It's NOT in the Bible, okay?

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LOL.

That’s just funny.

Chuck
its sometime really its just funny, more than 10 years ago I attended an assemblies of god service. the pastor was my neighbor, the sermon was its wrong for us to celebrate christmas because it has pagan origins. and during chistmas season the pastor gave a solicitation letter that they will sing christmas carols in front of our house for their church building. funny hah!:😃

rovimax
 
Let me see if I get you right…what your saying is, that, not everything christian is in the bible, but that’s OK, because it doesn’t say anywhere in the Bible that everything Christian has to BE in the bible…?

spanks hand I’m guilty…
🙂 Yeah, that’s it in a nutshell my friend.
lol…I’m totally the kind of person that needs to know how, why, when, where, I just do. I just cant believe something simply because someone tells me to do so. Like, a BIG one I just had was dealing with passover. and why we don’t celebrate it, when Christ clearly states its a feast that he wants us to do in his honor. ((still trying to wrap my head around the answer i got))
Good question, but I’ll shoot you a PM in answer because that will lead us off topic for sure. 👍
See, my first problem is I trust God, not man. If someone just comes up and says this is the way it is, without anything from scripture to back it up…its just…a little harder to believe, you know? Also, when trying to support my belief, you need to have supporting evidence…like I got into it pretty bad with this guy from the ‘world mission society of church’ and when it comes down to his: This is what Christ says… versus, well, this is what the CC teaches…
Well…that’s actually just fine and I am pretty much the same way, and it is one reason that I came home to my Catholic faith to begin with. (My Testimony)

I think you’ll find, as I have, that the Catholic Church has a scriptural basis, as well as Sacred Tradition, and Magisterial teaching for virtually everything we believe. That’s one of the great things about carefully reading the Catechism, set your Bible right beside it and then take the time to read the footnotes & scripture references. It’s one of the best Bible study sources I have ever found and is very much under rated by both Catholics and n-Cs.
idk it just drives me crazy sometimes…but im still new to all this so…
I know the feeling. PM or e-mail me if I can ever be of any help at all. The odds are good that I’ve been there and have the studies to prove it. 🙂
 
Lampo,

God’s word is Truth. The church is the pillar and foundation but it of itself is not truth. The church’s responsibility is to defend Truth: God’s word, the Holy Scriptures.
 
Lampo,

God’s word is Truth. The church is the pillar and foundation but it of itself is not truth. The church’s responsibility is to defend Truth: God’s word, the Holy Scriptures.
What you say is true and also Catholic teaching, but Catholic teaching doesn’t limit God only to the *written *word. We believe in the *entire *word of God. Both written *and *spoken. One way in which the Church upholds and defends the Truth is by being the authentic interpreter of scripture as promised by the Holy Spirit.
 
Lampo,

God’s word is Truth. The church is the pillar and foundation but it of itself is not truth. The church’s responsibility is to defend Truth: God’s word, the Holy Scriptures.
Please show me where that is specifically found in the Bible?

Jesus says that He is the truth in John 14:6 and if the Church is the pillar and ground of same then your interpretation goes somewhat beyond what is written…
 
What you say is true and also Catholic teaching, but Catholic teaching doesn’t limit God only to the *written *
word. **We believe in the *entire ***word of God. Both written *and *spoken. One way in which the Church upholds and defends the Truth is by being the authentic interpreter of scripture as promised by the Holy Spirit.Known as the Deposit of Faith. 🙂
 
“I should not believe the Gospel except on the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Augustine of Hippo, convert, bishop, theologian, Father and Doctor of the Church, Saint; endorsing the position that the promulgation of Scripture, the preservation of its integrity and identity, and the explanation of its meaning flows from the authority of the Catholic Church.
From the quotes at the top left of the page just now.
 
Lampo,

God’s word is Truth. The church is the pillar and foundation but it of itself is not truth. The church’s responsibility is to defend Truth: God’s word, the Holy Scriptures.
Two points:
  1. God’s Word includes both the oral tradition and the written tradition. You always ignore the former.
  2. The Church defends the Word of God from those who seek to:
    a. Ignore the Oral Tradition (as you do)
    b. Truncate the inspired canon by omitting certain books (as you have accepted)
    c. Add to God’s word (as Luther desired to do by adding the word “alone” to “faith”)
    d. Misinterpret the text of the scriptures (as you are wont to do).
So, yeah, we listen to the Church when it comes to knowing the Truth, and we reject the mere human traditions of Protestants who claim that the Bible is the sole rule of faith for the believer in part because IRONICALLY

THE BIBLE DOES NOT TEACH SOLA SCRIPTURA.
 
I would much appreciate it if someone one, (especially you who are n-Cs) would display and clarify for me just precisely where it is in the Word of God that it specifically states that everything that Christians believe and practice must be found within its pages.

This also is for some of you Catholics that come in here and all but demand to know where some Catholic teaching or practice is found in the Bible.

The reason I am posting this is because I have read the Bible (all 73 books of it!) many times and have yet to find anything that supports this idea. I have concluded that the Catholic Church is correct in teaching that the Bible does not say this and therefore it is error.

I want all of us Catholics to understand that this is a fundamental doctrinal error of some communities of n-C Christianity and so there is no reason to get distressed when someone comes at you with this stuff, because the fact of the matter is …it’s NOT in the Bible itself.
Mormon and Jehovah witness doctrines are not in the bible…What is your view of them?
 
Lampo,

God’s word is Truth. The church is the pillar and foundation but it of itself is not truth. The church’s responsibility is to defend Truth: God’s word, the Holy Scriptures.

Jesus’ church is the pillar and foundation of truth but, it of itself is not truth That’s like saying: God’s word is truth but it of itself is not truth. I’ve got to be honest with you: I just can’t seem to follow your newfangled logic. However, I am trying! Jesus’ church is the house of the living God, or perhaps it of itself is not the house of the living God? :confused: Paul meant it when he said:

“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.”

He meant it because he knew that God’s house is being guided by the spirit of truth, and that is why we can trust her leaders to which Jesus said: as the father has sent me so I send you. To trust Jesus’ established church is to trust the holy spirit.

In comparison, let’s look at the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution absolutely needs an authoritative body to interpret it. If the government relied on the Constitution as a self interpreted document, like protestants rely on the bible as a self interpreted document, we would have thousands of conflicting interpretations and a totally fractured Country, just as we see in the protestant world.

Of course, you are probably going to say, no doubt, as I would if I were in your place, that the Constitution is not infallible like the infallible word of God, but that matters not; the people interpreting the infallible word of God are not infallible. The infallible word of God needs an infallible Guide, and that guide is Jesus’ fallible church which is being guided by the infallible spirit of truth.

I will take a break from responding to your posts until you respond to my posts. 👍 Looking forward to your responses for the simple fact that I use to be right where you are now, and could not satisfactorily answer these questions. :):)🙂
 
Oop’s, overlooked this post. Yankee_drifter;5923212], you said:

**What I was asking joe, since people in Jesus’ day had only the Old Testament, did He ever tell anyone to go to the Rabbi- that only the Rabbi has the authority to interpret Scripture? No, you’re correct, Jesus never said any such thing.
**

Agreed.

Yet the roman catholic church says it alone has the authority to interpret Scripture. If you believe this, then why read the Bible? Was this why the Holy Scriptures were translated in Latin by order of the RCC and many couldn’t read it for themselves?

Yank, every non-RCC says it alone has the authority to interpret Scripture. If you believe this, then why read the Bible?

The RCC did/does not say this. Jesus endowed his church with said authority!!! The RCC encourages me to read Jesus’ word. But, I’m humble enough to know that the holy spirit wasn’t sent to me or any other one person to guide and interpret sacred scripture. The HS was sent to Jesus’ one church on Pentecost, and Jesus’ fallible church leaders, starting with the fallible Apostles, received all her power to do as Jesus did, (as the father has sent me so I send you) - from the infallible holy spirit.

The Holy Spirit indwells the newly converted Christian.The Bible says our bodies are a temple.1 Corinthians 6:19 says: What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

Agreed.

**I could not understand much of the Bible before I became a born-again Christian. Now my eyes are open and it makes sense. I am not leaning unto my own understanding but I submit to the Holy Spirit.
**

I can give you the name of about 25 people belonging to 25 different non-Catholic churches, who say: I could not understand much of the Bible before I became a born-again Christian. Now my eyes are open and it makes sense. I am not leaning unto my own understanding but I submit to the Holy Spirit, and each person claims that the other 24 people are misinterpreting sacred scripture. What’s wrong with this picture? No doubt the holy spirit dwells from within every born again Christian, guiding us on an individual bases, but the holy spirit has a unique relationship with the house of the living God and the pillar and foundation of truth which is the body of Christ Who is the head and savior of His church. What I realized as a former Lutheran was the fact that the holy spirit was guiding me to Jesus’ established church, where the fullness of truth can be found, thanks to my infallible guide, Who is the divine rudder of Jesus’ established church. Like I always say: to trust Jesus’ church is to trust the holy spirit.

**Does this mean I always understand passages? No. But I study, read commentaries, a Bible dictionary, ask a pastor, etc. I do not blindly accept everything my church teaches.
**

I don’t always understand certain passages and neither does the RCC as they duly admit, and I too read commentaries, the writings of the early church fathers, the catechism of the catholic church, Greek lexicons. The difference between you and me is starkly different: I obey the word, by obeying my church leaders and submitting to their authority:

Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

**One needs to be a Berean Christian. In Acts 17:11 we read about the noble bereans in Thessalonica who searched the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul and others taught were true. To see if it lined up with what God revealed in His Word.
**

Ahhh, a trick I used to pull out of my hat, to no avail. Luke wrote the Acts of the apostles circa 60 AD. Clearly he was referring to the OT prophecies that pointed to Christ, for the 27 bound books of the NT did not exist.

Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

**So to answer your question, Joe, if you and I disagree on something, instead of one of us saying my church is correct, go to the source of all Truth: God’s Word, the Holy Scriptures.

**

And my reply to you my friend is the same: when those 25 people (and the thousands of divided non-Catholic churches for that matter) - I spoke of, “go to the source of all Truth: God’s Word, the Holy Scriptures” —division ensues. Jesus’ church (comprised of fallible and sinful leaders) - is called the pillar and foundation of truth for the simple fact that she, as the bride of Christ, is the infallible guide, in perpetuity.

Romans 3:4 let God be true, but every man a liar.

Yes, all men are fallible, sinful liars, ergo the need for an infallible, sin free and truthful guide - the spirit of truth, sent to just one body of leaders, the church, as opposed to each individual Christian, 2000 years ago, on pentecost. You are basically aiding my polemical position.
 
I think Yankee Drifter is limiting the truth only to the written word of God.
I know, just as I did as a former non-Catholic. I wish he could realize that the bible tells us that Jesus gave us an authoritative church, comprised of fallible leaders, to teach and preach and be Jesus’ witnesses to the world, until the end of time, and this is only possible with an infallible guide, to which Jesus provided.

The bible as our sole authority would have been IMPOSSIBLE for the first 400 years of Christianity!!!
 
What I was asking joe, since people in Jesus’ day had only the Old Testament, did He ever tell anyone to go to the Rabbi- that only the Rabbi has the authority to interpret Scripture? No, you’re correct, Jesus never said any such thing. Yet the roman catholic church says it alone has the authority to interpret Scripture. If you believe this, then why read the Bible? Was this why the Holy Scriptures were translated in Latin by order of the RCC and many couldn’t read it for themselves?
Might help, yankee, if we clarify exactly the Church’s and the people’s relationship with Scripture.

The Holy Spirit is the primary interpreter of Scripture…even the Church professes this. But, the Church does not prohibit us from interpreting Scripture, all the while maintaining that the Church Herself retains sole authority to interpret Scripture.

Confusing? Well, it can be…unless you understand what is going on here. It’s a wonderful balance in divine inspiration and protection, earthly authority to define dogma, and privilege for the faithful to discern personal guidance and understanding.

The Holy Spirit is the author, inspirer, and protector of Scripture, and is also it’s interpreter. This you would likely agree with. But how does He do this practically? Through what instruments does He work? This is where we divide unfortunately, because non-Catholics have yet to acknowledge that the Church was established to guide us to Christ, teach us His teachings, be instruments of His grace. They have yet to see that not only were the apostles the first leaders of this Church, but that the leadership was to be perpetual until He comes again in glory for His flock. The Church is the earthly shepherd in Christ’s earthly absence.

Through the Church, the NT came to us. What non-Catholics also don’t acknowledge is that Christ revealed all that is needed for faith and morals to the apostles, and all of this revelation was preserved in both Tradition and Scripture, a union of oral and written teachings. The human inspiration had to be preserved alongside the written inspiration, because God understands the difference between dogmatic truth and personal enlightenment. He understands that there is His revelation on one hand, and how that revelation is made efficacious in an individual’s unique state in life on the other. The former is where the Church is given sole responsibility to preserve, protect and promulgate the teachings of Christ, through the power of the Spirit. The apostles and their ordained successors are entrusted with this deposit of faith, and as that deposit is found within the text of Sacred Scripture, it is for the Church to maintain authority in it’s interpretation.

The latter is where we, the lay believers, are given freedom and encouragement to interpret Scripture, within the framework of the former, that is the Church-interpreted, dogmatic deposit of faith, allowing the Spirit to guide us in our understanding of the teachings of Christ as they apply to our personal lives. Most non-Catholics can’t see the necessary divide between these two interpretive realms. In short, we are not given authority to interpret Scripture and define rules of faith and morals in Christianity - that is for the Church alone. We are given authority to interpret Scripture within that body of faith as revealed to, and interpreted by, the Church.

You may already know all this, and reject it outright. But I thought I’d clarify nonetheless, because it seems you may not be aware of this intricate balance of Spirit-led interpretation.
 
A question for any non-Catholic here at this thread:

Is the bible, authoritatively speaking, the self-interpreted Word of God? Just a yes or no please. 👍
 
A question for any non-Catholic here at this thread:

Is the bible, authoritatively speaking, the self-interpreted Word of God? Just a yes or no please. 👍
you offer a false dilemma

The principle “Scripture interprets Scripture” of hermeneutics (The Science and Art of Biblical Interpretation) ** is just one among many helpful principles **

Individual passages of Scripture must always be in harmony with Scripture as a whole. The biblical interpreter must keep in mind that all of Scripture — though communicated through various human instruments — has a single Author (God). And, of course, God does not contradict Himself.

It is right to say that no passage will ultimately contradict the rest of the canon, for there is a divinely inspired unity to the Bible. However, this does not mean that we should neglect near context interpretation in favor of distant context interpretation. What a writer means by a word or phrase should be evaluated in light of the sentence, the paragraph, the section, the book, the other books by the same writer, the other books from that time period, the other books in that “Testament” and the other books in the Bible – in that order! Like concentric circles around the bull’s-eye, the closer the context, the more weight we should give it. So a term used in a letter by Paul does not automatically mean the same as that term in Matthew or John or Ezekiel.

One exception to this hierarchy of correlation would be to go to a text evidently in the thoughts of the author prior to others that may technically be “closer contexts” but were unknown to the author. For example, when an NT writer is obviously leaning on an OT passage, that passage may be technically the most distant context, but it actually may be more helpful than another NT writer. So I’d look more carefully at the prophet Paul is quoting than Matthew’s use of the same term. We should correlate carefully.

 
Mormon and Jehovah witness doctrines are not in the bible…What is your view of them?
Irrelevant to this discussion, though I find it curious and ironic that an n-C would note the similarity between the Mormons and JWs & SS.

Wanna discuss that? Open your own thread just as the Forum Rules require.
 
I know, just as I did as a former non-Catholic. I wish he could realize that the bible tells us that Jesus gave us an authoritative church, comprised of fallible leaders, to teach and preach and be Jesus’ witnesses to the world, until the end of time, and this is only possible with an infallible guide, to which Jesus provided.

The Bible as our sole authority would have been IMPOSSIBLE for the first 400 years of Christianity!!!
👍 Exactly!
 
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