It shouldn't be this hard to be Catholic

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JGC:
They are Anglican, not Catholic

I’m sure they do cracking liturgy as High Church Anglo Catholics, but as I know too well (see my post above), that’s only part of the picture…
I am a refugee from those “continuing” Anglican Churches. They can’t agree on anything for five minutes and go instantly into schism over nothing. Gag. If it’s gonna be catholic, let it be Catholic. If you want cracking good high church Anglican liturgy, find one of the Vatican approved “Congregations of Anglican Use” which function under a pastoral provision issued by the Holy Father. There are some in the South.
 
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mercygate:
I am a refugee from those “continuing” Anglican Churches. They can’t agree on anything for five minutes and go instantly into schism over nothing. Gag. If it’s gonna be catholic, let it be Catholic. If you want cracking good high church Anglican liturgy, find one of the Vatican approved “Congregations of Anglican Use” which function under a pastoral provision issued by the Holy Father. There are some in the South.
Or, since it seems to be her taste, she (lefthand) could look to see if a parish in her area has an indult Tridentine Latin Mass. The sung High Mass with the Gregorian Chants, incense (all the smells and bells of Catholicism) is certainly something to experience. If she doesn’t feel edified by the Novus Ordo Mass, then perhaps the TLM might be right for her.

Just a note, for the person interested in this Mass, make sure that the Parish celebrating it is under indult from the Bishop and in Communion with Rome. There are schismatic groups (most notably the SSPX) that offer this Mass exclusively. Receiving the Blessed Sacrament from such a group, while valid, is illicit.
 
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mtr01:
Just a note, for the person interested in this Mass, make sure that the Parish celebrating it is under indult from the Bishop and in Communion with Rome. There are schismatic groups (most notably the SSPX) that offer this Mass exclusively. Receiving the Blessed Sacrament from such a group, while valid, is illicit.
Oops, that should read under permission from the bishop as directed in the papal indult.
 
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lefthand36:
My dear JohnCarroll,

Oh my! This southerner could not agree more with you. Why does it have to be soooo hard to be Catholic. I joined the Catholic church just this year after being Lutheran for 14 years. I visited the Reformed Episcopal Church with conservative views for about a year. The protestant religions have a great love for Christ. They truly do. The more I question where I should be, I often wonder if I wasn’t better off where I was.

Have you ever considered the Anglican Catholic Church. They have the most conservative views that I have ever seen, but yet they believe that the central part of worship is the Eucharist.

I am seriously considering this congregation because I believe the Vatican II has brought terrible problems to the church, and acceptence of things God would not want. In Mississippia, I may not be as lucky as you are. There are only two Anglican Catholic Churches in Mississippi. On your search engine type in the Anglican Catholic Church (ACC). They still use the 1928 Edition of the Book of Common Prayer. This may be the best option for you. I am seriously considering this church, even though it is 2 hours away.

No one can understand more than I can. What has happened to conservative views? God expects them!

God bless,
lefthand36
Brenda
Dear Brenda
I have a better idea . Can you can find an Catholic Church Anglican Rite?. It might solve both problems. It is a Latin Church that used to be Episcopalian but now in Communion with Rome.

Thanks to everyone for your advice . Several of you said that Truth is better than beauty --well ( he says grudgingly) I think so too. But WHY should we have to choose between them? Several of you seemed to think we former anglicans are longing for a pep rally. Quite the contrary. Beauty and reverence are very Catholic things --they say something about God that can NOT be said with WORDS. And yes, it is good to be thrilled to be in church . We will attract others when we worship Him in the Beauty of Holiness. ( and the holiness of beauty)

Many have recomended the Tri D mass . It may be that this appeals so much because it was so beautiful as well as so truthful.
 
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JohnCarroll:
Thanks to everyone for your advice . Several of you said that Truth is better than beauty --well ( he says grudgingly) I think so too. But WHY should we have to choose between them?
I think the simple answer is that the “Truth” is always the same, for everyone. This cannot be said for beauty, however.
 
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davidv:
I think the simple answer is that the “Truth” is always the same, for everyone. This cannot be said for beauty, however.
What you say is true to a point- however there is a relationship between truth and beauty. In the east Beauty is one of the names of God. We are not talking about decoration here. We are talking about beauty as the communication of the truth.

Example: 1, " Thanks for dying for us , Jesus"
Example 2, " We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee. Because by Thy Holy Cross, Thou hast redeemed the world."

Both say just about the same thing --almost. The first, if sincere, --nothing wrong with it . The second says it again but with beauty. Are they the same? No. There is grace, winsomeness, exaltation, in the second example that raises the mind in a way the first can not do. It is beauty AND truth --a higher thing than truth alone.
 
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JohnCarroll:
What you say is true to a point- however there is a relationship between truth and beauty. In the east Beauty is one of the names of God. We are not talking about decoration here. We are talking about beauty as the communication of the truth.
Have you attended an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy? Might be what you are looking for. I’m sure the folks at the Byzantine Catholic forum would help you out. Irish Melkite on these boards I’m sure would help too. byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi
 
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JGC:
Have you attended an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy? Might be what you are looking for. I’m sure the folks at the Byzantine Catholic forum would help you out. Irish Melkite on these boards I’m sure would help too. byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi
Dear JGC

Thanks for the post. Yes I have thought of this but the local two Eastern Catholic churches are very small and far away. Not that I don’t like small-- It is an idea.

My ancestors were from Scotland. What is it like to be a Catholic there? Do you have any experence with Catholic Churches farther east into Europe? Do you notice a difference ? Singing?
 
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JohnCarroll:
Dear JGC

Thanks for the post. Yes I have thought of this but the local two Eastern Catholic churches are very small and far away. Not that I don’t like small-- It is an idea.

My ancestors were from Scotland. What is it like to be a Catholic there? Do you have any experence with Catholic Churches farther east into Europe? Do you notice a difference ? Singing?
What is it like to be Catholic in SCOTLAND? :bigyikes: Land of priest-holes and “Kick the Pope?” I guess it’s better than it used to be because Scotland, like every place else on that side of the water is going totally secular. A friend visited a museum in Scotland last year where an ancient baptismal font was on display and the descriptive label included an explanation of what baptism IS! :crying:
 
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mercygate:
A friend visited a museum in Scotland last year where an ancient baptismal font was on display and the descriptive label included an explanation of what baptism IS! :crying:
Good Grief, that is very discouraging.
 
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JohnCarroll:
Thanks to everyone for responding,
I guess in boiling down my long post, what I am asking is this: Granting that the Church has the fullness of the truth, what good is it if that truth, lived out, can not inspire on Sunday, provide a teacher, make itself known in a sermon, move me to evangelize, or introduce a child to Jesus? I have not been at this very long . Will I see these things as I am at it longer?

This is why this forum has been so important to me. How could we have discussed these things together in our individual parishes?

Todays Church is like the poor daughter of a once rich and cultured family. She works night and day just to keep up and has no time for friendship , and little use of that former beauty.

I found all that you’re looking for when I went through and got involved in my Cursillo community, and through that have found a great parish to attend. We celebrate the mass with joyous music and song, I hope this suggestion will help you in your journey…
 
John Carrol,

I became Catholic at age 24. Now I am 73. I live in a middle-sized city in which there are 5 Catholic Churches.

This thread reminds me that in these 49 years, not one Parish Priest nor parishoner has been here to my home except for two men who came by years ago to ask me to pledge money to the building fund.

We go to Mass and leave Mass and never say more than ,“Hello, how are you”, to others. After 49 years I don’t know even one Catholic family.

Why I contenue to pray, to go to confession and attend Mass without the encouragement of other humans says to me…it must be the work of the Holy Spirit. Hang in there!
 
the Truth is the Truth, no matter how many people who profess to believe it don’t really have a clue, my belief or unbelief, and my response, do not affect the reality of the Truth, just the reality of my relation ship with the Author of Truth. Yep, you are going to have to accept all kinds of crud and all kinds of wacko people if you join this Church, imagine the Pharisees hobnobbing with the prostitutes, tax collectors, rowdy kids, screaming babies, lepers, Samaritans, fishermen and other riff-raff, all for the privilege of sitting on a hillside in the hot sun for hours, listening to a sermon, eating bread and fish from who knows where it’s been, no beer to wash it down.

the answer, in spite of well-meaning advice here, is not to restlessly search from here to there hither and yon for a more exciting, more valid, more spiritually satisfying experience in this organization or that. The answer is the Eucharist. It is always there, even in the most awkwardly celebrated, poorly accompanied Mass.

It is not the job of the Church to bring people in relationship with Christ, it is the job of the Holy Spirit. You just show up and let Him go to work. The Church IS people in relationship with Christ. You can’t pick your relatives, you are stuck with them.
 
This is all good advice but the gist of it is seems to be–stick to it , I know it is awful, but stick to it. You may be right, but the Church of Jesus Christ deserves better than that. It is hard enough enduring all the world hands us, it shouldn’t be the same in church too.
Being alone with the Eucharist is very much like being alone without it. Some times we need God with skin on Him.
I like the suggestion of Cursio or some like minded catholic group -perhaps that would be a way to find an answer. In protestant groups Sunday School serves this need. In the little experence I have it seems that Catholics REALLY need a way to receive encouragment from other Catholics in the life of Christ.

Boy, has this turned into a downer of a post.
 
Mercygate and others,

Thank you for offering words of encouragement. I often need that to stay afloat, as it becomes very discouraging often. I joined this site as JohnCarroll did to find hope in what I originally believed in.

I am not trying to be wishy-washy, I just want to experience God in the most wonderful way. Could you tell me of any Catholic churches where this might be available to me and my family?

Hang in there JohnCarroll, God will see us through. I can understand your concern, because I have an 11 year-old son and an 8 year-old daughter. I worry so much about them, but in the end, it is our place as parents to instill truth and values in them.

Keep the faith, JohnCarroll. He will see us through.

God bless,
lefthand36
Brenda
 
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lefthand36:
Mercygate and others,

Thank you for offering words of encouragement. I often need that to stay afloat, as it becomes very discouraging often. I joined this site as JohnCarroll did to find hope in what I originally believed in.

I am not trying to be wishy-washy, I just want to experience God in the most wonderful way. Could you tell me of any Catholic churches where this might be available to me and my family?

Hang in there JohnCarroll, God will see us through. I can understand your concern, because I have an 11 year-old son and an 8 year-old daughter. I worry so much about them, but in the end, it is our place as parents to instill truth and values in them.

Keep the faith, JohnCarroll. He will see us through.

God bless,
lefthand36
Brenda
Thank you Brenda,
The Lord is always faithful. I think this time of fog is God wanting to make sure my eyes are open as I come into the Catholic Church. I watch EWTN and can hardly wait to be a part of it–then I Go to Church . It may be that I just don’t know anyone there and the loneliness makes it seem worse than it really is.
 
I understand as well what you are saying. I feel we are going through a great crisis and cleansing in the Church as well. In this country and Europe we tend to intellectualise everything. When people go and take our Lord in the Eucharist the majority think He is a symbol.This is a bad situation that we have to pray about. There are very good parishes though I would look around. See if they have Bible study groups and colleges are starting to organise youth groups for Catholics.God Bless
 
Know what I was shown? The focus of the mass was moving toward music - there was always music playing even during the Consecration. They put a show on each week. The homily was always soft - no messages about sin, confession, or wrongs. I do not remember once in 5 years that abortion was ever talked about or any other serious topics that cut into today’s culture…gay marriage, euthanasia, hell, mortal sin. There is not ONE crucifix, icon, statue, or religious looking item in the church. The cross on the alter was a wooden cross form void of Christ. The tabernacle had been moved to a room and few acknowledged this room. Not even the Stations of the Cross were recognizable - just 14 clay slabs on the wall.

As a fellow revert, I can only say Amen! You need to read “The Renovation Manipulation”.

A liturgical left liberal priest at a one local church has pulled out the kneelers, has a big glass fishbowl in the back for baptism and its also the only source of Holy Water. Everyone stands through the Consecration. He has done hambone showey things during the homily, like having God, in the voice of a Jewish Mother, interrupt him and say, “Frankie, boy, just tell the people its about love…”.

The music minister has a beautiful voice, but continues the Sanctus over and over again into the eucharistic liturgy. A faithful Catholic I know who insisted on kneeling and recieving Eucharist on the tongue was rebuked for ‘showing off’

I have just listened to a tape he made to explain our bishops letter enjoining the highest standards of our Eucharistic Faith on politicians and by the time he dissected it, using slick canon law loop holes, it became clear than anyone, as far as he is concerned can recieve Eucharist and the bishops statement applies to nobody.

I could go on and on. I was at First Friday mass and I guess at least a half hour of Eucharistic Benediction is mandated in this diocese on First Friday. Boy, there was no love in it. I felt his contempt in the way he handled the host, peremptorily sang Tantum Ergo and then walked out. It was clear from his body language he regards it as a big waste of time.

But we must love these priests, pray for them and pray for these congregations. And my own circumstances keep me humble; I am in an irregular marriage and have not been able to correct my condition. Still, I go to confession and I have decided, with care and circumspection after talking to my confessor, to recieve Holy Eucharist, but at Spanish Mass where my condition is not known and only on certain feasts.

This liberal priest points out that the Mayor of Rome recieves Holy Communion from the Pope even though he is publicly pro abortion and publicly pro homosexual in his politics.

This ignores the obvious; The Church is a firm but merciful, generous and wise teacher. The communion line is no time to fight over the Eucharist. Christ did not even turn away Judas.

But when Judas recieved the Eucharist, without faith, he became infected with Satan and it proved his death and undoing.

The faithful Catholic is to examine their conscience and turn themselves away.

When I left the Church for 20 yrs I only took Holy Communion once and that was at my Dad’s funeral and I was already begining to revert, though I did not know it.

It is so sad that so many Catholics want to protestantize our ancient, holy and beautiful faith. At my nephew’s first communion, my brother and his wife sat through the consecration like good Presbyterians.

Peace and Kindness. Love Christ in all His dimensions, but above all, Tantum Ergo, Sacramentum

Steve
 
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Exporter:
John Carrol,

I became Catholic at age 24. Now I am 73. I live in a middle-sized city in which there are 5 Catholic Churches.

This thread reminds me that in these 49 years, not one Parish Priest nor parishoner has been here to my home except for two men who came by years ago to ask me to pledge money to the building fund.

We go to Mass and leave Mass and never say more than ,“Hello, how are you”, to others. After 49 years I don’t know even one Catholic family.

Why I contenue to pray, to go to confession and attend Mass without the encouragement of other humans says to me…it must be the work of the Holy Spirit. Hang in there!
 
I have been to Masses with both dull and vibrant liturgies. I have found that regardless of the beauty of the liturgy, the Eucharist, the True Body and Blood always moves me more spiritually than the rest of the liturgy comibined. The liturgy is designed to point directly to Jesus in the Eucharist, and no matter how off course the liturgy points, the Eucharist is always there to be found. Always. The Eucharist, not the liturgy, is the summit of Catholic praise and worship. Even at Masses in which I am appalled by the horrible liturgy and lack of enthusiasm of parishioners, Christ is always there in the Eucharist.

Before I converted to Catholicism I knew that the Eucharist was precious and important, but that was only an intellectual knowledge. After joining the Church, I have come to really understand its power and the grace that flows from it. Looking from the outside of the Church at the inside, there really is no way to understand the power of the Eucharist and how it is so much more fulfilling than the rest of the liturgy. Without the Eucharist, liturgy appears to be the selling point of Catholicism when it isn’t.

Keep enduring the liturgy, and look forward to the day you can truly experience the Lord in the Eucharist.

Peace
 
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