Israel Launches Operation Pillar of Defense against Gaza

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Here’s the statement by the US State Department:

We strongly condemn the barrage of rocket fire from Gaza into southern Israel, and we regret the death and injury of innocent Israeli and Palestinian civilians caused by the ensuing violence. There is no justification for the violence that Hamas and other terrorist organizations are employing against the people of Israel. We call on those responsible to stop these cowardly acts immediately. We support Israel’s right to defend itself, and we encourage Israel to continue to take every effort to avoid civilian casualties.

Hamas claims to have the best interests of the Palestinian people at heart, yet it continues to engage in violence that is counterproductive to the Palestinian cause. Attacking Israel on a near daily basis does nothing to help Palestinians in Gaza or to move the Palestinian people any closer to achieving self determination.

state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2012/11/200551.htm
 
brumano said:
When and by whom was this launch site built? no doubt it was during the Mubarack years if it isn’t a fake in the first place. If it was it was with the knowledge of the UN just like all the launch sites in Israel are supposed to be, how are you trying to justify a flagrant violation of international and humanitarian laws that is verivied of an airstrike assasination that kills innocent bystanders and dares the arab world to strike back?
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I personally don’t see other Arab nations going to war against Israel over Hamas
 
Holly3278 said:
Thank you Bezant. You expressed what I was trying to say but couldn’t just right. I am afraid of tensions spilling over. I just worry that with the Syrian conflict going on and I have heard that tensions in Lebanon are high as well, it just worries me. Plus with Iran being so close to getting a nuclear weapon I don’t have much optimism about the situation in the Middle East.
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You’re quite welcome ;). In this sort of environment, perhaps my greatest concerns are accidents and escalating events. While I do not exactly feel optimistic I still think there is potential in the changes in the Middle East – my hope is that that potential is propelled in the right direction.
 
gilliam said:
From the IDF: Aerial photo: Long-range rocket launch site in Zeitoun neighborhood, meters away from mosque & playgroun pic.twitter.com/xes7g5hF
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This really is astonishing footage. Makes one wonder, by the way, just how the Israelis knew this particular man would be in this particular car on this particular journey. Possibly there are Mossad spies sufficient to gather this information. But one also has to wonder about up-and-coming Hamas hopefuls who didn’t see enough room for them at the top. And the location of the underground missile locations?

Maybe drones and spy satellite images can have results as exact as this, but one wonders more than a little.
 
Canada joins US and UK in declaring support for Israel’s Gaza attack
 
gilliam said:
How many civilians live in Gaza and within missile range of Hamas missiles?
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It is on the Russia Today news station, now. One young father with a dead baby in his arms totally wrapped in a sheet, crying his eyes out. A young toddler seen being carried to an ambulance. So far, they’re saying 10 civilians dead, 3 of which children. It looks like total mayhem.
 
pepipop said:
It is on the Russia Today news station, now. One young father with a dead baby in his arms totally wrapped in a sheet, crying his eyes out. A young toddler seen being carried to an ambulance. So far, they’re saying 10 civilians dead, 3 of which children. It looks like total mayhem.
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Sorry, I wouldn’t trust anything coming from rt.com

Total count from credible sources seems to be 7 to 9 people total in Gaza dead, that includes militants and that head of the Gaza military and those in his car. They are hardly civilians. Undoubtedly others will be killed, but I don’t think watching a site known to bend the news is a good way to spend the time trying to find out what is happening in Gaza.
 
gilliam said:
Sorry, I wouldn’t trust anything coming from rt.com

Total count from credible sources seems to be 7 to 9 people total in Gaza dead, that includes militants and that head of the Gaza military and those in his car. They are hardly civilians. Undoubtedly others will be killed, but I don’t think watching a site known to bend the news is a good way to spend the time trying to find out what is happening in Gaza.
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It’s actually a TV channel over here, and is listed with all the other news stations, BBC, CNN, etc… I’ve noticed two comments now that it is not a reliable source, I assumed it was genuine as it is one of our TV channels. However, in saying that - the footage ‘seemed’ live and real, they also interviewed an Israeli women from the IDF, who stated that they had asked for it as they had been bombing Israel for several weeks. She was told children and civilians had been killed and answered that Hamas set themselves up within local communities - more or less it could not be helped.
 
pepipop said:
It’s actually a TV channel over here, and is listed with all the other news stations, BBC, CNN, etc… I’ve noticed two comments now that it is not a reliable source, I assumed it was genuine as it is one of our TV channels. However, in saying that - the footage ‘seemed’ live and real, they also interviewed an Israeli women from the IDF, who stated that they had asked for it as they had been bombing Israel for several weeks. She was told children and civilians had been killed and answered that Hamas set themselves up within local communities - more or less it could not be helped.
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Stick with BBC, CNN, etc. Like I said undoubtedly some civilians have been killed and more will be killed (maybe on both sides, 1 million Israelies are in range of Gaza missiles) but stick with the main stream media on this one.
 
pepipop said:
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/9679207/Israel-has-opened-the-gates-of-hell-Hamas-warning-as-leader-is-killed-in-strike.html

*As many as 20 air strikes were reported; in Zaitoun in the East, Rafah by the Egyptian border and Tal Alhawa in the centre. Palestinian media claimed that up to nine people, including two children, had been killed. One child was reported to be the 11-month-old son of a BBC employee. *
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Israel is targeting military targets, mostly missile sites. Many missile sites in Gaza are in highly populated areas. Hamas likes it that way. They think it provides protection so they can lob missiles at Israeli civilian targes (usually schools and shopping centers) at will.

Son was of a BBC sub-contractor, but it is still sad. That is why they call it war. Hamas was aiming for schools today (as they did last month and the month before), didn’t hit any that I know of today, maybe because Israel stopped the missiles, maybe because of bad aim.

9 “people” is the important word in your report from the Telegraph. Note they didn’t call them “civilians” and note they are saying the source is the “Palestinian media.” But 9 is what I heard. That includes the Hamas militants killed today.

Anyway, the UN security council will be meeting in 1 hour to discuss what is going on in Gaza.
 
Looks like I was wrong. Hamas was able to hit a shopping center today. From the IDF:

Rocket fired from Gaza hits shopping center in major southern Israeli city.

also

Since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, Hamas has fired more than 8,000 rockets into Israel. Over one million Israelis are currently living under threat of rocket attacks

idfblog.com/facts-figures/rocket-attacks-toward-israel/
 
gilliam said:
Stick with BBC, CNN, etc. Like I said undoubtedly some civilians have been killed and more will be killed (maybe on both sides, 1 million Israelies are in range of Gaza missiles) but stick with the main stream media on this one.
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BBC, The Beeb is celebrating a 90 year anniversary of broadcast transmissions. It’s one of these days right now, bbc.com, maybe they say, heard this on the way home as a news story, I use to listen to them on short wave.

They have good coverage but people say that maybe they have a slant portraying the Mid East.

Congradulations to them though, they must have been crucial in WWII, other times!:tiphat:

telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/9678203/BBC-crisis-At-90-Auntie-will-have-to-change-her-ways.html
 
gilliam said:
I personally don’t see other Arab nations going to war against Israel over Hamas
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I don’t either. But if they were going to do such a thing as go to war against Israel, it would be through Hamas, not on behalf of them. Giving funding, supplies, etc to a terrorist group and letting them fight is easier and less risky than overt action. The Middle East is the world capital of surrogate wars.
 
A news update
In Israel, police officials said three people died on Thursday when a rocket fired from Gaza slammed into a building in the southern town of Kiryat Malachi to the north of Gaza in the most intense exchange since the three-week Israeli incursion in the winter of 2008-2009.
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Dozens of rockets and airstrikes were reported on Thursday, underscoring a threat on Wednesday from the Israel Defense Forces of a possible ground invasion of Gaza. That has prompted the Israeli military to shift infantry brigades and call up some specialist reserves.
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The Palestinian dead included six civilians, including a one-month-old baby, a seven-year-old girl and a 20-year-old woman, Palestinian officials said. Typically, the Israeli airstrikes target open spaces that militant groups use to fire rockets from or store weapons. They also hit training sites and security posts, causing damage and injuries to residents of nearby houses.
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The Health Ministry in Gaza said at least 70 Palestinians were wounded, including 15 children and 18 women.
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nytimes.com/2012/11/16/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-assault.html?ref=global-home&_r=0
 
Some background information
Until recently, Hamas has mostly adhered to a wobbly cease-fire with Israel. But smaller, allied militant groups, such as Islamic Jihad, have continued to launch rockets into southern Israel, and Israel has long maintained that as the ruling power in Gaza, Hamas is responsible for all attacks emanating from its territory. Hamas, facing increasing internal challenges from other militant factions and hard-liners, has itself recently asserted responsibility for several rocket assaults.
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Israeli military officials say Hamas has spent the past two years strengthening its arsenal with help from Iran, a key sponsor, and with Libyan weapons smuggled in through underground tunnels at the Egyptian border.
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“Hamas felt that they got enough power to stand face to face with Israel,” Maj. Gen. Dan Harel, a former Israeli deputy military chief of staff, told reporters in a conference call.
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washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/hamas-leader-in-gaza-killed-by-israeli-strike/2012/11/14/de2ea690-2e72-11e2-9ac2-1c61452669c3_story_1.html

The conflict may also underscore Israeli unhappiness with the UN considering a bid by the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority, which rules the West Bank, to upgrade the Palestinians’ status at the U.N. General Assembly to a non-member state. Israel has reportedly told its ambassadors to warn nations that it may cancel the 1993 Oslo peace accords. Those accords have been the foundation of Israel-Palestinian relations for the past 20 years.
 
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