King Hussein of Jordan had to come to America for medical treatment.

 

[sedonaman]

…
Also, The Quran Challenged the Arabs to produce something of the like, which has such beauty, such eloquence. Many people have tried, and failed to do so.

The fact that present company cannot write poetry of beauty and eloquence proves nothing other than that present company cannot write poetry of beauty and eloquence. Take a random group of Muslims and challenge them to write something comparable to Beethoven’s 9th Symphony or Vivaldi’s Four Seasons, and what do you have? Merely some Muslims who lack that kind of talent. It does not prove that Beethoven’s 9th Symphony or Vivaldi’s Four Seasons is the word of God written to music.

 

[sedonaman]

Furthermore, the fact is that the existence of minor differences in wording and in the ordering of the surahs in the earliest masahif (manuscripts) is no surprise to Muslims familiar with classical Islamic scholarship of the Qur’an. Such variations occurred for several reasons. One factor is the dialectical differences then existing in different regions of Arabia. Another is that some of the Sahaba kiram (Companions) recorded such masahif for their own personal use. As these persons had either memorised the Qur’an in its entirety or large portions of it, such masahif were written merely as an aid to memory. Therefore, notes in the margins such as the wording of du’as (supplications) occurred, and the order of surahs varied. Books written by classical Muslim scholars, such as al-Suyuti’s Itqan, go into great detail about such issues.

When the the Khalifa 'Uthman ibn 'Affan ordered that one standard text be used and others destroyed, the Sahaba who possessed masahif containing variants did not object to this ruling, which shows that they agreed with his verdict. Moreover, in the subsequent civil war between the supporters of the Khalifa Ali ibn Abi-Talib and Mu’awiya, calls for arbitration according to the Qur’an never involved claims that the other side had an incomplete or changed Qur’an. This would have been a convenient and devastating weapon if it could have been at all convincing. Knowledge about these variations has been preserved by classical Muslim scholarship, and has been useful to scholars of tafsir (Qur’anic interpretation). It was never seen as evidence against the integrity of the Qur’anic text

Sounds like the word of Allah has been changed to suit a few men.

 

[sedonaman]

He is an eminent professor of Islam but he doesn’t matter because hes German and not Arab? Wow that’s a huge prejudice right there!
Im pretty sure the guy isn’t a Christian so what his motive?

I presume you are talking about the seventh century Qur’an found in Yemen.

It has to be the true Qur’an because it dates from first century of Hijra and was discovered in the Great Mosque of Sana’a (Yemen). The present standard one significantly differs from the ancient Yemeni Qur’an [the modern version has the word “sword” removed]. Carbon dating system confirmed that the ancient Qur’an is not one forged by religious rivalries or kafirs [infidels/non-believers]. Moreover, the ancient Qur’an [complete with the word “sword”] was discovered by Muslims, not kafirs. The one today is different because it has been corrupted by men. Perhaps the ancient one has the verses of Jesus and the cup. If so, then the Qur’an you have today is not a true Qur’an.

 

[sedonaman]

**Deus, Quran did not take even a single word from your bibleNT. There was no need at all. It claims to be the direct word of God. Quran talks about the real life story of Mary and Jesus and Moses and Joseph son of Jacob. Wuran tells all about the prophet Jacob and his father Issac and his father Abraham.
But Quran nowhere says that Jacob stole the blessings of his elder brother and cheated his father. There is nothign about Noah and Abraham and Jacob and Issac and Moses in your bibleNT. So if at at all the quran plagiarised the bible, it must be the bibleOT. But where do you see any such problem? Is there any hatred of Hagar by sarai in the Quran?
**

Let’s see. “Quran talks about … Mary and Jesus and Joseph.” But, “Quran did not take even a single word from your bibleNT.”

So where did these NT folks come from who are in the Quran?

 

[AFskater]

This may be a little off topic but it follows. Just look at many of the old religions and you’ll find the similarities. Take a look at the great flood, both books have that, but so does the mayan culture and the book of zen. and not just the great flood either but other stories as well… who’s to say that the quran copied the bible? may it was the other way around… maybe, maybe not, but it makes on think you know?