Israel 'ready for escalation' of Gaza conflict

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Following up on what St Francis said, Israel sends fliers and often also calls locations prior to targeting of that location. If people do not evacuate those locations within that time frame, casualties are almost inevitable. Hamas, as the leading political organization, is NOT evacuating it’s own citizens despite explicit warnings from Israel. They then take pictures of children who were injured or killed to be used as propaganda against Israel. And Hamas has violated yet another ceasefire.

No one supporting Israel is supporting the murder of Palestinian civilians. Israel is not targeting Palestinian civilians. They are targeting terrorist weapon caches, and those terrorists have placed civilians in those locations to maximize casualties.

Hamas, on the other hand, is targeting Israeli population centers, which contain Israeli and Palestinians, Jews, Christians, Muslims, and children. Should any of Israel’s defensive precautions fail, even more civilians will be killed. Israel wants an assurance of peace. Hamas wants to kill as many people as possible.
 
Kurisu35712 said:
Following up on what St Francis said, Israel sends fliers and often also calls locations prior to targeting of that location.** If people do not evacuate those locations within that time frame, casualties are almost inevitable. Hamas, as the leading political organization, is NOT evacuating it’s own citizens despite explicit warnings from Israel. They then take pictures of children who were injured or killed to be used as propaganda against Israel. And Hamas has violated yet another ceasefire.**

No one supporting Israel is supporting the murder of Palestinian civilians. Israel is not targeting Palestinian civilians. They are targeting terrorist weapon caches, and those terrorists have placed civilians in those locations to maximize casualties.

Hamas, on the other hand, is targeting Israeli population centers, which contain Israeli and Palestinians, Jews, Christians, Muslims, and children. Should any of Israel’s defensive precautions fail, even more civilians will be killed. Israel wants an assurance of peace. Hamas wants to kill as many people as possible.
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Absolutely!!!
 
St_Francis said:
Video of Palestinian woman whose son was just saved in an Israeli hospital

“All of us, from the youngest infant to the oldest, all of us will sacrifice ourselves for Jerusalem,” which she had earlier claimed was “all” for the Moslems.
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I saw the video, and here is my problem with you posting it:

This woman is an extremist. And by posting it, you are stereotyping the Palestinian people. All of “those people” are the same, aren’t they?

You think there aren’t any extremist Israelis? What if I were to post a video of such an individual? What would that prove?

I could also find a video of Palestinian—or an Israeli—who completely believes in non-violence. Or a married Isreali-Palestinian couple? But what would that prove? One person doesn’t constitute the opinion of a people.

They have a word for that: overgeneralization. Or stereotyping. Or other words.
 
Kurisu35712 said:
Following up on what St Francis said, Israel sends fliers and often also calls locations prior to targeting of that location. If people do not evacuate those locations within that time frame, casualties are almost inevitable. Hamas, as the leading political organization, is NOT evacuating it’s own citizens despite explicit warnings from Israel. They then take pictures of children who were injured or killed to be used as propaganda against Israel. And Hamas has violated yet another ceasefire.

No one supporting Israel is supporting the murder of Palestinian civilians. Israel is not targeting Palestinian civilians. They are targeting terrorist weapon caches, and those terrorists have placed civilians in those locations to maximize casualties.

Hamas, on the other hand, is targeting Israeli population centers, which contain Israeli and Palestinians, Jews, Christians, Muslims, and children. Should any of Israel’s defensive precautions fail, even more civilians will be killed. Israel wants an assurance of peace. Hamas wants to kill as many people as possible.
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The human shield argument is not proved. And even the UN has determined that in many cases, there were instances where they were no weapons in the schools, mosques and hospitals. Here’s my source: salon.com/2014/07/28/debunking_the_myths_about_gaza_the_truth_behind_israeli_and_palestinian_talking_points/

Besides, since they now have the ability to shoot down virtually all of the rockets, such a disproportionate response isn’t necessary.

I am anti-Hamas, but also anti-Netanyahu. Both are extremist. Hamas is terrorist, but the Israelis are no saints either. No matter what Israel does, there will also be defenders, so they feel entitled to act with impunity.

I have provided a link above. But will you read it with an open mind? Will you read it at all?
 
TheAdvocate said:
The human shield argument is not proved. And even the UN has determined that in many cases, there were instances where they were no weapons in the schools, mosques and hospitals. Here’s my source: salon.com/2014/07/28/debunking_the_myths_about_gaza_the_truth_behind_israeli_and_palestinian_talking_points/
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Yes. Many people here are asserting without proof or evidence that there were weapons in the hospitals and schools and UN facilities where children were sleeping. They don’t want to admit that Israel has been targeting sleeping children. I can see why Israel would deny this, but that is not what the UN has found.
closeronline.co.uk/2014/07/israel-gaza-conflict-un-condemns-israel-for-targeting-sleeping-children-in-pre-dawn-attack#.U9vz35V0y1s
 
Tomdstone said:
If the news reports are correct, Israel has launched attacks on children sleeping in a UN safety zone and on children in hospitals and on children playing on the beach. There are reports of more than 1000 casualties on the Palestinian side. My personal opinion is that if Israel wants to wage war, it would be well advised to target soldiers and other fighting personnel in Gaza and to avoid targeting and killing sleeping children in hospitals or in UN facilities. I don’t see where sleeping children pose a threat to anyone and why Israelis believe that children must be targeted and killed.
news.yahoo.com/un-rights-chief-slams-israels-defiance-international-law-143824163.html;_ylt=A0SO806iSttTziEANRNXNyoA
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I thought you didn’t trust western media. :eek:
 
Tomdstone said:
Yes. Many people here are asserting without proof or evidence that there were weapons in the hospitals and schools and UN facilities where children were sleeping. They don’t want to admit that Israel has been targeting sleeping children. I can see why Israel would deny this, but that is not what the UN has found.
closeronline.co.uk/2014/07/israel-gaza-conflict-un-condemns-israel-for-targeting-sleeping-children-in-pre-dawn-attack#.U9vz35V0y1s
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If it can be proven by an impartial, honest, reliable source that Israel is intentionally targeting sleeping children, I will be the first to condemn the Israeli government for such despicable behavior. What would be the rationale on the part of Israel for doing so (to prevent the children from growing up to become terrorists?), or do you believe Israel is so evil in its hatred of the Arab people?
 
meltzerboy said:
If it can be proven by an impartial, honest, reliable source that Israel is intentionally targeting sleeping children, I will be the first to condemn the Israeli government for such despicable behavior. What would be the rationale on the part of Israel for doing so (to prevent the children from growing up to become terrorists?), or do you believe Israel is so evil in its hatred of the Arab people?
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In my personal opinion, Israel has been careless in its strikes and has not taken sufficient care to avoid needless civilian casualties.
 
meltzerboy said:
If it can be proven by an impartial, honest, reliable source that Israel is intentionally targeting sleeping children, I will be the first to condemn the Israeli government for such despicable behavior. What would be the rationale on the part of Israel for doing so (to prevent the children from growing up to become terrorists?), or do you believe Israel is so evil in its hatred of the Arab people?
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  1. Israel has claimed to only target those residences/buildings from which rockets are launched.
  2. Israel has high-accurancy missiles.
  3. The U.N. has provided Israel with the coordinates of the UN school 17 times.
  4. The school got bombed anyway.
We also can’t prove without a shadow of doubt that it was pro-Russian separatists who shot down the civilian plane. But it’s not difficult to connect the dots.

And yes, the Israelis view Palestinian children as future combatants. I can’t prove they’re killing them on purpose, but unfortunately, due to the deterioration of the situation, and the sheer hatred, I’m afraid I don’t rule it out.
 
TheAdvocate said:
  1. Israel has claimed to only target those residences/buildings from which rockets are launched.
  2. Israel has high-accurancy missiles.
  3. The U.N. has provided Israel with the coordinates of the UN school 17 times.
  4. The school got bombed anyway.
We also can’t prove without a shadow of doubt that it was pro-Russian separatists who shot down the civilian plane. But it’s not difficult to connect the dots.

And yes, the Israelis view Palestinian children as future combatants. I can’t prove they’re killing them on purpose, but unfortunately, due to the deterioration of the situation, and the sheer hatred, I’m afraid I don’t rule it out.
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Is Hamas targeting military or civilian targets?
 
Tomdstone said:
There is confirmation from non-western media:
shiitenews.com/index.php/world/10783-nbc-news-pulls-veteran-reporter-from-gaza-after-reporting-israeli-killing-of-kids
shiitenews.com/index.php/palestine/10827-israeli-rabbi-says-killing-civilians-in-gaza-is-allowed
rt.com/in-vision/israel-gaza-strike-rubble/
And see the links in post #690 and 691.
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There isn’t any mention of sleeping children being targeted in the non-western articles you posted, thus you’re relying solely on a western media source, and that’s quite at odds with your mistrust of western media.
Originally Posted by latin_rite
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I think all the lies and misrepresentations printed/aired by western media let alone their habit of turning a blind eye to any wrong doings of the Kiev junta proves otherwise.
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And your response to this post was a resounding “yes”.
 
josie_L said:
There isn’t any mention of sleeping children being targeted in the non-western articles you posted, thus you’re relying solely on a western media source, and that’s quite at odds with your mistrust of western media.
.
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UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon condemned the attack on a UN school in Gaza that killed at least 16 children, saying:** “Nothing is more shameful than attacking sleeping children.** I condemn this attack in the strongest possible terms.”
closeronline.co.uk/2014/07/israel-gaza-conflict-un-condemns-israel-for-targeting-sleeping-children-in-pre-dawn-attack#.U9v9spV0y1t
This was also reported in the NYTimes.
And please see: Journalist breaks down over children’s deaths in Gaza
closeronline.co.uk/2014/07/emotional-journalist-breaks-down-over-children-s-death-during-shocking-live-gaza-report#.U9v-pZV0y1t
 
Tomdstone said:
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon condemned the attack on a UN school in Gaza that killed at least 16 children, saying:** “Nothing is more shameful than attacking sleeping children.** I condemn this attack in the strongest possible terms.”
closeronline.co.uk/2014/07/israel-gaza-conflict-un-condemns-israel-for-targeting-sleeping-children-in-pre-dawn-attack#.U9v9spV0y1t
This was also reported in the NYTimes.
And please see: Journalist breaks down over children’s deaths in Gaza
closeronline.co.uk/2014/07/emotional-journalist-breaks-down-over-children-s-death-during-shocking-live-gaza-report#.U9v-pZV0y1t
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You are still using western media sources even though you’ve proclaimed they are not reliable.
 
josie_L said:
You are still using western media sources even though you’ve proclaimed they are not reliable.
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Even if it’s true that he is contradicting himself, I imagine it’s true that you trust Western media sources. The bottom line is, he backed himself up with a source that you find reliable. I am a subscriber of the New York Times, I pay monthly.

Here is that source:

nytimes.com/2014/07/31/world/middleeast/un-says-evidence-points-to-israel-in-gaza-school-attack.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0

A brief excerpt:
*Nothing is more shameful than attacking sleeping children,” the secretary general told reporters in San Jose, Costa Rica, according to a transcript provided by his office. It was Mr. Ban’s strongest comments to date on attacks on United Nations installations in Gaza, where Palestinians have been taking shelter. Six United Nations staff members have been killed in the current conflict so far.

United Nations officials said that they had informed Israel 17 times of the precise location of the school and that there were civilians sheltering there, including once at 8:50 p.m., just hours before the attack on Wednesday.
*

Do you trust this source? If so, he’s made his point. Let’s get back on topic. Let’s not get side-tracked–or perhaps we can move to spelling errors next?
 
St_Francis said:
Here is a link to an Israeli article. I post it because it contains video footage of Hamas firing from school grounds and from a cemetery.
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I don’t doubt that some members of Hamas do this. But that doesn’t prove that Hamas forced children to stay there. Furthermore, I condemn Hamas’s tactics of shooting missiles into Israel at all. But on the other hand, Israel has the means to shoot down those missiles with their high-tech iron dome. Therefore, responding disproportionately isn’t necessary. Especially when hundreds of women, children and the elderly die, thousands are injured and maimed, and hundreds of thousands displaced.

Just curious…do you EVER look at sources that report the Palestinian point of view? Or have you already made up your mind first, then everything you read is only that which supports your point of view?
 
TheAdvocate said:
I don’t doubt that some members of Hamas do this. But that doesn’t prove that Hamas forced children to stay there. Furthermore, I condemn Hamas’s tactics of shooting missiles into Israel at all. But on the other hand, Israel has the means to shoot down those missiles with their high-tech iron dome. Therefore, responding disproportionately isn’t necessary. Especially when hundreds of women, children and the elderly die, thousands are injured and maimed, and hundreds of thousands displaced.
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Deapite your great rudeness to me in your last post, I am responding. Israel takes great care to protect its civilians, building bomb shelters and the Iron Dome. So, should they just let Hamas fire rockets at their population and “catch” them with the Iron Dome? The Iron Dome is not 100% perfect, and each unit operates in only one direction, so if Hamas were to fire at the same target from two different places, the ID would “catch” only those from one direction.

i find it highly ironic that Israel is criticized because of the disparity in number of victims when the reason the disparity exists is that Israel protects its civilians and Hamas is at best completely indifferent to their fate.
Just curious…do you EVER look at sources that report the Palestinian point of view? Or have you already made up your mind first, then then everything you read is only that which supports your point of view?
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Do you ever look at sources which report the Israeli point of view?

I have been studying this issue off and on since the early 1980s when I studied poli sci (including courses on the Middle East and international law) in college. ETA: To clarify, yes, I have read many sources which report the Palestinian point of view; in fact, before the internet, it was sometimes difficult to find anything but.

And one if the main conclusions i have come to is that the Palestinian people are indoctrinated and brainwashed, and whether that takes or not, then used by their leadership in collusion with outside forces.
 
St_Francis said:
Deapite your great rudeness to me in your last post, I am responding. Israel takes great care to protect its civilians, building bomb shelters and the Iron Dome. So, should they just let Hamas fire rockets at their population and “catch” them with the Iron Dome? The Iron Dome is not 100% perfect, and each unit operates in only one direction, so if Hamas were to fire at the same target from two different places, the ID would “catch” only those from one direction.

i find it highly ironic that Israel is criticized because of the disparity in number of victims when the reason the disparity exists is that Israel protects its civilians and Hamas is at best completely indifferent to their fate.

Do you ever look at sources which report the Israeli point of view?

I have been studying this issue off and on since the early 1980s when I studied poli sci (including courses on the Middle East and international law) in college. ETA: To clarify, yes, I have read many sources which report the Palestinian point of view; in fact, before the internet, it was sometimes difficult to find anything but.

And one if the main conclusions i have come to is that the Palestinian people are indoctrinated and brainwashed, and whether that takes or not, then used by their leadership in collusion with outside forces.
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First the range of those rockets are 6-12miles at best and are far from accurate. When they hit its impact is about the same as a grenade. Deadly yes but it’s not going to topple a house without concecutive hits.

Second the Hamas stand point doesn’t the people of palaistne make. Killing civilians to get at the Hamas only breeds more extremists
 
Locations hit or targeted by rockets fired from Gaza since July 6

nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/13/world/middleeast/the-growing-reach-of-hamas-rockets.html?_r=0

Story is from July 13th and shows different Hamas rocket strikes.

Some hits are over 50 miles away. One hit was 70 miles away.

Fadjr-5 rockets have a range of 45 miles and a payload of up to 175kg. (and yes, it can destroy a building)

Hamas also used the Syrian-made M-302 this year. The M302 rockets have a range of between 90 to 160 kilometers and a payload of up to 170kg. (and yes, it also can destroy a building)
 
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