It is NOT immoral to vote for Democrats

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The government should provide a social net, this is not the exclusive domain of the Democrat party and it would be laughable to think so.
 
Salmonslayer said:
believe the best thing to help the poor is a job and teaching a good work ethic and supporting government policies that provide an economic climate that people can prosper in.

I help people that need help and are willing to help themselves. I will not subsidize failure and a lack of effort.
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I was with you 100% until your last two sentences.

Don’t you get it? It is not your place to judge who deserves help and who doesn’t because of a “lack of effort.”

It is your place to help those less fortunate than yourself. Without judgement. PERIOD.

That is the Way of Christ.
 
Victoria33 said:
The government should provide a social net, this is not the exclusive domain of the Democrat party and it would be laughable to think so.
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Both major American parties agree that the government should provide a social safety net.

The disagreement is in how extensive the net should be, and which level of government should provide it.
 
KMC said:
Here is a statement by the Bishops of Dallas and Ft. Worth. Please read as it addresses many of the comments you have been making. They specifically state that the subject of abortion MUST carry more weight than the other concerns you mention.

Catholic Pro-Life Committee - Civic Action
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Yes, this is Catholic teaching and with this, I am out of here. No one should even find this debatable per a Catholic perspective. If you have 2 candidates with pros and cons about them, I will vote for the one more in tune with Catholic teaching.
 
ChristMyLife said:
I was with you 100% until your last two sentences.

Don’t you get it? It is not your place to judge who deserves help and who doesn’t because of a “lack of effort.”

It is your place to help those less fortunate than yourself. Without judgement. PERIOD.

That is the Way of Christ.
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Right, so now we are back to square one, if one says there are much poorer people in Africa and Bangladesh and Yemen, now, one’s argument becomes “ridiculous” that stating they should be helped first in “following Christ”, your argument is subjective not objective.
 
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Victoria33 said:
Age would be irrelevant and now, I note, with the slight bit of adverse reactions to your ideas, now someone is subtly insulted. I would ask you not to do this but treat others as equals. And yes, I know the post was not addressed to me.
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I’m just baffled that an adult who lives by himself would consider a human being living in America in 2018 to have “luxury” becaise he has a toilet that flushes, a shower, and electricity.

To me those are not luxuries - they’re basic amentities which are necessary for human life in the modern world. What kind of life will a person live with no electricity or plumbing in the context of America in 2018?

In the context of Jerusalem in the 1st century it would be a tremendous luxury to have running water, and a miracle to have electricity…

In the context of America in 2018, plumbing and electricity are basic human necessities.

Times change, society evolves.
 
When people say that everyone has a right to shelter, food, healthcare, do they mean FREE shelter, food healthcare?
 
Victoria33 said:
However, if you are asking me to vote for the slaughter of babies, please don’t even try.
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Wasn’t Trump supposed to end it or something? It’s been two years since his election, and as far as I know Roe is still a thing.
 
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TheAmazingGrace said:
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Victoria33:
However, if you are asking me to vote for the slaughter of babies, please don’t even try.
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Wasn’t Trump supposed to end it or something? It’s been two years since his election, and as far as I know Roe is still a thing.
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Kavanaugh made a conservative majority. Don’t you know that’s why the Dems were fighting it so hard??!!
 
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In America anyway,health care is a right. You can’t be turned away if you walk into any Emergency room. FREE healthcare is NOT a right. Free “anything” is not a right. However we have an obligation to help those who need it. The Republican Party is not against a safety net for people, people like that are on the extreme end just like “everyone is entitled to everything free” is the extreme left.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
Wasn’t Trump supposed to end it or something? It’s been two years since his election, and as far as I know Roe is still a thing.
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I think it lacks charity to make such a trite remark about this topic. We did not elect a Magician. I think your remark is very unkind and clearly, unrealistic if it was not meant that way. Miss the death threats issued to Kavanaugh’'s family perhaps?
 
KMC said:
Here is a statement by the Bishops of Dallas and Ft. Worth. Please read as it addresses many of the comments you have been making. They specifically state that the subject of abortion MUST carry more weight than the other concerns you mention.

Catholic Pro-Life Committee - Civic Action
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That is the opinion of two Bishops who have no jurisdiction over me.

While I respect their opinion, the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church and the guidance of the Pope and USCCB take precedence over their opinions.

Besides, it’s a non issue for me as I am already vehemently pro-life and anti-abortion. I will do everything in my power to support those causes. But I won’t violate my conscience by supporting politicians who I don’t believe to be truly pro-life just because they spout platitudes about closing planned parenthood or whatever.
 
People on this thread are talking past each other, using different definitions for the same word: “right”.

In the US, constitutional rights are those things you get just for being a citizen…you don’t have to pay for them.
What the Church is calling a “right” is more akin to a moral responsibility.

We have a moral responsibility as Christians to provide healthcare to those who can’t afford it. We cannot have the government declare healthcare a right, because that means one person has the right to have medical professionals provide services for free, and hospitals to provide beds and equipment for free.
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
When people say that everyone has a right to shelter, food, healthcare, do they mean FREE shelter, food healthcare?
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It means shelter, food, and health care which is available to them in their station of life.

If they are very poor and destitute, then the State may need to subsidise those things for them.
 
ChristMyLife said:
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KMC:
Here is a statement by the Bishops of Dallas and Ft. Worth. Please read as it addresses many of the comments you have been making. They specifically state that the subject of abortion MUST carry more weight than the other concerns you mention.

Catholic Pro-Life Committee - Civic Action
Click to expand...
That is the opinion of two Bishops who have no jurisdiction over me.

While I respect their opinion, the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church and the guidance of the Pope and USCCB take precedence over their opinions.

Besides, it’s a non issue for me as I am already vehemently pro-life and anti-abortion. I will do everything in my power to support those causes. But I won’t violate my conscience by supporting politicians who I don’t believe to be truly pro-life just because they spout platitudes about closing planned parenthood or whatever.
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So please explain why they are wrong. Educate me.
 
I referenced this passage and was accused of espousing Protestant ideas that are offensive to Catholics…

Which is odd… it’s usually Catholics who are accused of over emphasizing performing good works…
 
ChristMyLife said:
Besides, it’s a non issue for me as I am already vehemently pro-life and anti-abortion. I will do everything in my power to support those causes. But I won’t violate my conscience by supporting politicians who I don’t believe to be truly pro-life just because they spout platitudes about closing planned parenthood or whatever.
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But your views then, can be called into question. Undoubtedly, if one voted, for example for Obama, the compassionate one, one voted for someone who even would allow babies who survive abortion to be left to die. So, your relativism leaves open the way to vote however one wants since one is now the judge of others and derisive language again, towards others. I thought we were talking about following Christ’s way. That is not how Christ responded to others.

So, maybe we need a personal question back. Have you supported abortion radicals like Obama?
 
ChristMyLife said:
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Loud-living-dogma:
When people say that everyone has a right to shelter, food, healthcare, do they mean FREE shelter, food healthcare?
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It means shelter, food, and health care which is available to them in their station of life.

If they are very poor and destitute, then the State may need to subsidise those things for them.
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Words mean things. Again, providing these things to those in need is a moral responsibility. Nobody has a “right” in the constitutional sense to those things.
 
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