It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

[Worthy5]

=CPA2;6536132

“No other issue, not all other issues taken together, can constitute a proportionate reason for voting for candidates that intend to preserve and defend this holocaust of innocent human life that is abortion (Father John Corapi).”

We all love Father, but really he ought to just stick to theology and stay out of American law----which he seems to know little about.

 

[buffalo]

A timely video:

Progressives - what they are and the threat they are to the Catholic faith

 

[CWBetts]

We all love Father, but really he ought to just stick to theology and stay out of American law----which he seems to know little about.

You cannot separate your faint and your politics. Your faith should determine your politics.

 

[CPA2]

We all love Father, but really he ought to just stick to theology and stay out of American law----which he seems to know little about.

American law should stay out of theology. American law should stick to civil law and stay out of Divine law and Natural law. One type of law cannot cross over into another type of law.

Read the bible, IF you are interested in absolute truth. The bible is a historical record of the early church which was grounded in absolute truth. Do not be like so many Catholics and other Christians who disregard the Church’s dogmas, but still want to belong to the Church.

Christians have to accept a great deal of guilt. We cannot think that we have based everything that we do on absolute truth, because we have not. We have based much of what we believe on our opinions and feelings, not truth. That is a flagrant error.

There are many Church-going Christians who believe that abortion is not for them. However, they believe that abortion is acceptable for others. They think that they have no right to “impose” their beliefs on others. What do these Christians base their opinion on? I assure you that it is not based on absolute truth.

 

[Worthy5]

CWBetts;6537569]You cannot separate your faint and your politics. Your faith should determine your politics.

Carl, American law has to promote multiple policies simultaneously—not just morality. This is not a medieval theocracy but rather a post-enlightenment democractic-republic where govt powers are limited. It is the best form of govt that can ensure that the free excercise of one’s own religion will not be unduly compromised.

Regards,

 

[Worthy5]

CPA2;6537620]American law should stay out of theology. American law should stick to civil law and stay out of Divine law and Natural law. One type of law cannot cross over into another type of law.

Then why is the " divine law" asking the civil law to help enforce its mandate about abortion?

Read the bible, IF you are interested in absolute truth. The bible is a historical record of the early church which was grounded in absolute truth. Do not be like so many Catholics and other Christians who disregard the Church’s dogmas, but still want to belong to the Church

.

Read the Bible with the Church’s understanding----nothing there requires a Catholic to accept what a few bishops say about how a citizen of a democratic-republic should vote regarding the govt role in society.

Christians have to accept a great deal of guilt. We cannot think that we have based everything that we do on absolute truth, because we have not. We have based much of what we believe on our opinions and feelings, not truth. That is a flagrant error.

This has nothing to do with voting on what the role of govt is going to be in a free society.

What do these Christians base their opinion on?

The policy of limited government.

God Bless

 

[CPA2]

"The Age of Enlightenment (or simply the Enlightenment) is the era in Western philosophy and intellectual, scientific and cultural life, centered upon the eighteenth century, in which reason was advocated as the primary source and legitimacy for authority."

False!

“But when the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth (Jn 16:13).” Spiritual blindness distorts our knowledge of God’s creation. The Holy Spirit frees us from the lies that we tell ourselves and the blindness that sin brings.

The most powerful words in the Creed of the Catholic Church are, “I believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth…” We live in God’s world, not our world. God is the source of the universe and our existence. Our task is to understand and come to terms with that. We are to respect and live in the world as God intended.

Christians form their conscience through education, prayer and the teaching of Jesus Christ. Conscience and truth go together. Society is adrift on a sea of hopelessness if you try to form your conscience without reference to God’s truths.

The Catholic Church taught that abortion is a great evil long before science made it clear that each individual is genetically unique. The Catholic Church still teaches this, even in the face of lack of respect for the sanctity of human life.

A church that permits abortion betrays the Gospel. Individuals who fail to do their part to correct the injustice of abortion betray the very essence of being human. Abortion is not an issue. Abortion is about people and it affects all of us. Abortion requires a response from all of us, and it is a measure by which God will judge us individually and as a nation.

 

[Rence]

Then why is the " divine law" asking the civil law to help enforce its mandate about abortion?

Read the Bible with the Church’s understanding----nothing there requires a Catholic to accept what a few bishops say about how a citizen of a democratic-republic should vote regarding the govt role in society.

This has nothing to do with voting on what the role of govt is going to be in a free society.

The policy of limited government.

God Bless

The Church really is out of place by trying to dictate to us how to place our vote, and by trying to emotionally blackmail our Catholic politicians. This is not a Catholic country and it was founded, among other things, to provide freedom of religion and prevent the tyranny of religious bodies from enforcing religious-based laws on it’s citizens. We don’t have the right to impose Catholic law on those who do not follow a Christian religion or Catholicism. They have the right to live their lives as their conscience dictates to them, not how the Church dictates to them.

This is all just an effort to apply Catholic law to the masses. The Church just doesn’t have that power anymore. Before, they used to throw their weight around, and supporting countries used to conform to the Church’s demands or risk being excommunicated, and more importantly, risk losing political cloute. They even burned thousands of “heretics” at the stake and drowned “witches”, etc to appease the Church in it’s power. They’re not going to do that for the Church anymore. The masses won’t give it to them again because they value the freedom and autonomy that they have been enjoying. They have enjoyed being free from the tyranny of religious organizations.

If the Church wants to enforce it’s laws, it has to do so from within the Vatican, not by trying to get Catholic laws passed in other countries. The time for that is over. I know they’re not excommunicating people who don’t follow the rules because then there wouldn’t be too many Catholics left and they won’t have that. But the harder they try to push on the masses who don’t follow Catholic law, the harder the masses will push back. And it’s just an ugly battle. The Church would do better by working towards making people want to follow Catholic teachings, not by trying to force them. People won’t be backed into a corner anymore.

 

[CWBetts]

Carl, American law has to promote multiple policies simultaneously—not just morality. This is not a medieval theocracy but rather a post-enlightenment democractic-republic where govt powers are limited. It is the best form of govt that can ensure that the free excercise of one’s own religion will not be unduly compromised.

Regards,

Banning abortions is well within the scope of your idol of limited government. One of the most basic responsibilities of government is to protect its people. Banning abortion protects its people from unjust aggression. Unless you refuse to accept that an unborn child is a person. If you do reject this, I would be interested in hearing your arguments so I can correct you. It seems to me that you think that morality cannot be legislated. In this you are incorrect. Since the existence of God, who is pure good, can be arrived at through reason alone, it follows that things that are good can also be legislated. And I am going on record right now in saying that democracy is NOT the best form of government. Democracy is mob rule, and results in the tyranny of the majority.

 

[CWBetts]

The Church really is out of place by trying to dictate to us how to place our vote, and by trying to emotionally blackmail our Catholic politicians. This is not a Catholic country and it was founded, among other things, to provide freedom of religion and prevent the tyranny of religious bodies from enforcing religious-based laws on it’s citizens. We don’t have the right to impose Catholic law on those who do not follow a Christian religion or Catholicism. They have the right to live their lives as their conscience dictates to them, not how the Church dictates to them.

This is all just an effort to apply Catholic law to the masses. The Church just doesn’t have that power anymore. Before, they used to throw their weight around, and supporting countries used to conform to the Church’s demands or risk being excommunicated, and more importantly, risk losing political cloute. They even burned thousands of “heretics” at the stake and drowned “witches”, etc to appease the Church in it’s power. They’re not going to do that for the Church anymore. The masses won’t give it to them again because they value the freedom and autonomy that they have been enjoying. They have enjoyed being free from the tyranny of religious organizations.

If the Church wants to enforce it’s laws, it has to do so from within the Vatican, not by trying to get Catholic laws passed in other countries. The time for that is over. I know they’re not excommunicating people who don’t follow the rules because then there wouldn’t be too many Catholics left and they won’t have that. But the harder they try to push on the masses who don’t follow Catholic law, the harder the masses will push back. And it’s just an ugly battle. The Church would do better by working towards making people want to follow Catholic teachings, not by trying to force them. People won’t be backed into a corner anymore.

The simple fact is that the Church should HAVE to do it. You should vote in line with Church teachings by instinct.

 

[CPA2]

The Church really is out of place by trying to dictate to us how to place our vote, and by trying to emotionally blackmail our Catholic politicians. This is not a Catholic country and it was founded, among other things, to provide freedom of religion and prevent the tyranny of religious bodies from enforcing religious-based laws on it’s citizens. We don’t have the right to impose Catholic law on those who do not follow a Christian religion or Catholicism. They have the right to live their lives as their conscience dictates to them, not how the Church dictates to them.

This is all just an effort to apply Catholic law to the masses. The Church just doesn’t have that power anymore. Before, they used to throw their weight around, and supporting countries used to conform to the Church’s demands or risk being excommunicated, and more importantly, risk losing political cloute. They even burned thousands of “heretics” at the stake and drowned “witches”, etc to appease the Church in it’s power. They’re not going to do that for the Church anymore. The masses won’t give it to them again because they value the freedom and autonomy that they have been enjoying. They have enjoyed being free from the tyranny of religious organizations.

If the Church wants to enforce it’s laws, it has to do so from within the Vatican, not by trying to get Catholic laws passed in other countries. The time for that is over. I know they’re not excommunicating people who don’t follow the rules because then there wouldn’t be too many Catholics left and they won’t have that. But the harder they try to push on the masses who don’t follow Catholic law, the harder the masses will push back. And it’s just an ugly battle. The Church would do better by working towards making people want to follow Catholic teachings, not by trying to force them. People won’t be backed into a corner anymore.

God and one person are a majority.

There are as many Gods as there are philosophers. I visited Communist China last summer. Our guide told me that he did not believe in Buddha; he believed in science. This new paganism is an outlook on life that holds to the sufficiency of human science without faith. Scientism is a deification of the experimental method and Humanism is a glorification of man who makes God to his own image. The spirit of modern philosophy is the “divinization” of man and the humanization of God.

God did imprint His law on all people. Therefore, I do see Hindu and Moslem people who are holier than I am. God is a Spirit with whom the human spirit holds intercourse, and the more profound that communication, the greater the apostolic energy. There is a difference in religions however, in Hinduism man is the wooer and God the wooed; man is the seeker and God is the found. In the Judaic-Christian tradition, God showed His love for us first.

“There are three possible kinds of God; the god of one’s own ego, in which the atheist believes, and which is also the god of modern Confucianism; the god of nature, of stone and gold and silver, which belonged to the old religions of idolatry; and the Supreme God, who made both man and nature, and redeemed them both upon the Cross (Sheen).”

You may remember Nietzche. He said that God was dead. He also said that if one did not accept Christ one ought to go crazy. Guess what? Nietzche went crazy!

Sometimes it is nice to have a pope and the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. It is also nice to be a Catholic. I do not have to keep rediscovering the meaning of the bible. The teaching of the Catholic Church has not changed since its inception.

The people that I really admire are Christian preachers who have become Catholic priests. Some of these people hated the Catholic Church, taught in Protestant seminaries, etc. I cannot imagine what struggles these people had. I do find a common thread, however. They all had to study Church teaching in the third or fourth century, well before the Reformation.

 

[Lypher]

(Information based on “Priests For Life”)

If you believe in “abortion rights,” and knowingly and willfully vote for a candidate who promises to protect those “rights,” you have committed a sin. This is especially true for Catholics who have 2,000 years of Church teaching and tradition to back them up (Church’s teaching in the 2nd century). A voter who votes for a candidate who supports abortion has intentionally and deliberately helped someone who promotes a violent and destructive activity. That vote is similar in seriousness to participating in a pro-abortion rally, or writing an editorial that supports abortion.

These are the moral implications of voting. I once belonged to the Democrat Party, then I joined the Republican Party, and I now belong to the Constitution Party. However, my moral obligation is to keep out candidates who support abortion, usually Democrats; therefore, I often vote for Republicans who oppose abortion.

We can commit sin in the voting booth. Everything that we say or do either affirms or denies moral law. We are either getting closer to God, or farther away from Him. Everything that we say or do either strengthens us in virtue or enslaves us in vice. You cannot sing God’s praises in the choir and then say that you believe in abortion.

I agree 100%…

 

[CallistusPM]

Amend!

Life begins at conception. This is an unalterable teaching of the Catholic Church. ** If you do not accept this you are a heretic **in plain English. A single abortion is homicide.

“No other issue, not all other issues taken together, can constitute a proportionate reason for voting for candidates that intend to preserve and defend this holocaust of innocent human life that is abortion (Father John Corapi).”

 

[Kush]

I personally feel its wrong to vote for candidates for religous reasons… This is what caused a major issue with the Bush administration. (thousands of children murdered in Iraq)… He used the church as a tool to get into power…

We as Christians should lead by example (i.e. teach our children about the value of life - at any stage)… vs desparatly trying to have the government impose our views on people. Remember guys, the goverment is usually corrupt.

Look at countries that impose thier spiritual and religous views on people… Saudi, Iran, etc… It always causes problems.

Just remember, the evil in the world will always try to use religon for thier own benefits… We need to take religon back from the government… and decide on our own moralitis… Let the governments stick to fixing our roads, and building schools…

Peace
Kush

 

[CWBetts]

I personally feel its wrong to vote for candidates for religous reasons… This is what caused a major issue with the Bush administration. (thousands of children murdered in Iraq)… He used the church as a tool to get into power…

We as Christians should lead by example (i.e. teach our children about the value of life - at any stage)… vs desparatly trying to have the government impose our views on people. Remember guys, the goverment is usually corrupt.

Look at countries that impose thier spiritual and religous views on people… Saudi, Iran, etc… It always causes problems.

Just remember, the evil in the world will always try to use religon for thier own benefits… We need to take religon back from the government… and decide on our own moralitis… Let the governments stick to fixing our roads, and building schools…

Peace
Kush

Your problem is that you are approaching life is that some things are “religious” and some are “secular” We have the Holy Spirit living inside us…everything is religious. We cannot parcel out our lives. Our faith in God determines everything

 

[Worthy5]

CWBetts;6537762]Banning abortions is well within the scope of your idol of limited government. One of the most basic responsibilities of government is to protect its people. Banning abortion protects its people from unjust aggression.

Carl as indicated, it is reasonable to have a legal pro-life position. Pro-choice is saying that despite that a wrong maybe going on—govt cannot regulate in that area with its police power. Govt can use other means to convince women to make the correct moral decision. You seem unwilling to accept that distinction.

Unless you refuse to accept that an unborn child is a person.

That is one of the legal distinctions. The Court did not decide whether the fetus is a life just that it was not a " person" protected in the same way by the law protects a born person.

If you do reject this, I would be interested in hearing your arguments so I can correct you.

Because the Supreme Court made such a legal distinction. The Court has the authority, not you.

It seems to me that you think that morality cannot be legislated. In this you are incorrect.

Well, Prohibition did not work out well did it? Sure, morality is part of the law—just not the sole and exclusive part.

Since the existence of God, who is pure good, can be arrived at through reason alone, it follows that things that are good can also be legislated.

It does? Define " things that are good" Should the govt pass a law saying no more Big Macs because it has too many calories. I mean how much do you want govt doing there Carl-----seems to me you like the current Administration.

And I am going on record right now in saying that democracy is NOT the best form of government. Democracy is mob rule, and results in the tyranny of the majority

.

Well, there is that saying, Democracy is a lousy form of govt. The problem is, it is the best form of govt we have.

 

[Worthy5]

=CWBetts;6537879]Your problem is that you are approaching life is that some things are “religious” and some are “secular” We have the Holy Spirit living inside us…everything is religious. We cannot parcel out our lives. Our faith in God determines everything

Now Carl, what a second. If faith in God determines everything----are atheist now outlaw? What happens if Protestants decide that Catholics, those statue worship, Pope=anti-christ people, need to be outlawed too?

 

[Kush]

Yes, I agree CWBetts,

However, its also important to know that…

We can parcel out the goverment, as its a political tool… it has and should have nothing to do with our spirte and spirituallity… Just like the Church, the church is an organization that deals with spiritually, but it is also compleately separate from God… the two have nothing to do with each other. In the end, we learn, and make up our own minds (what we know God has always wanted)… If we let others (polotics and the church) enforce opinions… we are going against God, who has made it very clear that we are here, and he wants us to have “free choice”.

Best way to put it is… A truth is a truth, untill you orginzie it… then it becomes a lie.

Peace
k

Your problem is that you are approaching life is that some things are “religious” and some are “secular” We have the Holy Spirit living inside us…everything is religious. We cannot parcel out our lives. Our faith in God determines everything

 

[CPA2]

Now Carl, what a second. If faith in God determines everything----are atheist now outlaw? What happens if Protestants decide that Catholics, those statue worship, Pope=anti-christ people, need to be outlawed too?

One needs to study Catholicism to understand it more. Too many people tend to get stuck in the gray areas, and suddenly find themselves questioning their religion. I would hate the Catholic Church more than the worse bigot if I were to believe all the lies that have been told about the Catholic Church. I really do not think that people hate the Catholic Church. I think that they hate what they erroneously believe to be the Catholic Church (Fulton Sheen). We tolerate people who join cults. After all, those people are just exercising their freedom! However, woe to the person who joins the Catholic Church!

There is only one God, but there are many religions. God is not responsible for the many religions. Man caused the division among believers. Jesus did not come to abolish the “Law,” but to fulfill it. Man is the one who messed up, not God.

Christians are principles oriented. We try to follow the principles laid down by Jesus Christ. We are all sinners and fall short of our objective. However, what separates us from the rest of the world is repentance. “Oh my God,I am sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins. I firmly resolve not to sin again and to avoid the near occasions of sin because of thy just justice and infinite love.” Christians repent when we do not follow the principles of Christ. The rest of the world does not have a clue what repentance is.

We are a “stiff-neck” people when it comes to abortion. God judges nations as well as individuals. We, as a nation, will experience God’s mercy through His just justice.

We will be brought back to reason thought chastisements. Some of the chastisements will be brought about by own hand, some by nature and some by the power of God. The power of evil will be broken!

The first three secrets of the chastisements will be pre-released, one by one, from Mirjana, the Medjugorje visionary, first to Father Petar. He will then read them to the world three days before they actually happen. Father Petar will read each secret from Medjugorje, Yugoslavia. There will be short intervals between the first, secon and third secrets.

Only God knows when this will happen. Furthermore, we do not know the order in which each one of the first three secrets will happen. Additionally, we have no clue about any of the remaining seven secrets.

“My children, I have come to earth for you, to open your hearts for God. My son, look around you: the world is full of sin,** many of your brothers and sisters have been killed through abortion and God does not want this because they are His creatures. For these people He has reserved many punishments.** (The Blessed Virgin Mary to Bacco Umberto, Oliveto Citra, Italy, August 6, 1986)”

 

[Worthy5]

CPA2;6538102]One needs to study Catholicism to understand it more. Too many people tend to get stuck in the gray areas, and suddenly find themselves questioning their religion. I would hate the Catholic Church more than the worse bigot if I were to believe all the lies that have been told about the Catholic Church. I really do not think that people hate the Catholic Church. I think that they hate what they erroneously believe to be the Catholic Church (Fulton Sheen). We tolerate people who join cults. After all, those people are just exercising their freedom! However, woe to the person who joins the Catholic Church!

There is only one God, but there are many religions. God is not responsible for the many religions. Man caused the division among believers. Jesus did not come to abolish the “Law,” but to fulfill it. Man is the one who messed up, not God.

Christians are principles oriented. We try to follow the principles laid down by Jesus Christ. We are all sinners and fall short of our objective. However, what separates us from the rest of the world is repentance. “Oh my God,I am sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins. I firmly resolve not to sin again and to avoid the near occasions of sin because of thy just justice and infinite love.” Christians repent when we do not follow the principles of Christ. The rest of the world does not have a clue what repentance is.

We are a “stiff-neck” people when it comes to abortion. God judges nations as well as individuals. We, as a nation, will experience God’s mercy through His just justice.

We will be brought back to reason thought chastisements. Some of the chastisements will be brought about by own hand, some by nature and some by the power of God. The power of evil will be broken!

The first three secrets of the chastisements will be pre-released, one by one, from Mirjana, the Medjugorje visionary, first to Father Petar. He will then read them to the world three days before they actually happen. Father Petar will read each secret from Medjugorje, Yugoslavia. There will be short intervals between the first, secon and third secrets.

Only God knows when this will happen. Furthermore, we do not know the order in which each one of the first three secrets will happen. Additionally, we have no clue about any of the remaining seven secrets.

“My children, I have come to earth for you, to open your hearts for God. My son, look around you: the world is full of sin,** many of your brothers and sisters have been killed through abortion and God does not want this because they are His creatures. For these people He has reserved many punishments.** (The Blessed Virgin Mary to Bacco Umberto, Oliveto Citra, Italy, August 6, 1986)”

Ooookay.