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Ridgerunner
Guest
It is indeed despicable to cause the death of a child in order to make a “poster” of him for propaganda purposes. How little these Hamas murderers care for human life to do a thing like that.
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gnjsdad
Guest
It is an absolute fact that some people make this assertion.
Actual events are disproving this. The West Bank is erupting in protest…not against Hamas; against Israel. Is it your belief that the Palestinians are so irrational, that they are protesting against the purported protectors of their children (the IDF) and not against their real enemies (Hamas)? If any of this were true, the Palestinians in Gaza would be helping the IDF against Hamas. Anyone paying the slightest bit of attention can see how absurd that notion is.
I’ll say once again that Israel is losing badly here. And the Netanyahu government doesn’t seem to have the first clue and no amount of “hasbara” can change that.
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josie_L
Guest
Western powers supported the Muslim Brotherhood to fight off the Soviets in Afghanistan, so it’s not like it was Al Qaeda as we know it now, i.e., Al Qaeda is a splinter group of the Muslim Brotherhood who fought in Afghanistan (the Mujahadeen). Moreover, the situation in Syria was all around horrible, i.e., you had Assad on the one hand, who was killing his own civilians, and on the other moderates (fighting for democracy) and radicals (fighting for an Islamic state), it’s not like the U.S. purposely or intentionally was trying to support ISIS, but regardless, it was not a very smart move on the U.S. government’s part.
And I support Israel because HAMAS is a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Fworld%2F2014%2F07%2F24%2Fegypt-opposes-hamas-gaza-conflict%2F13043353%2F&ei=ox3SU8nvO9SkyAT3m4GIAg&usg=AFQjCNFfmeXJaJ130v4LrLyLE8ecVSVj6w&bvm=bv.71667212,d.b2U
“We are not going to support you going forward or have sympathy for you unless you get rid of the Hamas gang, which puts you in conflict with the world, Israel and the Egyptians,” Adel Nouman wrote in an opinion piece for daily newspaper El Watan. “This is the stance of the Egyptian people.”
Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who went from General to elected President this past spring, refused to speak with Hamas leaders in the Kerry organized peace effort Thursday. He insists in speaking only to Palestine leaders. US has no ties with Hamas.
Further…
“We will not accept any initiative that does not end the blockade on our people and that does not show respect to their sacrifices,” Mr. Meshaal said. “Everyone wants us to accept a cease fire and then negotiate for our rights. We reject this.”
This was rejected with Hamas involved last night, but with Hamas gone Israel said it would end the blockade, one more chance at cease fire this morning.
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQqQIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fkerry-in-jerusalem-for-talks-to-end-israel-hamas-fighting-1406121531&ei=dh_SU-DpC-np8AGW5oDgDQ&usg=AFQjCNFt3WJvyo1jS929gpM9CioFa7HxeQ
“We are not going to support you going forward or have sympathy for you unless you get rid of the Hamas gang, which puts you in conflict with the world, Israel and the Egyptians,” Adel Nouman wrote in an opinion piece for daily newspaper El Watan. “This is the stance of the Egyptian people.”
Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who went from General to elected President this past spring, refused to speak with Hamas leaders in the Kerry organized peace effort Thursday. He insists in speaking only to Palestine leaders. US has no ties with Hamas.
Further…
“We will not accept any initiative that does not end the blockade on our people and that does not show respect to their sacrifices,” Mr. Meshaal said. “Everyone wants us to accept a cease fire and then negotiate for our rights. We reject this.”
This was rejected with Hamas involved last night, but with Hamas gone Israel said it would end the blockade, one more chance at cease fire this morning.
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQqQIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fkerry-in-jerusalem-for-talks-to-end-israel-hamas-fighting-1406121531&ei=dh_SU-DpC-np8AGW5oDgDQ&usg=AFQjCNFt3WJvyo1jS929gpM9CioFa7HxeQ
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow.
(CCC 2264).
Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility (CCC 2265).
That kind.
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josie_L
Guest
And this is what I’ve been saying all along, you want the Palestinians to have freedom and peace, GET RID OF HAMAS!!!
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Coatimundi
Guest
This sounds reasonable, but how might it be done? Why does Hamas control Gaza?
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MugenOne
Guest
There will never be peace in the Middle East because of the U.S. geographicism foreign policies. I have met a lot of the Gulf Arabs and they are basically telling me the same thing.
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grotto
Guest
Supporting Israel to completely wipe out Hammas is my choice. Long overdue - as evidenced by the enemy tunnels loaded with weapons and terrorists. If the Palestine people had any sense they would have supported themselves through legitimate civilized country building but instead choose the age-old hatred and jealousy route that causes them to sit in ruin. I do not buy it that they cannot throw out such self inflicting death believers. They want to keep them more than their own children. A pox on the mothers - they need to rise against those wielding the death against themselves - finally! Stay firm Israel - finish the job!
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Coatimundi
Guest
Okay, I need to admit to being clueless. I have unfamiliar with the term “geographicism,” and Googling the word didn’t help, either.
What does it mean, specifically in the context you mention?
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estesbob
Guest
It means supporting Israel.Once the US quits supporting Israel it becomes easier to eliminate the Jews.The Arab view is that peace can be obtained only when there are no Jews in the middle eastOkay, I need to admit to being clueless. I have unfamiliar with the term “geographicism,” and Googling the word didn’t help, either.
What does it mean, specifically in the context you mention?
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jeannetherese
Guest
Here’s a scholarly paper that addresses a few of the issues raised , including your question. I’ve posted a link to the article and synopsis of content below.
May God bless us all.
jt
homepage.univie.ac.at/herbert.preiss/files/Turner_Building_Democracy_in_Palestine_Liberal_Peace_Theory_Hamas.pdf
From
Downloaded By: [University College Dublin] At: 15:03 10 May 2007
Building Democracy in Palestine: Liberal Peace
Theory and the Election of Hamas
MANDY TURNER
The victory of Hamas, a proscribed terrorist organisation, in the January 2006 elections for
the Palestinian Authority, was greeted with dismay by the international community, which
responded by cutting off aid. This article seeks to understand why Hamas was elected, as
well as the international community’s response, through an analysis of the liberal peace
thesis. This thesis states that democracies do not go to war with one another, thus it
was thought that building a democratic Palestinian state would buttress the peace
process. The Palestinian people have, however, elected an organization that rejects the
peace process. This has provided a wake-up call for the US to face up to the fact that
promoting democratization may not always produce the results it desires. The US sees
the election of Hamas as the cause of the current crisis and the main obstacle to peace.
This article, however, argues that this is merely a symptom, not the cause, of the crisis.
The Palestinian Authority’s lack of sovereignty and its complete dependence on Israel
put severe limitations on the building of a viable, democratic state. The article concludes
that the US’s uncompromising response to Hamas could well undermine democracy
promotion in the region.
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Path_Finder
Guest
Hamas seems to have been spawned from the Muslim Brotherhood. Some people claim they both have a connection to the 3rd Reich and that is why they are so radical.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
I don’t know about the Hitler connection but the MB itself has only been around a short time. Extreme element of Islam, the footage from Egypt with their past conflict was the most vicious I seen televised in some time. And the frenzy in Iran today won’t help imho.
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailystar.com.lb%2FNews%2FMiddle-East%2F2014%2FJul-25%2F265109-iran-rallies-for-gaza-rouhani-slams-world-silence.ashx&ei=p3vSU4y8F4X8oATlg4CgAg&usg=AFQjCNE2BJZn1InYuVwF8ha-dxiTnrXYrw
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQqQIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailystar.com.lb%2FNews%2FMiddle-East%2F2014%2FJul-25%2F265109-iran-rallies-for-gaza-rouhani-slams-world-silence.ashx&ei=p3vSU4y8F4X8oATlg4CgAg&usg=AFQjCNE2BJZn1InYuVwF8ha-dxiTnrXYrw
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I was told the following by a Palestinian who was a very central figure in negotiating the abortive peace agreement brokered by Clinton. I won’t mention his name, but he was in the news photos when the “deal” was announced. It was a complex agreement which included very major funding from the U.S. and Saudi Arabia to build high-end tourist facilities in Gaza, which has some really good beaches. Israel was to provide the knowhow and infrastructure, including power and water. Fatah was to provide the “muscle” to guard the tourists and the facilities. Unfortunately, Arafat stole the money and started the Intifada to cover the theft. Gazans were enraged by that and rejected Fatah politically, embracing its rival, Hamas.
Hamas, which is sort of 80% islamist and 100% “mafia”, has ruled ever since, because it controls the money, the commerce and the guns in Gaza.
Fatah eventually did recover some of the money from Arafat’s widow after Arafat’s death. It is presently invested in the U.S.
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Path_Finder
Guest
Muslim Brotherhood was established in 1928 if that constitutes a short time.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood
It’s interesting that they fit into the wiki subcategory of Middle Eastern Collaborators with Nazi Germany: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Middle_Eastern_collaborators_with_Nazi_Germany
However, this is clearly an item to study.
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_thaddeus
Guest
Perhaps I shouldn’t post this; but here are some additional talking points. Mainly pro Palestinian but also pro the current government in Israel.
After all, it is a propaganda war.(with a bit of collateral damage) No “list”. Please.
“The more the dead, the better”: Israel’s crumbling media war :
salon.com/2014/07/23/%E2%80%9Cthe_more_the_dead_the_better%E2%80%9D_israel%E2%80%99s_crumbling_media_war/
“Israeli propaganda has hit a new low. While the world was still trying to come to terms with the mass deaths in Shejaiya, Benjamin Netanyahu went on CNN to state that Hamas uses the “telegenically dead” to further “their cause.” He added that for Hamas: “The more the dead, the better.” Even while Netanyahu followed the propaganda script, which is to first show sympathy and express remorse, by reducing dead Palestinians to a photo-op he showed how his own mind works.”
There is a standard script for how to deal with Palestinian casualties. After Israel killed four boys on the Gaza beach on July 16, the U.S. establishment media fell in line behind Israel’s PR framework: acknowledge the tragedy but blame Hamas. This is exactly what Israeli spokesperson Mark Regev said on Channel 4 News when grilled by the anchor Jon Snow. It is also how the U.S. State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki responded, using the same word-for-word talking points.
In response “The Intercept” firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/21/netanyahus-telegenically-dead-comment-original/
The Salon article has a link to the “The Israel Project’s 2009 Global Language Dictionary” mondoweiss.net/2009/07/no-it-isnt-the-pentagon-papers-but-heres-a-small-sign-that-the-msm-is-finally-going-to-take-on-the-b.html
Many of its talking points have been used here but there are a whole lot more that can prove the point in a “way more better way”.
To some (including yours truly) it seems that Darby and LaHaye have conquered the USofA.(and parts of its associated territories)
It is so disheartening. Perhaps someone could start a poll asking what body count would satiate the parties involved.
After all, it is a propaganda war.(with a bit of collateral damage) No “list”. Please.
“The more the dead, the better”: Israel’s crumbling media war :
salon.com/2014/07/23/%E2%80%9Cthe_more_the_dead_the_better%E2%80%9D_israel%E2%80%99s_crumbling_media_war/
“Israeli propaganda has hit a new low. While the world was still trying to come to terms with the mass deaths in Shejaiya, Benjamin Netanyahu went on CNN to state that Hamas uses the “telegenically dead” to further “their cause.” He added that for Hamas: “The more the dead, the better.” Even while Netanyahu followed the propaganda script, which is to first show sympathy and express remorse, by reducing dead Palestinians to a photo-op he showed how his own mind works.”
There is a standard script for how to deal with Palestinian casualties. After Israel killed four boys on the Gaza beach on July 16, the U.S. establishment media fell in line behind Israel’s PR framework: acknowledge the tragedy but blame Hamas. This is exactly what Israeli spokesperson Mark Regev said on Channel 4 News when grilled by the anchor Jon Snow. It is also how the U.S. State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki responded, using the same word-for-word talking points.
This framework, developed in 2009, can be found in The Israel Project’s 2009 Global Language Dictionary. The Orwellian manual provides a detailed outline on how to “communicate effectively in support of Israel.” " …
In response “The Intercept” firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/21/netanyahus-telegenically-dead-comment-original/
published a comparison between “Benjamin Netanyahu, yesterday, on CNN, addressing worldwide sympathy for the civilian victims of Israeli violence in Gaza:” and “Joseph Goebbels, November 16, 1941, essay in Das Reich, addressing Germany sympathy for German Jews forced to wear yellow stars:” This is perhaps hurtful but should be understood.
The Salon article has a link to the “The Israel Project’s 2009 Global Language Dictionary” mondoweiss.net/2009/07/no-it-isnt-the-pentagon-papers-but-heres-a-small-sign-that-the-msm-is-finally-going-to-take-on-the-b.htmlMany of its talking points have been used here but there are a whole lot more that can prove the point in a “way more better way”.
To some (including yours truly) it seems that Darby and LaHaye have conquered the USofA.(and parts of its associated territories)
It is so disheartening. Perhaps someone could start a poll asking what body count would satiate the parties involved.
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Darryl1958
Guest
For Hamas, there is no hope of winning an actual military offensive. They provoke only, and place photogenic victims in harms way of the inevitable response. They will provoke until they get a response, and that is why a response is inevitable.
They want to see more Palestinians in body bags, because that is sure to inflame the passions of the world, or at least the world with a free press willing to be a part of their propaganda machine. With negative reactions against Israel, what cannot be won in the military field becomes possible through the world itself taking action against Israel, making the Jewish state into the same Jewish pariah that Jews have played for millennia now.
When the world becomes as indifferent to Palestinian deaths as the Palestinian leadership is, then peace itself might become possible.
In the meantime, Palestinians can keep deluding themselves that more and more photogenic war dead among their children is actually a good thing.
They want to see more Palestinians in body bags, because that is sure to inflame the passions of the world, or at least the world with a free press willing to be a part of their propaganda machine. With negative reactions against Israel, what cannot be won in the military field becomes possible through the world itself taking action against Israel, making the Jewish state into the same Jewish pariah that Jews have played for millennia now.
When the world becomes as indifferent to Palestinian deaths as the Palestinian leadership is, then peace itself might become possible.
In the meantime, Palestinians can keep deluding themselves that more and more photogenic war dead among their children is actually a good thing.
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Coatimundi
Guest
Who are Darby and LaHaye?
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