Isn't the Catholic worry over contraception slightly ridiculous?

[revab1991]

What would you do if the condom failed, and you became pregnant? This happens all the time. You are correct in pointing out people have too much faith in condoms. It seems you may be part of that number.
Actions have consequences. Tell us your plan when the unexpected happens.

 

[St_Francis]

You could make the same argument about NFP. That if you use NFP you can’t and won’t accept pregnancy.

Using abc means that a couple is frustrating the end of the act they are engaged in. Using NFP to avoid conception means the couple is *not *engaging in the act.

The sin is not avoiding conception but engaging in sexual activity while frustrating the end if the act. You are saying to God, Who gave us the pleasure of the act along with its purpose: well, God, I want the pleasure but no possibility of a baby.

And, according to many people on these forums, NFP is actually better at preventing pregnancy than birth control…so people using birth control are actually MORE open to life than people using NFP.

No, because those who avoid conception by abstaining from sex at certain times do not block the possibility of conception when they are do have sex.

And what about after menopause? If you have sex with your wife after menopause you are just doing it for pleasure. There is absolutely no chance of you getting pregnant.

No, because the reason that conception won’t occur is not that the couple has done something to prevent it but because that is the way human bodies work… and sometimes a baby comes along anyway. And maybe the couple would like a baby to be conceived and is not thinking, oh, I am so happy I can finally have sex without worrrying about conceiving.

Sheesh. Babies are blessings, not curses!

 

[beenwashed]

cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/19/10/2496.short

“Results: During 1,246,967 person-years of follow-up, 1,344 cases of invasive breast cancer were diagnosed. Past use of any oral contraceptive was not related to breast cancer risk [multivariate relative risk (RR), 1.12; 95% confidence interval 0.95-1.33]. Current use of any oral contraceptive was related to a marginally significant higher risk (multivariate RR, 1.33; 95% CI, 1.03-1.73). One specific formulation substantially accounted for the excess risk: the RR for current use of triphasic preparations with levonorgestrel as the progestin was 3.05 (95% CI, 2.00-4.66; P < 0.0001).”

About 1 out of 1000 women in this study developed breast cancer and past use of birth control was not related to breast cancer risk. Current use was slightly related but it was one specific birth control that accounted for excess risk.

So if 1 out of every 1000 women in the study got breast cancer, and current use of birth control only accounted for a small increase of risk, how many women out of that 1.25 million could really attribute their breast cancer to birth control? Certainly not very many…and it looks like one specific formula was basically the sole culprit.

And where is your science? Please don’t cite some Catholic website or lifesitenews or something ridiculous.

m.cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/19/8/2073.full

 

[beenwashed]

An excess risk of breast cancer…although EXTREMELY LOW and likely caused by one specific birth control.

Oral contraceptives are on the same carcinogenic list as asbestos, arsenic, HPV, and mustard gas.

 

[thewanderer]

But if a man can have sex and turns me down because the Church tells him contraception is wrong then he is putting his blind faith in the church over me as a person he is supposed to be connected with.

This is actually quite offensive. Why do you assume that just because we are Catholic that we only believe what we do about morality because the Church tells us to? Isn’t it actually possible that our whole philosophical outlook on life actually lines up with Church teaching on such matters? You come across as being very disdainful of Catholics throughout this thread and it really is not appreciated. Just because you do not agree with us doesn’t mean that we are mindless, or brainwashed or intellectually dishonest or anything like that. It just means that we look at the world from two completely different points of view. Please make an effort to leave out any derogatory remarks from future postings.

 

[Joe_5859]

Welcome to CAF! I know others have made some similar points, but I just want to add a bit of reinforcement.

For me, the Church’s teaching on artificial contraception has always made sense. Even when I had my doubts about Jesus, the Church, and the Bible, I never questioned the Church’s sexual moral teaching. It always rung true.

I really do think that the stance over contraception is insane. It’s only the Catholic Church who obsess over the sin of sex. I don’t think any other Christian denominations are so obsessed.

As others have said, it is the secular society that is sex-obsessed. But also, the Church does not teach that sex is a sin. Quite the opposite. If one engages in sex outside the proper context, then it is a sin.

There are so many bad things happening in the world. Starvation, poverty, homelessness, war and disease to name a few. But so many Catholics are far more concerned about the consequences of using shockcontraceptionshock. I mean there are so many wrongs in the world but God just happens to be incredibly concerned by who takes contraception. How ridiculous.

This is what I like to call the “cannot-walk-and-chew-gum-at-the-same-time” fallacy. Simply because Large Horrifying Problem X exists in the world does not mean that we ignore Lesser Problem Y. We can address all the evils and problems in the world, even the smaller ones (though I would not grant that contraception is only a small problem).

My ex-boyfriend, who was Catholic, agreed with me on this. He kept pushing me to take Contraception and completely ignored the official Catholic stance on the issue.

Lots of Catholics ignore Catholic teaching on a number of different issues. That says more about them than the Church.

Don’t you guys think worrying over contraception, which does nothing aside from lowering the probability of STIs and Pregnancy, is ridiculous? What real harm does contraception do to anyone? It’s utterly stupid.

Calling something “stupid” repeatedly does not make it so. I understand the impulse to think that contraception is a small, insignificant thing. But it has really far-reaching and profound consequences, not the least of which is a loss of the sense of human dignity. When we divorce the very creation of human persons from the natural act that produces them, we start to view people as commodities. Instead of looking at who they are, we look at what they can do and produce. It only takes a casual glance at our present world to see that this is exactly what is happening and to see all the evil that results from such a mentality.

I would encourage you to read Pope Paul VI’s prophetic Humanae Vitae. Everything he said would happen by allowing contraception has happened. Human actions don’t exist in a vaccuum. Even personal sin has far-reaching societal consequences. People don’t start out by committing large heinous sins. They start with small, socially acceptable ones.

Or are you going to live out your life only having sex to have children or follow NFP (which often causes unplanned pregnancy and incredible financial strain).

I would encourage you to read up on the statistics for NFP. NFP has a much higher success rate than artificial contraception.

 

[sw85]

The goodness of a thing simply is characteristic excellence. Thus a “good sandwich” is a characteristically excellent sandwich (i.e., tasty and/or nutrition), a “good dog” is a characteristically excellent dog (i.e., loyal, obedient, companionable, etc.), and a “good person” is a person who is characteristically excellent, i.e., virtuous (where “virtues” are understood as those habits of perfection that characterize the best of people – prudence, justice, temperance, fortitude, faith, hope, and charity).

So, in other words, to be a “good person” is simply to be what God made us to be. To be good is to honor the order of being which God ordained. Now it is part of human nature that he is divided into two sexes, and that these sexes exist for reproduction, hence why we call the sexual faculty the “reproductive system.” Since men have reason and free will, it follows that they are able to discern what the moral demands of his own nature and is free to act on those demands; therefore a good (i.e., characteristically excellent) man will discern the fact that he has a reproductive system which is ordered toward reproduction and will act appropriately, i.e., by using it in those manners which are appropriate to it.

(Note that my use of God above is intended to help Catholics understand the natural law. It’s not strictly speaking necessary to it. This is why natural law theology has its origins in Aristotle, who was pre-Christian).

Since, as I said, the sexual faculty is naturally ordered toward procreation, it follows that it is contrary to the natural order to use it in a contrary manner. Thus contraception, which seeks to make use of the sexual faculty while deliberately thwarting its purpose, is an evil.

Now if a thing is evil than that is harmful to the soul follows simply by definition. That’s what sin is: action contrary to one’s own good. Sin is an act of spiritual suicide, born of spiritual madness (i.e., the darkness of the intellect which elevates inferior goods above superior ones).

 

[iloveangels]

Are you claiming that because I’m Atheist I automatically can’t understand Christian Dogma.

Because if you are that’s a terrible and hilariously bad argument.

If you’re not Catholic, why do you care? Is this a busybody thing or what?

There isn’t much I liked from the 70s, but there is one saying I really liked: “Some people need to get a life.” Even more pertinent today than it was then.

 

[MarkInOregon]

I really do think that the stance over contraception is insane. It’s only the Catholic Church who obsess over the sin of sex. I don’t think any other Christian denominations are so obsessed.

There are so many bad things happening in the world. Starvation, poverty, homelessness, war and disease to name a few. But so many Catholics are far more concerned about the consequences of using shockcontraceptionshock. I mean there are so many wrongs in the world but God just happens to be incredibly concerned by who takes contraception. How ridiculous.

My ex-boyfriend, who was Catholic, agreed with me on this. He kept pushing me to take Contraception and completely ignored the official Catholic stance on the issue.

Don’t you guys think worrying over contraception, which does nothing aside from lowering the probability of STIs and Pregnancy, is ridiculous? What real harm does contraception do to anyone? It’s utterly stupid.

Or are you going to live out your life only having sex to have children or follow NFP (which often causes unplanned pregnancy and incredible financial strain).

Dear LauraMajestic,

1. It is not the Catholic Church who is obsessed with the “sin of sex” or contraception. You a self professed atheist came here to talk about it–I’d say you are the one obsessed about it. Those who respond will simply be defending the Churches teaching on the matter.
2. The Church does not teach the “sin of sex”. In other words sex is not a sin per se. It is only sex outside of marriage that is sinful. Sex within in marriage is beautiful.
3. The Church is very concerned with starvation, poverty, homelessness, war and disease–and does much in an attempt to aleviate them. With so many bads things happening in the world why are you so obsessed with sex and contraception that you are here creating a thread about them? Rather than about these other pressing problems?
4. It is people like yourself and the world who are obessed with sex and contraception. The Church has clear teaching regarding these matters–I as a Catholic trying to live out my faith do not spend any time thinking about it–except when I see a thread such as yours. We don’t use contraception and I don’t engage in sexual activity with anyone other than my wife–so it really isn’t us who are obsessed with these matters. Those wishing to engage in fornication and justify contraception and other nonmarital sexual activity come here ranting and complaining about Church teaching --it is those people who are obessed not the Catholic Chruch.

Peace,
Mark

 

[MaryT777]

That’s really not true. Women may want to abuse contraception and view men as vulgar sex objects in exactly the same way.

Contraception is designed for a loving couple who want to avoid pregnancy. Nothing beyond that.

Mary: Contraception is designed for anyone to use regardless of the “lovingness” or lack thereof between the couple. It can be used for a one night stand.

 

[iloveangels]

I question whether it’s worth arguing with someone who is not Catholic and is just in here saying outrageous things. I’m totally serious. Everything is not a court of law nor is it a circus. Some things aren’t worth the pixels.

People in the general culture are just on a busy-body bender. Too much TV. Too little genuine education. They mistake real life for an episode of Jerry Springer.

 

[sw85]

I question whether it’s worth arguing with someone who is not Catholic and is just in here saying outrageous things. I’m totally serious. Everything is not a court of law nor is it a circus. Some things aren’t worth the pixels.

People in the general culture are just on a busy-body bender. Too much TV. Too little genuine education. They mistake real life for an episode of Jerry Springer.

I was tempted to say something like this myself but I vaguely remember something about it being against the rules to accuse people of trolling.

 

[vera_dicere]

Well, up until about 1931 essentially ALL the other Christian denominations were against contraception. It was the Anglican’ Church’s inability to stand up to societial pressure that put us in the mess we are today.

Others have said the main points, ie. sex created by God for procreation, it needs to be inside the confines of marriage et cetera et cetera.

Contraception is a dog’s breakfast of a thing. Guttmacher’s stats show 54% of women seeking abortions were using contraception in the month they feel pregnant. That works out to about half a million children a year being killed because their parents were using contraception. That’s who is being harmed by contraception. Then there’s the blood clots, increase in cancers, et cetera for women on the pill and other chemicals. STDs are on the rise, and will continue to do so. Contraception is not 100%, increase the use of it, increase the sex acts usuing it, you increase percentage pool. Condoms have a failure rate of 50% over ten years.

Then there’s the irony of people getting pantsy about not wanting KFC becuase of all the hormones they pump into their chicken, or not wanting to take the flu vax, but they’ll take the pill, or the implant or get an IUD.

We’re not the ones trying to sell membership to the Church with half naked ladies.

It is secular society that is obcessed with sex and contraception, not us. We’re just trying to help people see a better way. The way God intended, which of course, is always better.

Poor secular society.

 

[vera_dicere]

And same as alcohol. Yet small amounts of alcohol do not cause cancer. The chance of you actually developing cancer because you took birth control is EXTREMELY small…basically a non issue. People around here like to pick and choose their science when it backs up their morality. That isn’t how science works.

We see the ethol cancers in people who drink everyday. The majority of women on the contraception pill aren’t “social pill takers” or “I only take the pill when I smoke”. They take it every gosh darn day. Grog has been around for a very long time, contraceptive chemicals about half a centurary. Its going to be in the next 20 years that we see the explosion of cancers. As an aside, I think its quite interesting that we’re seeing so much infertility now. Is it related to the anti-life ethic, holding off on kids, contraception use? My sister used the pill for about ten years, after the birth of her first child, she’s now having issues getting pregnant, and shes not even 29. Makes me wonder if she got more than swollen ankles on the pill.

The Pill, its history, the method of research behind it, its all messed up and nasty, anti-women and destructive, and for what? So people can shag like rabbits with no consequences?

In what logic is it okay to give perfectly healthy women, usually young women, a pill everyday that stops their body doing something its meant to do? This isn’t like trying to right dodgy hormones, it’d be like taking a stink load of loperamide hydrochloride daily because you don’t want to run the risk of having to take a dump in a public toilet.

 

[SanctusPeccator]

I really do think that the stance over contraception is insane. It’s only the Catholic Church who obsess over the sin of sex. I don’t think any other Christian denominations are so obsessed.

There are so many bad things happening in the world. Starvation, poverty, homelessness, war and disease to name a few. But so many Catholics are far more concerned about the consequences of using shockcontraceptionshock. I mean there are so many wrongs in the world but God just happens to be incredibly concerned by who takes contraception. How ridiculous.

My ex-boyfriend, who was Catholic, agreed with me on this. He kept pushing me to take Contraception and completely ignored the official Catholic stance on the issue.

Don’t you guys think worrying over contraception, which does nothing aside from lowering the probability of STIs and Pregnancy, is ridiculous? What real harm does contraception do to anyone? It’s utterly stupid.

Or are you going to live out your life only having sex to have children or follow NFP (which often causes unplanned pregnancy and incredible financial strain).

Having been in your shoes (metaphorically speaking), your post does evoke an ironic sense of déjà vu. While certain posters have already provided information to counteract some of the secularist misinformation over contraception, experience teaches it will likely have little immediate impact. Before one can know truth, they must first unknow falsehood. Such an “existential vivisection” is never an easy process to endure… :sad_yes:

 

[CesarAugustus]

The goodness of a thing simply is characteristic excellence. Thus a “good sandwich” is a characteristically excellent sandwich (i.e., tasty and/or nutrition), a “good dog” is a characteristically excellent dog (i.e., loyal, obedient, companionable, etc.), and a “good person” is a person who is characteristically excellent, i.e., virtuous (where “virtues” are understood as those habits of perfection that characterize the best of people – prudence, justice, temperance, fortitude, faith, hope, and charity).

So, in other words, to be a “good person” is simply to be what God made us to be. To be good is to honor the order of being which God ordained. Now it is part of human nature that he is divided into two sexes, and that these sexes exist for reproduction, hence why we call the sexual faculty the “reproductive system.” Since men have reason and free will, it follows that they are able to discern what the moral demands of his own nature and is free to act on those demands; therefore a good (i.e., characteristically excellent) man will discern the fact that he has a reproductive system which is ordered toward reproduction and will act appropriately, i.e., by using it in those manners which are appropriate to it.

(Note that my use of God above is intended to help Catholics understand the natural law. It’s not strictly speaking necessary to it. This is why natural law theology has its origins in Aristotle, who was pre-Christian).

Since, as I said, the sexual faculty is naturally ordered toward procreation, it follows that it is contrary to the natural order to use it in a contrary manner. Thus contraception, which seeks to make use of the sexual faculty while deliberately thwarting its purpose, is an evil.

Now if a thing is evil than that is harmful to the soul follows simply by definition. That’s what sin is: action contrary to one’s own good. Sin is an act of spiritual suicide, born of spiritual madness (i.e., the darkness of the intellect which elevates inferior goods above superior ones).

LauraMajestic, the part in bold is very important. Also, we are called to live saintly lives. Because of that, the concern for sins like contraception.

Blessings.