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ProVobis
Guest
I can believe that. And that could be the reason why the priest now faces the people as well.
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catholictiger
Guest
you are exactly correct sometimes mikes are necessary just so people can hear you.
as far as everything goes with this mic issue, these decisions should be left up to the priest or the music director in dialogue with the priest (pastor). The pastor knows what is best for his Church some of his parishioners may have differing opinions, which he hopefully listens to, but it is up to the priest to make these decisions.
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Cat
Guest
And I stand by it.
The purpose of a choir at Mass is to lead the congregation in worship. If the congregation cannot hear or UNDERSTAND their “leaders,” then why are the “leaders” there?
Most choirs and directors are not that attractive that they can just silently “dress up the church” by their beauty. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’d rather look at a lovely sculpture of the Blessed Mother.
A choir costs money. The director is often paid, especially if the director is well-educated and well-qualified. Sometimes the accompanist is paid. Music must be purchased. Money needs to be invested wisely.
A choir takes time. If the choir members can’t be heard, or more importantly, UNDERSTOOD, then why waste time and put 3, 6, 10, 24, or more singers, plus a director and accompanist, through a weekly rehearsal? If it’s just a melody line you want, with no words, then ask an organist or pianist to just noodle.
I’m wondering if some of the naysayers on this thread are those who are used to the TLM, where hearing and understanding are not as important as silently joining your heart with the liturgy. But in the OF Mass, hearing and understanding ARE rather important.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Yes…for instance, I have seen the electric ones used in a “votive” effect for path lighting, because it would be too easy for someone to have a misstep and catch a pant-leg on fire or spill wax everywhere. They’re also nice in the same place as Christmas lights; that is, in among flammable greenery or flowers.
Still, lighting a candle is different from “we’ll leave the light on for you.” The real is better when it is reasonably attainable, and when it come to liturgy, it is a necessity.
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IneedGod
Guest
As someone who is HOH (hard of hearing), I am greatfull for mics. I am in my parish partly due to the fact that out of th ones close to me it is the one where I can hear everything!
You can’t imagine how frustrating it is not to be able to hear what song to sing, readings or prayers offered!
Technology can be a pain at times but some of it can really be a blessing
You can’t imagine how frustrating it is not to be able to hear what song to sing, readings or prayers offered!
Technology can be a pain at times but some of it can really be a blessing
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Oneofthewomen
Guest
I also had 10 parishes within a 3 mile radius of my home in the 1950’s,
all with parish schools that taught music.
It’s not the 1950’s anymore, and music education is no longer an important part of the education system, so we have many people, from at least 3 generations, who have no musical knowledge at all.
If fretting over a microphone/sound system is what “bothers” people, I am afraid our priorities are really messed up!
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EphelDuath
Guest
My question is how homilies were given in gigantic basilicas and cathedrals like San Pietro before microphones were invented… the acoustics can make a pronounced speaking voice loud enough, but not very clear.
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ProVobis
Guest
Actually with a congregation quiet enough, it wouldn’t have been that hard to hear. And in the summer they probably shut down the fans and kept the homily short. I’ll bet the number of hard-of-hearing was much lower too.
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surritter
Guest
That’s why beautiful old churches often have a raised pulpit – often one standing out 6 or 7 pews into the congregation. The priest would climb the stairs and project his voice for the sermon. (That’s really the only part of the Mass that needed to be heard clearly by the people.)
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pnewton
Guest
I have no problem justifying it. It’s a snap. being able to hear is better than not being able to hear. It is why God gave us ears. Can anyone imagine something like a cry room with an opaque window. I know, that would actual be a wall. So imagine an adjoining room with a no window where one could go and sit, but not see or hear the Mass. This would be silly. Providing the means to hear the Mass is as important as providing the means to see it.
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johnmann
Guest
Oh good point about the crying room. Need mics to pipe sound to the crying room.
Some don’t like crying rooms. I’m a big fan of them. In fact, there’s some talkative adults I’d like to put in the crying room.
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englishredrose
Guest
No I can’t imagine a cry room with an opaque window because it is only a concept that come across on here if I am totally honest with you. The whole name sounds absurbed! If it the child crying, one takes the child ‘out’. If the adult wants/needs to escape then they go ‘out’ thats it. I do actually detest the name cry room, or is that because am british etc… oh well… I can’t imagine it anyway:shrug:
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ProVobis
Guest
Brace yourself. They also have bathrooms here in the U.S. churches.
Would be called toilets or toilet rooms in the U.K.
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Ellen_Mary
Guest
Personally I dont see a problem with using microphones. I know a lot of the congregation at my church are elderly, and they appreciate hearing the priest clearly. I think its important to be able to feel included in the mass and the mircrophones are a useful tool.
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englishredrose
Guest
well so do we…Brace yourself. They also have bathrooms here in the U.S. churches.
Would be called toilets or toilet rooms in the U.K.
though we didn’t use to but i envy you guys for having starbucks in church grounds not that I could afford it that often but 
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englishredrose
Guest
talking of microphones I have just remembered a tiny funny in that when our present priest did his first service (on his own as week before he had help), we had got through the whole service and got back into the vestry and he glanced around asking if he did okay? He and we met a joyous response from the congregation who were quite happy to say he did. He’d forgotten to turn off his own little portable one that we have in churches now… just occaisionally it picks up his comments in that am sure he never really never intends the whole congregation to hear like at baptism when he is given the baby by the mother and he gingerly comments ‘now then’ as he makes the baby comfortable.
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babochka
Guest
In our liturgy, there are certain prayers that the priest prays while the congregation is singing other parts of the liturgy. Our priest uses a microphone, but it doesn’t really pick up the congregation singing. When I’m in the cry room, I hear the muffled sounds of the singing, but can clearly hear the priest when he prays these prayers in a low voice. I was surprised the first time I heard him, as I learned that he was praying them in his native language rather than English. It has been interesting to hear the progression over the 3 years that he’s been here. He has gradually started praying more and more of the prayers in English. In this manner, I’ve also learned that there are prayers that he says while incensing the church. My 9 year old daughter always asks to go to the cry room with me when I need to retreat there, because she loves to hear those prayers.
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anruari
Guest
I am a professional acoustician.
I can tell you very simply: If we are designing a room to have good speech inteligibity we aim to have a very low reverberation time. A average, furnished, carpeted living room might be about 0.5 seconds.
A classroom for primary school children in the UK is required to be 0.4 seconds or less. - particularly if there are to be hearing impaired or other special needs children in the room.
otherwise it’s 0.6 seconds. Secondary school (High School) may have up to 0.8 seconds, and dedicated music classrooms may have around 1 second.
Video Conferencing suites (where there’s a video link in a boardroom) are designed to be almost anechoic (almost no reverb at all). (0.1 - 0.2 seconds)
A Basilica, traditional large chapel or cathedral is likely to have a very long reverberation time of between 5 - 7 seconds. some may even top 12 seconds.
A “Reverberation time” is the time between a sound stopping at source, and it’s effects in the room to be 60 dB below the original level.
Now in order to understand speech, it is essential that the sound of each consonant is audible above the background noise which includes the echoes of the previous vowel and consonant sounds. if we think of the word “Back” there are 2 transient sounds: “Ba” and “ck”. the plosive ck is very much quieter that the vowel sound in “Ba”. The difference in sound level is about 25 dB vor normal voice and more for a raised voice. (The ck sound is unvoiced and almost unaffected by speaking louder)
The time between the end of the “Ba” and the very short “ck” in normal speech is about .35 of a second.
If the Rev. Time of a room is about .5 of a second, and the listener is not very close to the speaker, the sound of the “Ba” will have dropped by those 25 dB before the “ck” sound is made. In a Rev. Time of 1.5 seconds, it will still be about 10 dB louder, rendering the “ck” inaudible.
In very long reverb times entire short words get lost, and the differences between vowel sounds become muddled in the mush of sound.
Large Cathedrals and Basilicas were designed for Gregorian Chant. This deliberately slow form of chanting takes advantage of the build-up of noise in the echoy environment and aids understanding of the words therin.
similarly this is also what gives rise to the traditional image of the vicar, or priest with a Very slow, and overly enunciated speech pattern, as mocked by movies like the marriage scene in “The Princess Bride” and other similar parodies.
This slow speech is deliberately taught to imporve intelegibility when speaking to a group in a reverberant room. it allows more time for the sound to decay between each phoneme.
Traditional Church Design, included a pulpit which was raised up, near or among the congregation. It has a solid surface directly behind the priests position. This creates an echo from so close to the speaker that it is indistinguishable from the original sound (to the human ear) this boost the sound of the priests voice by 3dB.
Ditto, in the Ad Orientum altar, the solid wall contianing the tabernacle reflects and amplifies the priests voice.
These benefits are lost with the modern altar, and the modern lectern
Modern priests rarely use Chant.
Our Choirs ditto rarely use chant.
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Sarabande
Guest
In many churches, even ones with good acoustics, microphones are necessary, especially for the priest and readers. Most people today aren’t taught the art of public speaking without a microphone. In the past because there weren’t any microphones, people who were in positions where they would have to do public speaking, theater and classical singing (stage actors and classical singers still do this, actually), or any other kind of leadership, such as being priest or preacher, knew how to speak using support from their diaphrams. It was very important for them to be heard. Older churches and other buildings were built with this in mind and for those who have excellent projection wouldn’t need mics. That said, there were still people back then who were hard of hearing and I suspect that they still had a difficult time hearing the priests and other religious leaders who might have had excellent speaking voices.
It is true that in older churches, acoustics tend to be much better and if you had people trained well in public speaking and singing, you may not need a mic. But there are church buildings with completely dead acoustics and the person with the largest speaking or singing voice will not be heard. The sound will just stop right in front of your face. You need a mic in those situations.
I just had a chuckle. This is definitely a “first world” problem if this is the only thing a person has a problem with at mass.
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