C
CPA2
Guest
If you do not see the evil of abortion, you certainly will not see the evil of contraception. Even if you do not believe in God, and believe only in love, your heart should tell you that love was meant to increase life.
- Status
L
Lypher
Guest
R
Rence
Guest
I agree, but I don’t share your belief that it will be accomplished by outlawing abortions. It’s just going to create more of a problem.
Many women need contraceptives for medical reasons. If birth control is made illegal, women who need it will have to jump through hoops to get it. In the meantime, birth control will be used by those who want to contracept whether it’s illegal or not. The only thing making it illegal will accomplish is 1) making drug dealers add it to their list, and 2) make it harder for patients to access when they need it. The only way to prevent women about the dangers of contracepting with hormones is to educate them about the dangers, and show them that there is a safer and just as effective alternative.
Yesterday I came across an organzation of women who are teaching women how to perform early pregancy abortions with simple materials easy to access. The abortion problem is not going to go away, ever, until something changes the way women think. Abortion and contraception are way too complex to solve by just attempting to outlaw them.
You would do better to approach the issues from the standpoint of education, rather than trying to force people’s hands. The more you push people, the more they will push back.
C
CWBetts
Guest
That is ridiculous. Maybe you should start thinking about eternity instead of the temporal.I think you have the freedom to say whatever you like?But so do I, and this is what I say: the abortion issue is way too complex an issue to say it’s going to just go away by voting for a pro-life candidate. It’s naive to think that making it illegal is going to solve all the problems of abortion. On the contrary, it’s going to worsen the situation. Also, when you take into account that pro-lifers don’t want to stop with abortion, but want to also outlaw birth control, it makes even less sense to think the problem of abortion will be resolved by voting for a candidate that is pro-life. Therefore, why should I waste my vote on a pro-life candidate that I believe won’t be good for the country when looking at the whole picture?
C
CPA2
Guest
C
CPA2
Guest
Who should receive protection under the law? The right to life should not be left to the subjective criteria of religious beliefs. We should not confuse the freedom “not to believe” with the freedom to destroy the life of another!
Our argument about abortion has less to do with our differing viewpoints than it has to do with the victims of abortion that need to be saved. I am sorry that you do not want to hear what I have to say. Abortion is an unpopular message, but it needs to be said, even if you are opposed to and offended by what I say.
C
CPA2
Guest
The state has a substantial interest in protecting and preserving life. The Supreme Court’s decision against partial birth abortion affirms that principle. The Supreme Court drew a line between abortion and infanticide. Additionally, the Court took a step toward defining the aliveness of a human being that was not quite born. The states will now pass their own partial birth legislation and “informed consent” legislation. Of course, there will be legal battles ahead. However, I expect favorable rulings. That surely beats the alternative.
By the way, how civilized and rational are we anyway when we can dispassionately discuss the dismemberment or collapsing the skull of an unborn baby? I do not have the stomach for it. That is why the pro choice people always sanitize the issue. We do not say that the abortionist brutally bashed the unborn baby’s brains out. The pro choice people say that the abortionist “reduced or separated the fetal calvarium.” Translation: separating the calvarium means the unborn baby’s head was severed with a scissors! The pro choice side lies. They are not honest in their language. They pretend what abortion isn’t when they do not honestly say what abortion is.
By the way, how civilized and rational are we anyway when we can dispassionately discuss the dismemberment or collapsing the skull of an unborn baby? I do not have the stomach for it. That is why the pro choice people always sanitize the issue. We do not say that the abortionist brutally bashed the unborn baby’s brains out. The pro choice people say that the abortionist “reduced or separated the fetal calvarium.” Translation: separating the calvarium means the unborn baby’s head was severed with a scissors! The pro choice side lies. They are not honest in their language. They pretend what abortion isn’t when they do not honestly say what abortion is.
D
donna_jean
Guest
Good Morning,
I feel God tells us it is a sin to vote for a pro-abortion candidates through the bible and scholars who have studied the Word as well as within our own conscience of not to kill/following the Ten Commandments.
The difficulty we have is in researching the actions of the candidates to make the best choices for pro-life because life is God’s creations.
Just because a candidate says they are pro-life does not mean they will do anything within their power once elected in the area of pro-life. It means they are saying they are moral and having the strongest of morals is the best candidate to run our country.
I feel God tells us it is a sin to vote for a pro-abortion candidates through the bible and scholars who have studied the Word as well as within our own conscience of not to kill/following the Ten Commandments.
The difficulty we have is in researching the actions of the candidates to make the best choices for pro-life because life is God’s creations.
Just because a candidate says they are pro-life does not mean they will do anything within their power once elected in the area of pro-life. It means they are saying they are moral and having the strongest of morals is the best candidate to run our country.
D
donna_jean
Guest
There are studies stating that when “something” is made illegal to do then that “something” is done even more .
Abortion should be talked about and there should be movements to protect life yet the WAYS in which we as people and groups approach talking about abortion and showing publicly how wrong it is can be a turn off and do no good.
We recently had a planned parenthood open in a town close to us. Many go daily to pray around the facility. This sounds nice but praying at churches and in homes is just as good…it does not make an impact to those that are going to abort…nor to the people who work there and understand the feelings of someone who is aborting along with needing money to survive…What is making a difference is the social service agencies that are opening up all around the planned parenthood for abortion healing and unplanned pregnancy help.
It is a sin however to vote for someone who is pro-abortion.
Abortion should be talked about and there should be movements to protect life yet the WAYS in which we as people and groups approach talking about abortion and showing publicly how wrong it is can be a turn off and do no good.
We recently had a planned parenthood open in a town close to us. Many go daily to pray around the facility. This sounds nice but praying at churches and in homes is just as good…it does not make an impact to those that are going to abort…nor to the people who work there and understand the feelings of someone who is aborting along with needing money to survive…What is making a difference is the social service agencies that are opening up all around the planned parenthood for abortion healing and unplanned pregnancy help.
It is a sin however to vote for someone who is pro-abortion.
C
CWBetts
Guest
“there are studies”–this doesn’t wash. Show these studies–from reputable sources (that means NO WIKIPEDIA). Also, clinic outreach DOES work. There is a reason there are no abortion mills in Steubenville, and clinic outreach played a strong role.
R
Rence
Guest
You haven’t offended me by what you said. You have the right to express your thoughts and beliefs like everyone else. It’s not like you can prevent me from exercising my rights, just like I can’t prevent you from doing the same. I appreciate your views, mine are just different than yours.
E
estesbob
Guest
As long as yoiu dont try and mislead other Catholics into believing it was acceptable to vote for a Pro-abortion candate and still be adheirng to the teachings of the Church(which it appears you are tyring to do in this thread) it just between you and God. I suspect your degree of culpabilty in supporting abortion may be lessensed by the fact your Pastor is evdidently ignorant of the Church’s teeaching in this area. Does your Bishop know you pastor is counseling his flock thats it is OK to reject Church teaching if it interferes with ones political veiws?Cool. I’m glad they would never tell me who to vote for. All I want is the freedom to excercise my right to vote without coersion and I don’t think that’s too much to ask
N
Nyarlathotep
Guest
It’s not misleading. You can vote for a pro-abortion candidate and still adhere to the teachings of the Church. You’re a Republican. You cannot fathom any “proportionate reason”. He’s a Democrat. He can. Full stop. End of story. Dead horse is dead.
L
Lypher
Guest
I agree 100%… It would be the same as buying a Football that is made in the USA by a company that makes Soccer balls in India using Child labor and the saying that just because you supported a company that abuses children in India does not mean the company is immoral and should not be supported for the footballs, because they are really nice footballs.
L
Lypher
Guest
I believe the law needs to be written with regards to inhuman treatment and Pain. When a Fetus can feel pain is a good measure to start marching from…because once we start it will continue until conception… (My Opinion)
R
Rence
Guest
I’m very sorry if you think I’m attemting to mislead Catholics regarding teachings about voting. That wasn’t my intent. I don’t think I’ve denied the teachings of the Church. However, I have stated how I feel about voting and the fact that I believe the Church is inappropriate in directing citizens how to vote. In fact, I know I don’t deny the teachings because I said I don’t agree with them. I believe this issue is between God and me.
I don’t “reject” the Church’s teachings. I use my concience to drive my vote. The Church’s teachings on voting are things we are to take into serious consideration and with an open heart and mind, and a clear conscience. And I do take into serious consideration what the Church teaches when I vote, or in whatever I do. However, in following my conscience, I cannot in good conscience vote (or do something) that screams to me that’s wrong. I did not say I would vote specifically for a pro-choice candidate. What I said was, I would vote for the candidate that I believed would do the job best and that would be an asset to our counry, which means I don’t just look at the abortion issue, but the whole picture.
Again, this is my opinion. I think we know this far in the thread what the Church teaches.
R
Rence
Guest
This is what I believe to be true. Everyone has to do what they believe is right.
C
CWBetts
Guest
The idea that we limit ourselves by being one-issue voters is ridiculous. Abortion is one of those issues that outstrips all others. There are other issues that I would consider deal-breakers as well, but they never show up on the ballot. It is only a matter of time before people see abortion as one of those issues that is just as ludicrous to try to justify.
E
estesbob
Guest
Which is not, of course, what the Church teaches. What need did Jesus have to found a Church if everyone was going to be left alone to figure out what is right?
W
Wampa
Guest
Here’s one example where it most definitely made a difference:
Young Counselor Threatened with Knife Learns that Baby Was Saved from Abortion:
lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/feb/10021702.html
“Hall revealed to the Duluth Tribune News that, thanks to the Winandys, she never did go through with the abortion as she had intended. Hall told reporter Mark Stodghill that she thanked the Winandys for being there. ‘If they weren’t there, I probably would have gone through with it and regretted it for the rest of my life. It probably would have gone the other way. I’m sincerely sorry for doing that to her.’”
I agree that social service agencies make a difference, but so do sidewalk counselors. They both work; it doesn’t need to be either/or.
- Status