Issues with "the Rapture"

[BOMC]

Thanks for the reply. I see some strawmen though in this and other posts, like “it was never taught for hundreds of years” and “it is not secret.” They have no bearing on the doctrine itself.

Again, can we get some answers:

1. Does God punish the wicked?
2. Does God deliver the righteous?

Thanks.

 

[CWBetts]

Thanks for the reply. I see some strawmen though in this and other posts, like “it was never taught for hundreds of years” and “it is not secret.” They have no bearing on the doctrine itself.

Again, can we get some answers:

1. Does God punish the wicked?
2. Does God deliver the righteous?

Thanks.

How about this argument: It can’t be found anyhwere in Sacred Scripture or Sacred Tradition. For the record the fact that no one taught it for 1800 years is not a straw man. It was an invention. Period.

 

[Orthodox1047]

Thanks for the reply. I see some strawmen though in this and other posts, like “it was never taught for hundreds of years” and “it is not secret.” They have no bearing on the doctrine itself.

Again, can we get some answers:

1. Does God punish the wicked? Of Course…
2. Does God deliver the righteous? Yes - His Divine Mercy welcomes repentant sinners.

Thanks.

No “strawmen” here.

The “Rapture” as being discussed in this forum and as held by Hal Lindsay etc. is a misreading of the event where “one was taken and the other left…” The fact is that we have yet to experience the promised time of peace and the Great Apostacy. As far as missing out on sufferings, this concept opposes Christ’s teaching about picking up our cross and following Him.

 

[BOMC]

…the fact that no one taught it for 1800 years is not a straw man. It was an invention. Period.

No, but it does fulfill the prophecy of Daniel that it will not be talked of until the end time. I guess we are in the end times.

 

[kinja]

Tolkien was a catholic and Lewis might as well have been even though he was high church anglican. He has one of the best explanations on the necessity of purgatory I’ve eve read.
Lewis grew up in Northern Ireland hence a reluctance to jump the pond.
As far as the initial game don’t forget GB Shaw and i took a class on 20th century ethics in college mostly Brits and there was enough intials to require a whole box of alpha bits! The exception to the rule Oscar Wilde and Lady Wilde his mom but they were Irish by the grace of God.:irish3::shamrock2: I think it’s because Brittish kids get saddled with names like Clive Rupert, Cuthbert, Wilberforce, Clayborne, Leslie and Evelyne and these are the guys. There’s also Hermoine for the girls but, I digress.

I think we sometimes fail to remember that although these two men were christian writers, the literary work they did fuelled interest in the occult. Tolkien in particular had an influence on fantasy literature as the lord of the rings was the forefather of most epic fantasy novels like Terry Brookes - the sword of shannara.

As christians we sometimes find ourselves clinging to and elevating any other christian we see who has been successful in the world, especially when the world is so much against christianity. We need to remember though where and to whom our true loyalty must lie . . . God and His Word by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 5:11 says: “…and do not take part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them” We need to keep this in mind and draw no middle ground for the devil to take a foothold.

 

[BOMC]

No “strawmen” here.

The fact is that we have yet to experience the promised time of peace and the Great Apostacy.

Strawman again. Stop reading things into the rapture, or was this thread about Hal’s take on it?

 

[CWBetts]

No, but it does fulfill the prophecy of Daniel that it will not be talked of until the end time. I guess we are in the end times.

The idea that we will be somehow “rescued” from the tribulation, and then Jeus comes back again for a third coming, or more, is heretical, that cannot be backed by Scripture or Tradition. It is only backed by the rantings of Darby.

 

[BOMC]

The idea that we will be somehow “rescued” from the tribulation, and then Jeus comes back again for a third coming, or more, is heretical, that cannot be backed by Scripture or Tradition. It is only backed by the rantings of Darby.

More strawmen:

• rescued from the tribulation
• Jesus coming three times

Can’t a person ask a simple question and get some simple answers without all these strawmen being thrown in the mix?

p.s. Are you going to acknowledge the Daniel refute?

 

[Orthodox1047]

BOMC

I’m having a hard time understanding the point you are trying to make.

If you are claiming that there is a rapture, and Hal Lindsay is right in his interpretation say so clearly.

If not what is all this “strawmen” about?

Again, here are two books you may want to read, one refuting the the “Secret Rapture” of the righteous with proper Biblical sources and understanding [The Rapture Trap by Paul Thigpen] the other about Catholic interpretation based on Bible and Tradition of a possible meaning [The Miracle of the Illumination of All Consciences by Thomas W. Petrisko]

 

[Orthodox1047]

More strawmen:

• rescued from the tribulation
• Jesus coming three times

Can’t a person ask a simple question and get some simple answers without all these strawmen being thrown in the mix?

You can ask all the questions you want but it seems that you won’t accept any answers.

For the two above: There is no tribulation rescue
Jesus does not come three times.

 

[CWBetts]

More strawmen:

• rescued from the tribulation
• Jesus coming three times

Not at all. This false dactrine says that Jesus will come to rescue the faithful form the trubulation, then Jesus will come again at Judgement. Apologetics mean to defend. So defend. This was invented in the early 1800’s by Darby. Prove that wrong. It is the faithful that will be “left” as with Noah, as with Lot. Who was left? Who was destroyed?

 

[BOMC]

I’m having a hard time understanding the point you are trying to make…

You assume I am trying to make a point, but all I have asked is two questions.

 

[Orthodox1047]

You assume I am trying to make a point, but all I have asked is two questions.

As CWBetts says: Apologetics is defending (your point). You state: Strawmen - then give me the Bible verse to prove what it is you are saying (your point).

 

[BOMC]

You can ask all the questions you want but it seems that you won’t accept any answers…

Not at all. This false dactrine says that Jesus will come to rescue the faithful form the trubulation,

Anyone here believe in the literal accounts of the fate of Sodom or Jericho? Just trying to find out whether you believe in the punishing of the wicked, or deliverance of the righteous.

Thanks.

 

[CWBetts]

Anyone here believe believe in the literal accounts of the fate of Sodom or Jericho? Just trying to find out whether you believe in the punishing of the wicked, or deliverance of the righteous.

Thanks.

God does sometimes deliver the righteous. But you still have not defended a single criticism of the Rapture. I am beginning to think that your definition of a “strawman” is somethign you are eiter unwilling or unable to defend.

 

[Orthodox1047]

Anyone here believe believe in the literal accounts of the fate of Sodom or Jericho? Just trying to find out whether you believe in the punishing of the wicked, or deliverance of the righteous.

Thanks.

Why are you asking for our beliefs? It is clear according to my info [Upper Right Hand] that shows in each thread that I am Catholic - so I believe in the Catholic Church and all she teaches including the Bible. I know that Sodom and Gomorah were punished. I know that Cities will be judged because Christ Himself said so.

If you need a detailed explanation of our beliefs, Google “The Apostle’s Creed”.

 

[BOMC]

God does sometimes deliver the righteous. But you still have not defended a single criticism of the Rapture. I am beginning to think that your definition of a “strawman” is somethign you are eiter unwilling or unable to defend.

Will you acknowledge my refute of the “no one talked about it before” strawman?

 

[BOMC]

Why are you asking for our beliefs?

Catholics vary in their beliefs as much as anyone, please don’t get upset just because I am asking a few simple questions. Give the authorized and/or your personal view if you want.

 

[CWBetts]

Will you acknowledge my refute of the “no one talked about it before” strawman?

To force me to provide evidence to the negative in and of itself is a straw man. You must prove that the Rapture did acturlly predate 1800. Show me from the ECFs that this was taught.

 

[Orthodox1047]

Catholics vary in their beliefs as much as anyone, please don’t get upset just because I am asking a few simple questions. Give the authorized and/or your personal view if you want.

I am afraid my friend that you cannot at once be Catholic and differ from any other True Catholic. Orthodox Catholics do not differ in Doctrinal [CORE] Beliefs.

I took the liberty of perusing your other posts and see that you have an affinity to Mormonism. The tone of your posts indicate clearly to me that you will cause only divisiveness if we continue to answer your posts. So unless you are truly interested in learning, there is nothing that we can do except pray for you. From this day onwards you are on my prayer list and I hope mightily for your conversion.