Isn't the Catholic worry over contraception slightly ridiculous?
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LauraMajestic
Guest
Are you claiming that because I’m Atheist I automatically can’t understand Christian Dogma.
Because if you are that’s a terrible and hilariously bad argument.
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LauraMajestic
Guest
Well this is why I asked you all! To figure out what you folks think.
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rorydaman
Guest
And same as alcohol. Yet small amounts of alcohol do not cause cancer. The chance of you actually developing cancer because you took birth control is EXTREMELY small…basically a non issue. People around here like to pick and choose their science when it backs up their morality. That isn’t how science works.
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Pug
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jmcrae
Guest
What contraception does do, 100% of the time, is it turns women into objects of pleasure to be used and abused by men without any particularly serious consequences. I had always thought that this sort of thing was the opposite of what the women’s liberation movement was supposed to be about - but that’s the situation that we have today - girls are pressured into using birth control so that men can use them for pleasure instead of treating them with dignity and equality.
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Pug
Guest
I spend very little of my day thinking about contraception. In fact, the only reason I think about it at all is because people ask about it here. However, I do spend actual time in the day on some days thinking about the poor, like by going shopping and putting cans in my cart to bring to them. I think that is what you mean by “worrying”, and not actual human worry, since Catholics don’t worry about contraception, they just don’t do it. I don’t do lots of things and that doesn’t take up time during my day.
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bzkoss236
Guest
Actually, the pill works in 3 stages.
- Attempts to prevent ovulation
- Attempts to prevent fertilization
- If all else fails, prevents fertilized egg from implanting (which eventually results in death of the fertilized egg)
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LauraMajestic
Guest
That’s really not true. Women may want to abuse contraception and view men as vulgar sex objects in exactly the same way.
Contraception is designed for a loving couple who want to avoid pregnancy. Nothing beyond that.
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jmcrae
Guest
And why have sex without being open to the possibility of pregnancy? It is in order to use each other for pleasure, is it not?
meltzerboy
New member
You do realize you’re taking issue with Catholic teaching on a Catholic Forum! How about the concern in (Orthodox) Judaism about eating non-kosher food: is this not more than slightly ridiculous? Either you accept these religious teachings as part of the faith or you don’t. In point of fact, though, teachings about sex and food have a basis in life that goes beyond merely superficial aspects, if you study the religious thinking involved. And, BTW, although Judaism is somewhat more lenient about contraception as well as abortion than Catholicism, and also according to reasoned arguments, I can assure you that concern about sexual matters is not limited to the latter.
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bzkoss236
Guest
Some people think they can change the opinion of a large group of people, whether or not this is actually the case, but some may be doing so without actually realizing it.
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revab1991
Guest
The word contraception is derived from the phrase “contra-conception.” This is a Latin phrase which literally means, “against life.” Such an idea should be unthinkable in the Judeo-Christian tradition. God, through Moses, instructed the chosen people to, “choose life.” Jesus taught, “I am the way, the truth and the life.” “I am the resurrection and the life.” “I came that they might have life, and have it in abundance.”
What would you and your boyfriend have done if the contraceptive you were using had failed? Perhaps the next step would have been abortion. One step leads to another. When you use something that is explicitly against life, it can lead you to taking an even more dramatic step against life.
We justify our behavior, but consider God’s plan for the gift of human sexuality, and the consequences for humanity when God’s plan is disregarded.
Interestingly, all the Reformed Churches strongly opposed contraception from the time of Luther to 1930, a span of more than 400 years. They succumbed to secular pressure. The Chair of Peter is the Rock which is not a prisoner of the moment.
What would you and your boyfriend have done if the contraceptive you were using had failed? Perhaps the next step would have been abortion. One step leads to another. When you use something that is explicitly against life, it can lead you to taking an even more dramatic step against life.
We justify our behavior, but consider God’s plan for the gift of human sexuality, and the consequences for humanity when God’s plan is disregarded.
Interestingly, all the Reformed Churches strongly opposed contraception from the time of Luther to 1930, a span of more than 400 years. They succumbed to secular pressure. The Chair of Peter is the Rock which is not a prisoner of the moment.
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rorydaman
Guest
How does birth control cause men to use women for pleasure and not treat them with dignity and equality? Also, it is as if you are suggesting that women don’t enjoy sex too.
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St_Francis
Guest
Seems the early Christians were not as confused as your source seems to think they are:
Here is a link to a Protestant source of early quotes about contraception.
Here is another article which provides evidence that some earlier allusions are to the use of contraception. Here is a quote:
History further illuminates the Church’s position on this subject. Anthropological studies show that means of contraception existed in antiquity. Medical papyri described various contraceptive methods used in China in the year 2700 BC and in Egypt in the year 1850 BC. Soranos (AD 98-139), a Greek physician from Ephesus, described seventeen medically approved methods of contraception. Also at this time, abortion and infanticide were not uncommon practices in the Roman Empire.
The early Christian community upheld the sanctity of marriage, marital love, and human life. In the New Testament, the word pharmakeia appears, which some scholars link to the birth control issue. Pharmakeia denotes the mixing of potions for secretive purposes, and from Soranos and others, evidence exists of artificial birth control potions. Interestingly, pharmakeia is oftentimes translated as “sorcery” in English. In the three passages in which pharmakeia appears, other sexual sins are also condemned: lewd conduct, impurity, licentiousness, orgies, “and the like.” (Confer Galatians 5:19-21.) This evidence highlights that the early Church condemned anything which violated the integrity of marital love.
Because the intent is still sinful, isn’t it?
Suppose I broke into my neighbor’s house to steal his tv. However, unbeknownst to me, he had stolen mine, so I ironically stole my own tv. However, my intent was still the same, the facts do not change the intent.
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fix
Guest
Tell us what you know.
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lerapt78
Guest
LauraMajestic, if I remember correctly I think you started another thread a short time ago asking what opinions we on this forum had of atheists. It looks like the thread may have been closed (I can’t find it), but I recall you saying that it would be unfair of you, as an atheist, to be condemned to hell because you are a “nice” person. Maybe you were just in a bad mood today, but if I may say so, coming on to a Catholic forum and referring to our teachings as “ridiculous”, “insane”, and “utterly stupid” might require on your part a re-evaluation of the meaning of the word “nice”.
Let’s take the problem of poverty and include within it the two other problems you’ve mentioned (starvation and homelessness), as they are both potential outcomes of the first:
Poverty is heavily linked with teenage pregnancy and out-of-wedlock births. The numbers of both, however, increased *after *the market release of the artificial birth control pill and the ready availability of condoms.
From a study on income disparity:
With regards to war: As an atheist, I’m sure you would concede that wars will always occur for as long as humans (like animals) live on a planet in which they must compete for resources. Catholics are realistic enough to understand that wars will always be fought in the interest of defense and survival, but the Catholic Church certainly condemns “unjust” wars and in fact calls daily for prayers for peace. In fact, if you were ever to attend a mass, you would be far more likely to hear calls for peace during the “Prayers for Petition” rather than prayers for the abolition of birth control.
With regards to disease: Again, another good reason Catholic teaching is against pre-marital sex and pro-monogamy. It’s pretty hard to contract herpes, chlamydia, gonorrhea, AIDS, syphilis, if one is following those two rules which, incidentally, reduces the desperate need for a condom in times of …errr…“ardent desire”. Come on. . . . .that one was too easy!
Interestingly, this article showed a glaring contradiction between the intended effects of easy-access birth control to targeted teenagers and the rate of newly acquired STDs in your own country:
The Church however, is far above such utter ridiculousness.
As another poster stated, it is actually our immoral culture, and less so the Catholics, who are obsessed with sex as a tool of pleasure in and of itself. From the movies we watch, to the magazines we read, to the music we hear, to the billboards we drive by every day, sex is preached to us non-stop from the secular pulpit. The Catholic attitude toward artificial contraception is in *response *to the obsession of those who would use it to abuse an extremely powerful drive that should rightfully be practiced with no small modicum of restraint and respect.
There’s actually a direct correlation between many of the ills you’ve described and unrestrained sexual activity which is (at least to me) so obvious that it’s surprising you haven’t considered it!
Let’s take the problem of poverty and include within it the two other problems you’ve mentioned (starvation and homelessness), as they are both potential outcomes of the first:Poverty is heavily linked with teenage pregnancy and out-of-wedlock births. The numbers of both, however, increased *after *the market release of the artificial birth control pill and the ready availability of condoms.
From a study on income disparity:
As another poster mentioned, a significant number of “unwanted” pregnancies have occurred when those engaging in sex have been using contraception, so it’s difficult to defend the notion that birth control has won this battle. What also has been mentioned are the enormous strives the Catholic Church has made to help those in poverty (feel free to peruse the efforts of Catholic Charities, Catholic Relief Services, the St. Vincent dePaul Society, etc.) to disabuse any notion you might have that Catholics in general obsess any less about this problem).
With regards to war: As an atheist, I’m sure you would concede that wars will always occur for as long as humans (like animals) live on a planet in which they must compete for resources. Catholics are realistic enough to understand that wars will always be fought in the interest of defense and survival, but the Catholic Church certainly condemns “unjust” wars and in fact calls daily for prayers for peace. In fact, if you were ever to attend a mass, you would be far more likely to hear calls for peace during the “Prayers for Petition” rather than prayers for the abolition of birth control.
With regards to disease: Again, another good reason Catholic teaching is against pre-marital sex and pro-monogamy. It’s pretty hard to contract herpes, chlamydia, gonorrhea, AIDS, syphilis, if one is following those two rules which, incidentally, reduces the desperate need for a condom in times of …errr…“ardent desire”. Come on. . . . .that one was too easy!
Interestingly, this article showed a glaring contradiction between the intended effects of easy-access birth control to targeted teenagers and the rate of newly acquired STDs in your own country:
For people who live in the moment, and who place immediate and instant gratification above consideration of the very powerful effects of sex, the Church’s stance on contraception can certainly seem terribly old-fashioned, prudish, and ridiculous. However, it is undeniable that we have seen a torrent of abortions, broken homes, failed relationships, life-altering diseases - and the subsequent theft of government resources which often has to subsidize the problems associated with these - which have ironically come about in the presence of what was supposed to be a sort of “everyone’s happy”, magic, “cure-all” pill. It seems that many, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, still think that sex is no big deal and sexual morality is nothing to be “obsessed” about.
The Church however, is far above such utter ridiculousness.
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Kelfa28
Guest
Which is not truly loving.
You are saying to your SO…I love your body but I hate your fertility. You aren’t completely loving of that person. I want pleasure and that is it. Women abuse men just as much and that is still not right. Sex is meant to be procreative.
I can’t understand why that is such a hard concept to understand. If you take the procreative aspect out of it, purposely, then you don’t love the person you are with…completely.Contraception opens the door to pre-marital sex…which leads to STDs, abortions, abandonment and an entire generation of children (multiple generations at this point) who have never known their father.
Abstinence and chastity put an end to this cycle. Men and women automatically respect each other far more when they understand that procreation is always on the table…there is always a possibility that it can occur. If you say no to this…what happens when you do get pregnant? Sex equals procreation. Contraception can fail.
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Kelfa28
Guest
Both sides are guilty in this regard. Women are as bad as men are.
Birth control means you can’t and won’t accept a pregnancy…even though sex is designed to create life.
It means you only want to use sex for pleasure and you don’t respect your partner to the fullest extent.
I know my husband loves every inch of me…because he isn’t afraid of me getting pregnant…however many times that may happen. Our sex is always guided towards procreation and we abstain to avoid a pregnancy…but still understand and accept that it’s always a possibility…regardless of what happens.
He isn’t saying to me…“I want your body…but I don’t want your fertility…I can’t accept your fertility because insert excuse line here. But I still want to feel pleasure.”
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JimG
Guest
I will only add that the documented results of the widespread use of contraception have been disastrous—for women, for men, for children, for families. Mary Eberstadt lays out the evidence in her book “Adam and Eve After the Pill.”
A review can be found here:
and here
A review can be found here:
and here
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