Israel Launches Operation Pillar of Defense against Gaza

[1AugustSon7]

How do you think my ancestors -the Normans- came to completely and utterly dominate all of England, instituting by far the most absolutist monarchy in all of Christendom for hundreds of years? Do you think the then natives of England asked us to come over and lord over them with absolute impunity?

During the Norman conquest of England, the Pope threatened William the Conqueror with excommunication, sternly reminding him (a Catholic) that the people he was relentlessly -and all too often mercilessly- subjugating were Christians: the Pope did not mean it would have been okay had they not been Christians, rather, he was making an appeal to William’s religious sentiments. It seems to have worked- either the threat or the appeal or, more likely, a combination of both.

As for the semantics of the name of a place: we don’t call it Gaul anymore: we call it France; nor do we call Turkey, “Asia Minor,” etc. We do, however, speak of a place called Palestine and a place called Israel, though the two overlap and are frequently interchangeable.

@ 1AugustSon7

and the connection to naming Palestine and creating it is???

what sort of a discription of war are you talking about,

get real,the muslims believe what mohamed stated …that is war is deceit…at thats how they play it…

The Palestinians are a people and Palestine is a country, land or territory: you are making war on common sense and convention, which itself bears witness to the reality. The dangers of depriving a people of the status of a people results in their having practically no rights under the law: this, at least, has absolutely nothing to do with Mohammad or even Islam, for that matter.

 

[doormouse73]

@ 1AugustSon7

The dangers of depriving a people of the status of a people results in their having practically no rights under the law: this, at least, has absolutely nothing to do with Mohammad or even Islam, for that matter.

is that so,then why is their an entrenched praise and honour of the german nazis inbred in the palestinians?

read this then ask me what you have just said…

cojs.org/cojswiki/The_Mufti_of_Jerusalem_and_Yasser_Arafat

 

[JustaServant]

@ 1AugustSon7
i can see a strawman here…lol…
does the thread mention America at all?
they might be the brokers of today,but i was talking about the root of Palestine…
you are on about some thing totally different.irrelevant to this thread…

Connection?
You obviously missed the point.

Palestinians: Displaced peoples.
Native Americans: Displaced peoples.
Palestinians: Resistance to being displaced called terrorism.
Native Americans: Resistance to being displaced called war (thier acts would be considered terrorism using today’s vocabulary.
Palestinians: Called savages.
Native Americans: Called savages.
Palestinians: Herded into Gaza.
Native Americans: Herded into “reservations”.

Now, unless people wake up to the black/white, good guy/bad guy mentality that feeds into war. There will continue to be war.
Because it can produce nothing else.

 

[oneseeker2]

I agree with most of what the posters have already pointed out about this “news article”.

It is full of quotes that are quite possibly taken out of context in order to make the author’s bomb-throwing point. OP, it’s odd that you accuse others of “refusing to do their research”, yet you believe a biased article that has an agenda, yet does not contain any sourcing at all. I just spent 30 minutes trying to find the source documentation for any of his quotes, so that I could determine whether or not the author presented the context correctly, and all I can get is what The_Scott said:

The headline itself is false - it doesn’t even follow from the quotes given:

Even if the line as quoted was said (“I think of the ‘massacre of the innocents’. Children are dying in Gaza, their mothers’ shouts is a perennial cry, a universal cry”), that does not equal = "Israel is Baby-Killer”. No legitimate journalist would ever put that in quotes from that comment. That quote was apparently never said. It requires a leap to make the conclusion that it means that, a leap which we are unable to make because your author did not bother to cite the source speech. My guess would be that’s because he’s taking it out of context, in order to further his obvious agenda.

Also, one cardinal speaking his opinion does not equal “The Vatican”. Once you’ve been around the Church for awhile, you will see this false attribution done all the time: many people with agendas will grab one statement from one cardinal and scream from the rooftops: “this is what the Vatican believes!!!”. Eventually you will learn that the author is usually trying to make a point (The Overall Church Believes X) which simply does not logically follow from the facts.

Slow down and wait for the necessary rest of the story to get filled in before you come to such momentous conclusions about the Church. Once we can see the full text of the Cardinal’s actual comments, then we can discuss what it means and if it’s anything to be concerned about on a larger scale. It’s not hard for me to predict that, once we see all of the data, the author’s agenda will be exposed for what it is.

I apologize for sounding snarky about the research bit. It just started to feel like I was being jumped on for asking a sincere question. In rereading the article, it does seem as though certain words were put into the cardinal’s mouth. Probably in part b/c of his phraseology. However, it still bothers me that nothing was said about Jewish babies all these years, and suddenly Palestinian babies dying gets all the attention.

oneseeker2

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

im going to be as charitable as i can here…

palestinians have the right to defend them selves???

what hiding behind women and children…

its like the bully who hides behind his mams frock…

if thats the case we all can defend our selves full stop.simple.

im from England,and i dont believe in what my country has done down the years to other countries and this is one of them…

there is no such a place called Palestine… in my eyes…its a made up country.

have you seen the size of Israel.and all the islamic countries want the lot…look at a map to what surrounds Israel.its not as though the jews are going to other countries and trying to take over.implementing there laws on any body…

why do people call them terrorists?they are killers of the first degree.we dont understand there way of thinking because we dont live by the same values…dont think that everybody has the same values as the west,they dont…

Are you seriously saying people evicted from their land and forced into ghetto who then try to defend themselves are hiding behind their mother’s skirt?

The Greeks (such as Herodotus) called the region Palaistine and the Romans had the province of Syra Palaestina, the Byzantines called it Palaestina, later it was the British Mandate of Palestine.

The Palestinians hate the Israelis because the Israelis stole the Palestinians’ land.

 

[oneseeker2]

Are you seriously saying people evicted from their land and forced into ghetto who then try to defend themselves are hiding behind their mother’s skirt?

The Greeks (such as Herodotus) called the region Palaistine and the Romans had the province of Syra Palaestina, the Byzantines called it Palaestina, later it was the British Mandate of Palestine.

The Palestinians hate the Israelis because the Israelis stole the Palestinians’ land.

Actually, the Israelis didn’t steal it, it was given to them by the UN after WWII. I feel badly for what the Palestinians go through on a daily basis, but let’s be honest.

oneseeker2

 

[Robert_Sock]

news.yahoo.com/gaza-truce-holds-region-steps-back-brink-141315941.html

The Egyptian-mediated cease-fire is still in effect; Hamas calls the truce a victory, while reaction in Israel is mixed.

 

[JustaServant]

Actually, the Israelis didn’t steal it, it was given to them by the UN after WWII. I feel badly for what the Palestinians go through on a daily basis, but let’s be honest.

oneseeker2

Let me try to illustrate this for you.
You live on a farm inherited from your father, who in turn recieved it from his father going back several generations. It’s your land. You work the soil, plow the fields, plant the crops, ect. It’s yours. The house you live in was built by your grandfather. Your wife and children live there, your mother, your in-laws, a brother. This property belongs to you.
Then one day a group of soldiers show up, and announce this land now belongs to THEM. You have 48 hours to vacate. Your brother, always the hothead, objects. He’s gunned downed in front of your small children. You have no choice. You don’t want to see your children fatherless and your wife a widow. You leave. Generations of work is now bulldozed. Your grandfather’s house torn down. Everything you hold dear and believe in is now ripped from you.
Your new “home” is a run-down building without proper water or heat. You’re worried about your old ailing mother. You have to get a job, so you accept a lower paying job that barely pays the rent on the house. Your children’s, and possibly your grandchildren’s, future is now within this system.You are now a second-class citizen in your own country.
You watch the same thing happen to your neighbors. Herded into a strip of land where your new landlords “count your calories”. You watch in horror as your neighbors are driven to violence over this. You fear every day your children walk out of the run-down house you live in.
Fear they will walk into a suicide bomb or a missle from the new owners of the land. You now grow used to the bomb-out rubble that was once your neighborhood.

How do think you would feel in this man’s shoes?

 

[Dale_M]

Israel arrests Hamas, Islamic Jihad cell behind Tel Aviv bus bomb

Israeli security forces apprehended the suspected perpetrators of a bombing attack on a Tel Aviv bus, it was revealed after a gag order was lifted on Thursday, with Shin Bet and police saying that the attack was planned and orchestrated by operatives identified with Islamic Jihad and Hamas.

On Thursday, security sources said they apprehended the operatives responsible for the attack, and that they were apprehended in an extensive arrest operation on Wednesday.

According to the sources, operatives linked to Hamas and Islamic Jihad admitted in their interrogation to preparing the bomb used in the attack, as well as to choosing the target of the attack and purchasing the cell phone used to remotely detonate the device.

haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-arrests-hamas-islamic-jihad-cell-behind-tel-aviv-bus-bomb-1.479958

The arrested persons all either live in, or had lived in, the West Bank town of Beit Lakiya, The former resident of Beit Lakiya was now an Israeli citizen and this allowed him access to commit the crime.

 

[oneseeker2]

Let me try to illustrate this for you.
You live on a farm inherited from your father, who in turn recieved it from his father going back several generations. It’s your land. You work the soil, plow the fields, plant the crops, ect. It’s yours. The house you live in was built by your grandfather. Your wife and children live there, your mother, your in-laws, a brother. This property belongs to you.
Then one day a group of soldiers show up, and announce this land now belongs to THEM. You have 48 hours to vacate. Your brother, always the hothead, objects. He’s gunned downed in front of your small children. You have no choice. You don’t want to see your children fatherless and your wife a widow. You leave. Generations of work is now bulldozed. Your grandfather’s house torn down. Everything you hold dear and believe in is now ripped from you.
Your new “home” is a run-down building without proper water or heat. You’re worried about your old ailing mother. You have to get a job, so you accept a lower paying job that barely pays the rent on the house. Your children’s, and possibly your grandchildren’s, future is now within this system.You are now a second-class citizen in your own country.
You watch the same thing happen to your neighbors. Herded into a strip of land where your new landlords “count your calories”. You watch in horror as your neighbors are driven to violence over this. You fear every day your children walk out of the run-down house you live in.
Fear they will walk into a suicide bomb or a missle from the new owners of the land. You now grow used to the bomb-out rubble that was once your neighborhood.

How do think you would feel in this man’s shoes?

Let me illustrate this for you.
You ask an honest question on a forum dedicated to the church you love
You get people jumping all over you
These same people ignore what you say or twist it for their own agenda
Now tell me, how would you feel in MY shoes?

oneseeker2

p.s. fyi, if you read my post carefully, I said I feel badly for what the Palestinians go through on a daily basis. My historical point was that the UN made the decision to give the land to the Jews. The Jews didn’t just walk in and take it away.

 

[JustaServant]

p.s. fyi, if you read my post carefully, I said I feel badly for what the Palestinians go through on a daily basis. My historical point was that the UN made the decision to give the land to the Jews. The Jews didn’t just walk in and take it away.

What I have described is simply how the Jews felt when the Nazis took over, how Native Americans felt when Europeans took over, how the Irish felt when the British took over, and how the Africans felt when the white man showed up.
The last time I checked the Catholic Church champions the poor and the oppressed, not the conqueror.

 

[Faithdancer]

The silly names for these “operations” always bemuse me. Why not call them all “Operation Kill Some Fellow Human Beings” and skip the euphemisms? They could even have an international numbering system, like, OKSFHB I, OKSFHB II, etc. It would be easier for the archivists.

 

[JustaServant]

The silly names for these “operations” always bemuse me. Why not call them all “Operation Kill Some Fellow Human Beings” and skip the euphemisms? They could even have an international numbering system, like, OKSFHB I, OKSFHB II, etc. It would be easier for the archivists.

Because it makes war sound “fun”, like a Hollywood movie with Sylvester Stallone and Bruce Willis. With “good guys” and “bad guys”.
The reality is far different.

 

[Faithdancer]

Because it makes war sound “fun”, like a Hollywood movie with Sylvester Stallone and Bruce Willis. With “good guys” and “bad guys”.
The reality is far different.

Exactly. It reminds me of 9 year old boys and the "clubs’ they make with cool sounding, “warrior” names.Hey, there’s a thought. Let’s have a contest for our next military adventure, where the 9-year-olds can compete to name the “operation.”

 

[doormouse73]

What I have described is simply how the Jews felt when the Nazis took over, how Native Americans felt when Europeans took over, how the Irish felt when the British took over, and how the Africans felt when the white man showed up.
The last time I checked the Catholic Church champions the poor and the oppressed, not the conqueror.

im sorry if ive got this wrong,but…
i was under the impression that you was saying that the jews were out of order for taking their land back,im i right in saying this…?

if so the jews are like the Irish/native Americans ect…

big troubles in croati/serbia aswell eh?

 

[JustaServant]

im sorry if ive got this wrong,but…
i was under the impression that you was saying that the jews were out of order for taking their land back,im i right in saying this…?

if so the jews are like the Irish/native Americans ect…

big troubles in croati/serbia aswell eh?

Sorry I don’t buy into the Christian Zionist “theology” of people like John “where have all the doughnuts gone?” Hagee.
Modern Israelis (to be distinquished from Jews) did not take the land “back”. It was stolen from people who were living there for generations prior. Being once oppressed does not excuse one for currently oppressing.

 

[JustaServant]

 

[Dale_M]

Much attention was given to Israel’s anti-missile defense, Iron Dome. The Israeli military claimed 88% effectiveness in shooting down missiles which posed a threat to population centers.

However, Iron Dome is designed to intercept short range threats, those launched within 50 miles of their targets. An effective missile defense program needs to integrate three different levels of threats: short-range, medium-range and long-range. Israel is currently developing a medium range anti-missile defense called David’s Sling, and has a long-range defense called Arrow.

The recent conflict with Gaza provided a thorough test of the short-range program, and both US and Israel are expected to study events to look for ways to improve functioning. It is expected that Iran will also be studying the results, to see why their missiles failed to penetrate the Iron Dome defense and to find ways of evading it in the future.
nytimes.com/2012/11/23/world/middleeast/for-israel-gaza-conflict-a-practice-run-for-a-possible-iran-confrontation.html?ref=global-home

 

[Dale_M]

NB: This incident took place at the 1000 foot buffer area surrounding the Gaza territory. Israel has declared the buffer zone to be off-limits to Palestinians.

Israeli Troops Said to Kill Palestinian, Testing Cease-Fire

Health officials said on Friday that a 20-year-old Palestinian was killed and nine others wounded in a clash with Israeli soldiers in the southeast Gaza Strip, testing the cease-fire between Hamas and Israel after wild celebrations here on Thursday.

Maan, the Palestinian news agency, reported that a group of Palestinians went to Abassan, a border area east of the southern town of Khan Younis, on Friday to pray on their land, and ended up throwing stones at soldiers, who responded with gunfire. Ashraf al-Qedra, a spokesman for the Health Ministry, identified the man who was killed as Ahmad Qudih.

It remained unclear whether Hamas would depict the incident as a violation of the still uncertain cease-fire.

Capt. Eytan Buchman, a spokesman for the Israeli military, said that about 300 Palestinians were demonstrating at various points along the border fence, prompting Israeli soldiers to fire warning shots in the air. Then some demonstrators “tried to damage the fence and cross into Israel,” Captain Buchman said. “When that happened, the forces fired at their feet.”

nytimes.com/2012/11/24/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-conflict.html?ref=global-home

 

[JustaServant]

NB: This incident took place at the 1000 foot buffer area surrounding the Gaza territory.

And it’s not an open-air concentration camp?