H
haljoseph
Guest
The faithful will never lose hope…more importantly, never lose sight of our final destination: The Kingdom that awaits all those who love Him
Let us not loose hope…
- Status
G
graciew
Guest
:clapping:
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
I just asked a simple question, I don’t remember asking you pledge to the US flag. Its Catholic first then Nationality. Perhaps a dilemma in Russia today.
.
I wasn’t asking you to accept a number. I was merely stating a fact, all who died Hamas reports as civilians. Fact is that’s not true as repetitively reported.
Thats how most people think I would imagine, including with Russia.
.
I wasn’t asking you to accept a number. I was merely stating a fact, all who died Hamas reports as civilians. Fact is that’s not true as repetitively reported.
Thats how most people think I would imagine, including with Russia.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Right, so a percentage of militants died that were terrorists not civilians as reported. and you don’t know the percent admittedly. Then do you want to speculate on the large percent?
So we can conclude now they were not all civilians as the Hamas terrorist propaganda reported. That was the point.
So we can conclude now they were not all civilians as the Hamas terrorist propaganda reported. That was the point.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
What in the world are you talking about? Hamas reported all civilian deaths. The only contention is insistence in arguing.
T
TheAdvocate
Guest
Gary, do ascribe any blame to the Israeli side of this conflict, either in the immediate battle or in the long-standing struggle? Even an ounce? And if so, what?
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
None, there is no excuse for the wanton killing of civilians by Hamas and on either side which they are responsible for. They are blood thirsty foaming at the mouth terrorists and thats really all there is to it. They are no better than Isis or the rest of the butchers in Africa, Iran and elsewhere. I fact I think they should surrender an accept immediate exile to save the further slaughter of civilians. But they won’t, they will continue killing in Allahs name and insist on the extermination program of Jews and Christians and Muslims, just like Isis.
Is there a grey area which concerns you?
T
TheAdvocate
Guest
Thank you, Gary, for your honest and firm response.
You have answered part A of the question, namely, does Israel bear any blame for the immediate crisis.
What is your position concerning part B, namely:
“Do you ascribe any blame to the Israelis in the broader conflict between the two parties, and if so, what?”
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Are you saying the broader conflict mitigates this barbaric display of civilian slaughter by Hamas? No, no, no, unacceptable. The broader conflict is contingent on Hamas diplomacy, which as I am hearing they have none, and are firing rockets at civilians now, again. Is there a grey area you desired to discuss, you “didn’t” answer that?
T
TheAdvocate
Guest
Yes, there are grey areas I wish to discuss—and I have been discussing them in close to 20 posts on this thread. It’s plain to see what those are if you refer to them. Based on your responses so far, it seems you have been.
I just want to be clear about your stance on the question, part B: so in your mind, in* terms of the broader conflict and problems that exist*, 100% of the blame is attributable to the Palestinians, while since 1948, Israel get 0%.
Is this your position?
T
trdchubi
Guest
Here they go again. Israeli military: Rockets fired from Gaza violate cease-fire and when Israel retaliates the world condemns them for it.Second day of peace and quiet.I only see two options with the border and demilitarized thinking though. Hope someone is willing to compromise because neither option is what Hamas seeks.
For the record the hamas braves (cowards) started it again.
C
Coatimundi
Guest
According to the CNN article, Hamas denied firing the rockets. Israeli newspapers are reporting that the military wing of the Popular Resistance Committees, the al-Nasser Salah al-Din Brigades, has claimed credit.
At any rate, more rockets have been fired at additional cities. Israel has resumed airstrikes on Gaza and has recalled its negotiators who were in Egypt to work out a longer ceasefire.
timesofisrael.com/day-32-hamas-warns-that-without-deal-on-harbor-itll-resume-attacks-friday/
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Great but for three consecutive posts not a word about this illusive grey area.
You wish to disuss and have been discussing but in three posts you discussed nothing. Conversations are “two-way” missing is your end.
Whats plain to see is the same question was asked 3X and you have done nothing but backpedal.
This is specualtion and makes no sense. It seems to me you have nothing to say. Apparent by three posts consecutive.
Yet you refuse to be clear about anything and somehow think I was suppose to catch your exact point from another 20 posts your unclear about. How foolish and unclear is that?
Listen to me, I’m really sorry you can’t or refuse to comprehend. I see no desire by you to communicate. There’s “no” conversation but a circular one for three posts. Whats lacking is your end. So in your mind, what going on?
My position is exactly as I stated and repetitively.
That Hamas cannot be civil, human and compassionate enough to allow food and water and basic needs to these innocent people? Where do you get the idea that during a agreed upon ceasefire anyone can threaten to bomb, then bomb by targeting civilians, and want to discuss peace and humanitarian aid, borders and so forth?
They just had the opportunity to talk for days even a week till the aid reached the civilians or it became clear no agreement is reached. Its called negotiation in the civil world. Not, I’m mad and taking people hostage till I get my way, and bombing you. Thats crime-hostage, extortion, not negotiation. Hamas doesn’t have that leverage and what they do have is fading, especially if that aid doesn’t reach these people. They are contradicting themselves now and further placing the hostages as risk.
Thats my position, did I say something different than the last post? No I didn’t.
1948 has nothing to do with the path Hamas chose today. And repetitively now I have told you this. Negotiation by hostage is not negotiation, its crime.
Can you clearly articulate your point or not? If you can’t “clearly” I will understand. Now how about a clear response on how this ceasefire and fundamental inability to keep peace for three days relates to 1948. Clearly tell me that.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fvideo%2Fnews%2Fvideo-1111046%2FAngry-Israeli-spokesman-condemns-Hamas-resuming-rocket-fire.html%3FITO%3D1490%26ns_mchannel%3Drss%26ns_campaign%3D1490&ei=DafkU-HBFcP78QH86IG4BQ&usg=AFQjCNGjlQ4QXRIG-bn9_SMX2uxk8rb0Lw&bvm=bv.72676100,d.b2U
The pattern of rewarding terrorists bad behavior is unacceptable.
G
grotto
Guest
Feathers should be included in the tar and brush! “Blame” is a word containing an intent to cause an action. Hamas is to be blamed for this ruin, not Israel. Repeating a question is not stating a truth.
T
TheAdvocate
Guest
I present to you a document produced by the UN in 2009 that details the many ways in which Israeli government committed crimes against the Palestinians since 1948: discrimination, illegal settlements, denying building permits, demolishment of Palestinian settlements, and using Palestinians as human shields.Great but for three consecutive posts not a word about this illusive grey area.
You wish to disuss and have been discussing but in three posts you discussed nothing. Conversations are “two-way” missing is your end.
Whats plain to see is the same question was asked 3X and you have done nothing but backpedal.
This is specualtion and makes no sense. It seems to me you have nothing to say. Apparent by three posts consecutive.
Yet you refuse to be clear about anything and somehow think I was suppose to catch your exact point from another 20 posts your unclear about. How foolish and unclear is that?
Listen to me, I’m really sorry you can’t or refuse to comprehend. I see no desire by you to communicate. There’s “no” conversation but a circular one for three posts. Whats lacking is your end. So in your mind, what going on?
My position is exactly as I stated and repetitively.
That Hamas cannot be civil, human and compassionate enough to allow food and water and basic needs to these innocent people? Where do you get the idea that during a agreed upon ceasefire anyone can threaten to bomb, then bomb by targeting civilians, and want to discuss peace and humanitarian aid, borders and so forth?
They just had the opportunity to talk for days even a week till the aid reached the civilians or it became clear no agreement is reached. Its called negotiation in the civil world. Not, I’m mad and taking people hostage till I get my way, and bombing you. Thats crime-hostage, extortion, not negotiation. Hamas doesn’t have that leverage and what they do have is fading, especially if that aid doesn’t reach these people. They are contradicting themselves now and further placing the hostages as risk.
Thats my position, did I say something different than the last post? No I didn’t.
1948 has nothing to do with the path Hamas chose today. And repetitively now I have told you this. Negotiation by hostage is not negotiation, its crime.
Can you clearly articulate your point or not? If you can’t “clearly” I will understand. Now how about a clear response on how this ceasefire and fundamental inability to keep peace for three days relates to 1948. Clearly tell me that.
www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48.pdf
All I was hoping you would admit is that throughout their bad blood together since 1948, Israel has not been a saint throughout this either. It is my conviction that their own actions contributed to—and cemented—much of the hatred that exists today. Of course, the Palestinians who have been stubborn and violent all along. But Israel can’t hold its head high either when it comes to moral authority. That’s my point.
G
graciew
Guest
Israeli and Palestinian positions as well as demands seem to be clear.
Their non negotiable ,namely security , human basiic needs as well and their values or beliefs too at least to.a certain extent.
There are already international voices for the present conflict to stop for humanitarian resons( this is common ground as I see it in this discussion) and international need for terrorism to stop.( which is also common ground in this discussion.as I see it).
As far as when it should stop , there are voices that seem to choose one over the other in this discussion.understanding that the choice of one over the other does not mean that the chlice to exted it is non humamitarian but may envision a different perspective
What is/ could be the worst case scenario for Israel if the
present conflict( narrow scope ,present war) continues and what is/ could be the worst case scenario for Palestine if the present war continues as the tendency seems to be right now?
What interest if any is there for this conflict to xi
Continue as an external factor,from a broader scope ,( namely international , national , private , organizational , etc) ?
As you see it.
I do not have an answer.
Thank you.
Their non negotiable ,namely security , human basiic needs as well and their values or beliefs too at least to.a certain extent.
There are already international voices for the present conflict to stop for humanitarian resons( this is common ground as I see it in this discussion) and international need for terrorism to stop.( which is also common ground in this discussion.as I see it).
As far as when it should stop , there are voices that seem to choose one over the other in this discussion.understanding that the choice of one over the other does not mean that the chlice to exted it is non humamitarian but may envision a different perspective
What is/ could be the worst case scenario for Israel if the
present conflict( narrow scope ,present war) continues and what is/ could be the worst case scenario for Palestine if the present war continues as the tendency seems to be right now?
What interest if any is there for this conflict to xi
Continue as an external factor,from a broader scope ,( namely international , national , private , organizational , etc) ?
As you see it.
I do not have an answer.
Thank you.
G
graciew
Guest
I skipped a line when I edited.
Is the international community addressing any external factor through evidence or facts for the sake of peace?
Is the international community addressing any external factor through evidence or facts for the sake of peace?
T
Tomdstone
Guest
I am not sure about that. Didn’t Israel steal the land belonging to the Palestinians in 1948 and 1967? Why is it OK for Israel to steal the land belonging to the Palestinians and to keep them in an enslaved condition in Gaza? Isn’t stealing wrong and against the 10 Commandments?
- Status