It is NOT immoral to vote for Democrats

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Yes people should get those things and MORE like proper moral instruction. By the way, abortion is not health care in my mind – it’s not aimed at treating a disease. It is an elective procedure at best and the patient should pay for it.

Along with RIGHTS come responsibilities, like payment for services. Some people talk like everything is or should be free. All these things cost money, it should be remembered. Democrats are promoting progressivism, which means socialism. As P/ Benedict pointed out, it doesn’t work, in fact no country has ever fully implemented socialism.

You have a right to disagree
 
I’d be happy if I could just get more diversity of opinion on my ballot. Where are the pro-life Democrats?! Blue Dogs, Dems for Life, etc. where are you? Someone needs to send that party a message that they need to drop their pro-choice candidate litmus tests!
 
the way, abortion is not health care in my mind – it’s not aimed at treating a disease. It is an elective procedure at best and the patient should pay for it.
I agree fully with that.

Govt paying for abortions is abhorrent.
 
I don’t.

My wife and I are both disabled. I’m a disabled US Military Veteran. You know who has been charitable and helped us survive? The US Govt which I served and our State Govt.

The only thing the Church has done for us is give us a $30 food voucher every 3 months…

We had an apartment fire where we lost everything. I told my Pastor and you know what the Church did for us? Nothing. Couldn’t even get a bed frame from the Church.

Back 5 years ago I was homeless and I visited a Priest for help. You know what help I got from the Church? Nothing. The Priest actually laughed and showed me pictures of the beautiful new home he was getting ready to move into.

Wanna know who did help? The State DHHS of where I live.

You know who did help us? The Red Cross.
That’s personal anecdote and you know what else? It’s after decades of the government intervening and lessening the roles of Christian charities. So, this is not the same era as St. Vincent de Paul. We have probably lost sight of the potential of Catholic Charity.

However, the point remains, why should it come down to you? If you want us to pursue true Christian Charity, I’m sure there are people in Africa who were more in need than you. Jesus said there will always be the poor. How do we know someone was not in more need than you were?
 
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The “five non-negotiables” comes from lay organizations, not Holy Mother Church. Granted, the issues typically found on these lists are indeed non-negotiable for Catholics, but it is not by any means a comprehensive list.
For example, according to the Catechism, both torture and the death penalty are non-negotiable, but here at CAF where a particular brand of conservative Americans dominate, you won’t hear much about that…
 
The Holy Father disagrees with you. He has used that exact phrasing - basic health care as a basic right.
A pope can have an opinion that is not official Church teaching.
The entire civilized world outside of the US disagrees with you.
Meh. They also think abortion and same sex “marriage” are rights.
The idea of Catholics contesting that health care is a basic right would be absurd and unthinkable in any context outside of the US… the Church always ran hospitals when she could… as a solemn duty and obligation.
You are correct that is an obligation to help those around us who need our health. However I have no right to someones money so that I can have health care.
 
Killing a person is far worse than not giving him affordable housing (something the democratic party is big on).
Isn’t a lack of housing a death sentence though?

Have you ever been homeless? Do you know what the homeless have to live through? How many die from drugs?

IMO, homelessness is as big of an issue as abortion.
 
The “five non-negotiables” comes from lay organizations, not Holy Mother Church. Granted, the issues typically found on these lists are indeed non-negotiable for Catholics, but it is not by any means a comprehensive list.
For example, according to the Catechism, both torture and the death penalty are non-negotiable, but here at CAF where a particular brand of conservative Americans dominate, you won’t hear much a
Fine, rationalize it any way you want. I think we have heard this before by the way. I would think almost everyone knows this. However, if you are asking me to vote for the slaughter of babies, please don’t even try.
 
? If you want us to pursue true Christian Charity, I’m sure there are people in Africa who were more in need than you. Jesus said there will always be the poor. How do we know someone was not in more need than you were?
That’s a ridiculous argument.

There’s ALWAYS someone who is in more need or a worse situation than you…

It doesn’t mean the situation you’re in isnt dire or won’t lead to death.
 
He doesn’t sound like much of a priest. I hope he’s been excommunicated.
 
I think the “culture of death” is pervasive, and is certainly not absent from the GOP.

Shall we start with the migrant crisis?
 
Isn’t a lack of housing a death sentence though?

Have you ever been homeless? Do you know what the homeless have to live through? How many die from drugs?

IMO, homelessness is as big of an issue as abortion.
You are not Catholic teaching, all you are saying is it comes down to me. If someone in Haiti under the guise of Christian charity deserves that home more than you, then, they should have it. Uncle Sam should go over and build it ourselves.
 
I think the “culture of death” is pervasive, and is certainly not absent from the GOP.

Shall we start with the migrant crisis?
How about starting with the Pearly Gates, remind me, does everyone get in? Yes or no! That is your answer.
 
Part of the problem, too, is simplistic thinking. The same kind of thinking that got me to register as Republican because I was scared of committing mortal sin.

One simplistic outlook is to divide Dem and GOP as “pro-abortion” and “pro-life,” respectively.

Again, it’s not always the ends that are at issue — what Catholic Democrat wants more abortions??? Rather, it’s the means. How do we responsibly limit and ultimately get rid of the need for abortions?
 
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@twf my friend have you seen how our Holy Father Pope Francis amended the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

The old CCC paragraph on the death penalty was what follows…

CCC 2267 used to read:

"Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”

Now CCC 2267 reads:

"Recourse to the death penalty on the part of legitimate authority, following a fair trial, was long considered an appropriate response to the gravity of certain crimes and an acceptable, albeit extreme, means of safeguarding the common good.

Today, however, there is an increasing awareness that the dignity of the person is not lost even after the commission of very serious crimes. In addition, a new understanding has emerged of the significance of penal sanctions imposed by the state. Lastly, more effective systems of detention have been developed, which ensure the due protection of citizens but, at the same time, do not definitively deprive the guilty of the possibility of redemption.

Consequently, the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that “the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person”, and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide."
 
That’s pretty remarkably horrible. Our archdiocese runs a men’s hostel - they’re always asking for donations for clothing etc. You would think at a minimum the priest would have given you directions to something like that… wow.
 
Do you have a right to roads? Do you have a right to national defence? Do you have a right to police intervention when your life is threatened? I’ll never understand why these are upheld as a given but a right to health care is suddenly full blown communism…
 
You would think at a minimum the priest would have given you directions to something like that… wow.
Nope.

My wife and I walked in and went to Mass with our smelly clothes and backpacks and bags containing our belongings.

After I asked the Priest if he could help and he was “ohh I can’t but maybe go down to the shelter or so and so and they can help” - then he started kinda joking around and saying how he’s moving himself amd showing me pictures of his beautiful new home.

This was also at a very large, and very rich parish. He made no attempt to invite us in or help us or anything like Jesus would have done.

I swear to the Almighty God this is what happened to me. Both God and my wife are my witnesses.
 
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