Issues with "the Rapture"

[BOMC]

To force me to provide evidence to the negative in and of itself is a straw man. You must prove that the Rapture did acturlly predate 1800. Show me from the ECFs that this was taught.

I have no idea what you just said, other than your ignoring my refute of the strawman, that just because no one spoke of it during a certain time means “the rapture” (Meaning whatever your view of it is.) is not true.

Again, the prophet Daniel was promised by the angel that not until the time of the end would people learn of it:

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. (Daniel 12:4)

And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. (Daniel 12:9)

Which destroys the strawman refute.

Are you honest enough to acknowledge that?

 

[BOMC]

I took the liberty of perusing your other posts and see that you have an affinity to Mormonism…

There’s your way out…but stick around, you might learn something that could save you future grief.

[Btw, I am not LDS, and just so you know, they have no clue what the rapture is, so you would have been in good company if I had been LDS.]

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I think we sometimes fail to remember that although these two men were christian writers, the literary work they did fuelled interest in the occult. Tolkien in particular had an influence on fantasy literature as the lord of the rings was the forefather of most epic fantasy novels like Terry Brookes - the sword of shannara.

As christians we sometimes find ourselves clinging to and elevating any other christian we see who has been successful in the world, especially when the world is so much against christianity. We need to remember though where and to whom our true loyalty must lie . . . God and His Word by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 5:11 says: “…and do not take part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them” We need to keep this in mind and draw no middle ground for the devil to take a foothold.

Well I’ve just looked up Sword of Shannara and frankly, I don’t see anything wrong with it. If you’re saying it’s something along the lines of anti-God series such as the His Dark Materials then I’d change my opinion in a snap. Regardless, moving on…

There’s nothing wrong with enjoying fantasy fiction and I think anybody who tends to affiliate the genre with the occult might have forgotten what the word fiction means. I mean I myself (and I have already said this countless times here) have not only read books with fantasy themes but have played fantasy role-playing games such Final Fantasy and Warcraft (with the latter obviously having a strong influence from Tolkien). In all my nine years with this hobby, I have never ever considered getting involved in any of the occult stuff such as Tarot, Satanism, or Wicca because such things bear no resemblance to the cool stuff I’ve seen in fiction.

No, but it does fulfill the prophecy of Daniel that it will not be talked of until the end time. I guess we are in the end times.

Sorry, I don’t see meteors falling from the sky any time soon. Personally, I don’t think anybody should buy into the end-times hysteria because all it does nowadays is give birth to your typical dung heap of conspiracy theories.

Honestly, why can’t we Christians just try to live in the present and follow what is already been taught instead of speculating about a future that we cannot see?

 

[CWBetts]

I have no idea what you just said, other than your ignoring my refute of the strawman, that just because no one spoke of it during a certain time means “the rapture” (Meaning whatever your view of it is.) is not true.

Again, the prophet Daniel was promised by the angel that not until the time of the end would people learn of it:

Which destroys the strawman refute.

Are you honest enough to acknowledge that?

I acknowledge that this is in reference to the Book of Life, in which the names of the saved are written, and no one will know whose names are written until the end. The Rapture was not taught by Christ. It was not taught by the Apostles. It was not taught by the Early Church Fathers. It has never been taught by the MAgesterium. It was invented by an anti-Catholic, and is therefore false.

 

[BOMC]

Sorry, I don’t see meteors falling from the sky any time soon. Personally, I don’t think anybody should buy into the end-times hysteria…speculating about a future that we cannot see?

Woooooo, that’s a huge hop, skip and a jump!

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Luke 12:34)

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: (Matthew 6:20)

 

[Orthodox1047]

There’s your way out…but stick around, you might learn something that could save you future grief.

[Btw, I am not LDS, and just so you know, they have no clue what the rapture is, so you would have been in good company if I had been LDS.]

Another one of your quotes:

"Hello? Honestly, there’s nothing I can do other than repeat myself - I’M NOT A MORMON! I am a Book of Mormon Christian, meaning, I go no further with Joseph other than what he was called to do - dictate the Nephite record.

This thread is about the Nephite record and who saw them. Take your Mormon bash somewhere else.

---

-BOMC

So you’re not LDS, but that wasn’t my assertion… In your own words you are a “Book of Mormon Christian” So my claim that you have an affinity to Mormonism was correct and it is now very obvious where you are coming from. I feel compelled to defend myself and point out that you are doing an injustice to others in your manner [or lack thereof].

Again - You are in my prayers

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Woooooo, that’s a huge hop, skip and a jump!

reads verses

And your point is…?

 

[BOMC]

I acknowledge that this is in reference to the Book of Life, in which the names of the saved are written, and no one will know whose names are written until the end.

Nice interpretation, but it is not right. He said:

shut up the words (Daniel 12:4)

Not names. And don’t forget what else he said of those words:

the time of the end many shall run to and fro and knowledge shall be increased. (Daniel 12:4)

The Rapture was not taught by Christ. It was not taught by the Apostles. It was not taught by the Early Church Fathers…

You must define what you mean by the word “rapture” first.

Will you acknowledge the above refutes of the strawman “no one ever talked about it before”?

 

[BOMC]

reads verses

And your point is…?

What’s so wrong with thinking on heaven or having a heavenly hope since we are admonished to do those very things?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

What’s so wrong with thinking on heaven or having a heavenly hope since we are admonished to do those very things?

Oh nothing wrong with that. Pointing out alleged “signs” and making absurd connections and theories on the other hand…

 

[BOMC]

So you’re not LDS, but that wasn’t my assertion… In your own words you are a “Book of Mormon Christian” So my claim that you have an affinity to Mormonism was correct and it is now very obvious where you are coming from.

What’s that? I already told I am not affiliated with Mormons; I also stated they have no clue about the rapture. And if it will help you to focus on the topic at hand, I will never quote from The Holy Book of Mormon in this thread - that would be a hi-jack.

I feel compelled to defend myself and point out that you are doing an injustice to others in your manner [or lack thereof].

Which is…can’t wait. Oh, and thank you for the prayers; what are you praying for again?

 

[BOMC]

Oh nothing wrong with that. Pointing out alleged “signs” and making absurd connections and theories on the other hand…

Incidentally, are there any signs worth noting? Or is that distracting in your opinion?

 

[Orthodox1047]

What’s that? I already told I am not affiliated with Mormons; I also stated they have no clue about the rapture. And if it will help you to focus on the topic at hand, I will never quote from The Holy Book of Mormon in this thread - that would be a hi-jack.

Which is…can’t wait. Oh, and thank you for the prayers; what are you praying for again?

Your words again: Another one of your quotes:

"Hello? Honestly, there’s nothing I can do other than repeat myself - I’M NOT A MORMON! I am a Book of Mormon Christian

You are a Book of Mormon Christian but you are not a Mormon and not quote from The Holy Book of Mormon. Is this an Oxymormon (SIC)? All your posted replies tend on the uncharitable and the sarcastic.

Need you really ask for what I am praying?

 

[BOMC]

You are a Book of Mormon Christian but you are not a Mormon and not quote from The Holy Book of Mormon. Is this an Oxymormon (SIC)?

Are you going to stick to the topic? If you don’t have an answer, move on. Truth is worth defending, don’t you agree?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Incidentally, are there any signs worth noting? Or is that distracting in your opinion?

They’re all nothing but the result of people looking too deep into things. If a certain event had happened, it happened because it happened for that moment. Not because it’s supposed to be taken a sign of the apocalypse.

People have been making wild proclamations about the end-times since the 1800s at best (and 1980s at least). I’m not going to believe something as crazy as the end of the world unless I see something along the lines of this.

Honestly, I never thought being a Doubting Thomas had such a very good benefit: immunity to deception.

 

[Orthodox1047]

Are you going to stick to the topic? If you don’t have an answer, move on. Truth is worth defending, don’t you agree?

Causa Finita Est!

 

[BOMC]

The Rapture was not taught by Christ. It was not taught by the Apostles. It was not taught by the Early Church Fathers…It was invented by an anti-Catholic, and is therefore false.

I find this statement to be misleading, yet I think you expressed the slant of a Catholic and why.

In defense of the Bible however, it does speak of:

• Rigtheous being delivered.
• Wicked being punished.
• A place called heaven where translated and resurrected beings now live.
• Promises associated with all three.

So, define the rapture before you accuse our Lord and his disciples of not teaching this or that.

 

[BOMC]

Causa Finita Est!

Feel better now? Get a life.

 

[kinja]

In all my nine years with this hobby, I have never ever considered getting involved in any of the occult stuff such as Tarot, Satanism, or Wicca because such things bear no resemblance to the cool stuff I’ve seen in fiction.

Honestly, why can’t we Christians just try to live in the present and follow what is already been taught instead of speculating about a future that we cannot see?

I too enjoy rts games like warcraft but i won’t deny that alot of the games characters and character abilities are based on the occult and occult beliefs and practices. Becasue “occult stuff” in your terms has no resemblance to you of the things in these games and books it does not make that statement true.

Magic and mythical creatures such as dwarves, elves and orc and lets not forget wizards, are all a part of magical lore and practice. Seasoned witches have written about summoning many of the mythical creatures showcased so attractively in warcraft and lord of the rings. Even though these games and books are not as focused on magic as say harry potter (which is mind blowingly occultic), they have strong undertones of occult practices with heroes employing necromancy and the use of magic and oracles. If you read your jerusalem bible you would agree that these things are all forbidden.

So while they may not affect you (you’re maybe fairly well grounded), they are suggestive and alluring anought to entice alot of other people and children in particular into dabbling in the dark arts. I saw a documentary in which occult and migic practitioners admit that they use conventions for rts and rpg games like dungeons and dragons and warhammer to recruit young people into their occult circles.

 

[Petrologist]

It’s my understanding that we have been in the last days or end times since Pentecost as proclaimed by the apostle Peter in Acts 2:16-21:

16 but this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17* ‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; 18 yea, and on my menservants and my maidservants in those days I will pour out my Spirit; and they shall prophesy. 19 And I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth beneath, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke; 20 the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and manifest day. 21 And it shall be that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.’

Therefore - since the apostles were divinely inspired to teach that we are in the end times via the downpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and these same apostles didn’t teach the rapture from the proof that the teachings didn’t appear for the first 1800s years of Christianity, then how does that fit in with the generally accepted belief that public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle? Or does not everyone accept the teaching that public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle?