Israel Launches Operation Pillar of Defense against Gaza

[oldcatholicguy]

Why was there silence when it was Jewish babies in danger and having rockets fired on their homes, but now the Vatican is calling Israel “babykillers” for what’s happening in Gaza? Sounds anti-Semitic/anti-Jewish to me.

I’m going through RCIA with my teenage son, and this is an embarrassment to me as I have many Jewish friends.

Help me understand,
oneseeker2

If it was really an anti-semitic statement, whoever made it is either going to be issuing a public apology and or looking for a new job. The Holy Father has zero tolerance for it.

 

[BroomWagon]

I’d also like to see the full statement, we don’t know if it could have been spliced or put together in this way. Also, with curiosity raised, what happened here may be newsworthy in reporting what a Cardinal says but we still need to see the full-context.

 

[choliks]

To the OP, did you know that relations with the Jews is one of the Holy Father’s personal apostolates? If indeed the Cardinal did say such things, he would definitely get the boot. Unfortunately, there are people in this world who would do and say anything just to get their 15 minutes of fame and money while spitting on the face of truth. The saddest part is people believe them.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, messes with the Pope’s personal apostolate!

 

[colmywaykurtz]

Israelis are no more “babykillers” than Democratic voters in the US are—meant literally. No double entendre.

 

[The_Scott]

To the OP, did you know that relations with the Jews is one of the Holy Father’s personal apostolates? If indeed the Cardinal did say such things, he would definitely get the boot. Unfortunately, there are people in this world who would do and say anything just to get their 15 minutes of fame and money while spitting on the face of truth. The saddest part is people believe them.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, messes with the Pope’s personal apostolate!

The problem is, from every source given and researched, the Cardinal said no thing. He deplored the killing of children, saying it reminds him of the Massacre of the Innocents. That does not mean the Jews are a “baby killing” people.

That being said, if more people believe him guilty of “blood libel” (which is a huge junp in logic), then the Cardinal has a right to defend himself and elaborate on what he said.

 

[TEPO]

The quote specifically states that the new Jesus is “symbolized by the Palestinian people.” Not that hard to understand since it is spelled out directly.

oneseeker2

…So basically the author of the article ismockingboth Jesus and Catholicism as a whole on account of a completelyfabricatedissue…?

I guess anyone can be an author these days -including an idiot like me…

 

[choliks]

The problem is, from every source given and researched, the Cardinal said no thing. He deplored the killing of children, saying it reminds him of the Massacre of the Innocents. That does not mean the Jews are a “baby killing” people.

That being said, if more people believe him guilty of “blood libel” (which is a huge junp in logic), then the Cardinal has a right to defend himself and elaborate on what he said.

I was actually referring to the author/columnist what’s-his-face who took the Cardinal’s word for a ride for 15-minutes of fame and money.

 

[BroomWagon]

Cardinal Ravasi: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianfranco_Ravasi

His father was an anti-fascist tax official who served in Sicily during World War II, but later deserted the army; it took him 18 months to return to his family.

On the late Atheist, Christopher Hitchins:

“I would have liked the idea of dialoguing with him beyond the controversies and preconceived attitudes,” said Cardinal Ravasi on his blog Dec. 16.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/cardinal-ravasi-reflects-on-christopher-hitchens-life-and-death/

It also looks like Cardinal Ravasi wrote the preface of the book “Jesus of Nazareth” by the Holy Father.

amazon.com/Jesus-Nazareth-Pope-Benedict-XVI/dp/0847832716/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1353594138&sr=1-1&keywords=gianfranco+ravasi

A precursory scanning of Cardinal Ravasi’s work does not seem to indicate any predispositions as shown in the original article.

“Slaughter of innocents” can mean on both sides as people say.

Also, I suppose I can check Italian newspapers whatever they are and being able to read Spanish, similar, see if they say anything of this sort.

In fact, asca.it/news-Papa__card_Ravasi__grido__strage_innocenti__risuona_in_vittime_Gaza-1220501-POL.html

 

[BroomWagon]

Are the actual words more like this?

" I think - said the Cardinal - the cry of the mothers in the massacre of the innocents, and that ‘a cry perennial, perpetual and’ a universal cry that still resonates today."

Children die in Gaza and the cries of the mothers’ continual cry …

You see, the story is not ‘finished’, in that historical context.’’

asca.it/news-Papa__card_Ravasi__grido__strage_innocenti__risuona_in_vittime_Gaza-1220501-POL.html

We certainly did not get some of this in the cited articles the thread is based on.

Maybe there is a subtle bias here, perhaps he should have mentioned as much about the Israeli children being subjected to missiles. This would be so but at this point, info is limited still.

Also, who knows if he may have commented on such things in the past. What we do know is that at this point, the war was heating up. Seems overly dramatic to say it this way but not sure if it justifies the headlines of the OP story.

 

[The_Scott]

I was actually referring to the author/columnist what’s-his-face who took the Cardinal’s word for a ride for 15-minutes of fame and money.

My apologies. I misread you.

I agree wuth what you said, then.

 

[doormouse73]

I think Seumas Milne puts this whole conflict into the proper context with his latest article “It’s Palestinians who have the right to defend themselves” (guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/20/palestinians-have-right-defend-themselves).

All this talk of Hamas being such a “bad guy” reminded me of the inconvenient fact that the Israeli “freedom fighters” of the late 1940s used the exact same terrorist tactics to expel the British from Palestine as Hamas is now using to fight against the Israeli occupiers. It is sort of ironic. Not that it makes it right. I don’t think terrorism is ever the answer to any political problem (whether it be the IRA, the Irgun, the Stern Gang, Hamas, etc).

im going to be as charitable as i can here…

palestinians have the right to defend them selves???

what hiding behind women and children…

its like the bully who hides behind his mams frock…

if thats the case we all can defend our selves full stop.simple.

im from England,and i dont believe in what my country has done down the years to other countries and this is one of them…

there is no such a place called Palestine… in my eyes…its a made up country.

have you seen the size of Israel.and all the islamic countries want the lot…look at a map to what surrounds Israel.its not as though the jews are going to other countries and trying to take over.implementing there laws on any body…

why do people call them terrorists?they are killers of the first degree.we dont understand there way of thinking because we dont live by the same values…dont think that everybody has the same values as the west,they dont…

 

[JustaServant]

im from England,and i dont believe in what my country has done down the years to other countries and this is one of them…

there is no such a place called Palestine… in my eyes**…its a made up country.**

A country “made up” by the British empire after WW1.
Just pointing that out…

 

[Dale_M]

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is taking a lot of criticism for not invading Gaza and for agreeing to a cease-fire

“People don’t realize that Netanyahu is trigger unhappy,” said Ehud Yaari, an Israel-based fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

“He is very cautious and very restrained. You could see that this past week. He set very well-defined boundaries and was very careful not to go wild,” he added.

Opposition politicians were swift to portray this discretion as a failing, hoping that it will cost Netanyahu votes at a January 22 general election, which all opinion polls prior to the Gaza conflict had said he would win.

“The government displayed weakness and hesitancy in implementing its goals and the promise of achieving complete calm for the residents of Israel,” said Yair Lapid, a television personality-turned-politician running in the January ballot.

Israeli daily Maariv also stuck the knife in, printing a cartoon showing a glum-looking Netanyahu carrying an object under his arm marked “backbone for rent”.

reuters.com/article/2012/11/22/us-palestinians-israel-netanyahu-war-idUSBRE8AL0ID20121122

A viral photo shows 16 Israeli soldiers, laying down in such a way that their bodies spell out: "“Bibi (is a) Loser”. The Israeli military is investigating
huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/22/gaza-ceasefire-israel-photo-soldiers-bibi-is-loser_n_2175359.html
(a photo is at the link)

 

[1AugustSon7]

And America is a country “made up” by backward, traitorous colonists- who, mind you, still identified themselves as British or English even during their revolutionary war, and proudly so.

These so-called “Americans” - a people never heard of before, and who only later would identify themselves as such - were also radical, anti-government anarchists who have been accused of deliberately targeting officers on the field: this is the way savages fight wars, because no civilized country would deliberately attack the chain of command of an army, since such actions would render it impossible to control that army e.g., in the case of a cease-fire agreement. These “Americans” are, therefore, savages (or, to use the modern equivalent, terrorists).

And I, too, am being as charitable as possible- worse accusations were made against these so-called “Americans”.

im going to be as charitable as i can here…

palestinians have the right to defend them selves???

what hiding behind women and children…

its like the bully who hides behind his mams frock…

if thats the case we all can defend our selves full stop.simple.

im from England,and i dont believe in what my country has done down the years to other countries and this is one of them…

there is no such a place called Palestine… in my eyes…its a made up country.

have you seen the size of Israel.and all the islamic countries want the lot…look at a map to what surrounds Israel.its not as though the jews are going to other countries and trying to take over.implementing there laws on any body…

why do people call them terrorists?they are killers of the first degree.we dont understand there way of thinking because we dont live by the same values…dont think that everybody has the same values as the west,they dont…

 

[JustaServant]

And America is a country “made up” by backward, traitorous colonists- who, mind you, still identified themselves as British or English even during their revolutionary war, and proudly so.

These so-called “Americans” - a people never heard of before, and who only later would identify themselves as such - were also radical, anti-government anarchists who have been accused of deliberately targeting officers on the field: this is the way savages fight wars, because no civilized country would deliberately attack the chain of command of an army, since such actions would render it impossible to control that army e.g., in the case of a cease-fire agreement.

And I, too, am being as charitable as possible- worse accusations were made against these so-called “Americans”.

How about these “made up” peoples?:
Apache
Blackfeet
Cherokee
Cheyenne
Chickasaw
Chippewa
Choctaw
Comanche
Cree
Creek
Crow
Delaware
Iroquois
Kiowa
Navajo
Osage
Paiute
Seminole
Shoshone
Sioux
Ute
Yakama
Yaqui

 

[doormouse73]

How about these “made up” peoples?:
Apache
Blackfeet
Cherokee
Cheyenne
Chickasaw
Chippewa
Choctaw
Comanche
Cree
Creek
Crow
Delaware
Iroquois
Kiowa
Navajo
Osage
Paiute
Seminole
Shoshone
Sioux
Ute
Yakama
Yaqui

@ 1AugustSon7

i can see a strawman here…lol…

does the thread mention America at all?

they might be the brokers of today,but i was talking about the root of Palestine…

you are on about some thing totally different.irrelevant to this thread…

but i would give it to those Indians,they had some nuts,more than what those palestinians have.didn’t see Geronimo hiding behind his mams frock,did you?

have a look at this video,it will tell you a story of a brief history of the Arab-Israeli conflict…

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jM_ZsumdCL4&list=UUy5H0uunC2qMk0iOF4SHKUw

 

[1AugustSon7]

A straw-man? Doormouse, if you are of Western European descent, any study of the history of the French or English, for example, will yield the same result: largely foreigners who moved into or conquered a new region and later developed a unique identity.

It’s not madness, for instance, to call most Frenchmen the children of pagan, hostile barbarian German immigrants/invaders to Gaul; and the English are also a motley crew being, e.g., partly natives, partly even Roman, partly Norman (yours truly, who were themselves immigrants first to Northern France then again to England) and partly Viking. All of these peoples evolved into a unique people quite after the fact, shaped and conditioned by time, environment and circumstance - among innumerable other factors.

@ 1AugustSon7

i can see a strawman here…lol…

does the thread mention America at all?

they might be the brokers of today,but i was talking about the root of Palestine…

you are on about some thing totally different.irrelevant to this thread…

but i would give it to those Indians,they had some nuts,more than what those palestinians have.didn’t see Geronimo hiding behind his mams frock,did you?

have a look at this video,it will tell you a story of a brief history of the Arab-Israeli conflict…

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jM_ZsumdCL4&list=UUy5H0uunC2qMk0iOF4SHKUw

 

[Dale_M]

The Reuters live blog mentions Israeli tanks, armored personnel carriers, and troops are withdrawing from the staging area outside of Gaza.

 

[doormouse73]

@ 1AugustSon7

A straw-man? Doormouse, if you are of Western European descent, any study of the history of the French or English, for example, will yield the same result: largely foreigners who moved into or conquered a new region and later developed a unique identity.

and the connection to naming Palestine and creating it is???

what sort of a discription of war are you talking about,

because no civilized country would deliberately attack the chain of command of an army,

get real,the muslims believe what mohamed stated …that is war is deceit…at thats how they play it…

 

[Chrish1975]

Here is the google Translated article. Of course the Cardinal is talking about the deaths of innocents on both sides. The vatican is always for peace.

Citta ‘del Vaticano, 20 Nov - The deaths of children in Gaza during the conflict between Israel and Hamas in recent days reproduce dramatically the topicality’ of the biblical episode of the massacre of the innocents. He said the card. Gianfranco Ravasi, president of the Pontifical Council for Culture, now in the Vatican during the presentation of the third volume of the book by Pope Benedict XVI on Jesus ‘of Nazareth, dedicated to the childhood of Jesus’. ‘’ I think - said the cardinal - the cry of the mothers in the massacre of the innocents, and that ‘a cry perennial, perpetual and’ a universal cry that still resonates today.

Children die in Gaza and the cries of the mothers’ continual cry …

You see, the story is not ‘finished’, in that historical context.’’

According to the card. Ravasi, the book should not be reduced to a Christmas present:’’ ‘Cause there’s a child - he said - is not to say that it is sentimental rhetoric; wrap up this book and these pages in the paper for Christmas gifts, with the stars … No, ‘a book, the pages of the Gospels are for adults, adults in the faith.’’ According Ravasi,’’ This book has quell’autoreferenzialita ‘oracular esoteric pages that have certain theological or philosophical unreadable. Benedict XVI has put into practice what an important philosopher of language in the last century said, but he never put into practice all that you can ‘say, you can’ make it clear.’’