It's NOT in the Bible

[Jaboshua]

Babies and the mentally infirm often have no knowledge of right and wrong.

17 "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

.

Agreed

 

[po18guy]

This has been an interesting thread until the breakdown at the end. All I can say is I am now more convinced than ever that the Bible should be our only source for our Christian walk. Otherwise, you have chaos…perfectly evident in threads just like this.

It gives more reason to reject Christianity, since 30,000 denominations all disagree over the same 66 books. Atheists have a field day with this, and I agree with them.

 

[po18guy]

For all those bible aloneists in this thread: Does man live by bread alone? If not, by what does he live?

 

[MartinJordan]

It gives more reason to reject Christianity, since 30,000 denominations all disagree over the same 66 books. Atheists have a field day with this, and I agree with them.

Yes, that’s why Christianity desperately needs a Magesterium to decide when disagreements arise. Wait… Christianity does have a Magesterium!

On top of that, nowhere in the Bible does it say that it ALONE has the answers.

MJ

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Remain on the topic of the OP please

 

[174a]

Yes, that’s why Christianity desperately needs a Magesterium to decide when disagreements arise. Wait… Christianity does have a Magesterium!

On top of that, nowhere in the Bible does it say that it ALONE has the answers.

MJ

Doesn’t that depend on what the questions are?

Probably on spiritual matters the Bible has everything we need to know and if there are problems, and there are, then I believe they are down to our lack of understanding. After all the disciples had the same difficulty.

.

 

[MartinJordan]

Doesn’t that depend on what the questions are?

Probably on spiritual matters the Bible has everything we need to know and if there are problems, and there are, then I believe they are down to our lack of understanding. After all the disciples had the same difficulty.

.

Hi 174a. The trouble is, there was no Bible (that we have now) then. But what they did have was a Council lead by St. Peter to figure things out.

In the same way, with an unbroken line of Apostleship, we have the Magesterium that through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, can decide the disagreement and make the decision final. Because Jesus also gave told the Apostles that he will send the Holy Spirit. He knew very well without the Spirit, they will be “orphans”.

Of course without the unbroken line (read Tradition) there would have been no Bible!

So, when you say our lack of understanding, that also could be true so we need the “Council”.

Apologies for my layman style

MJ

 

[174a]

Hi 174a. The trouble is, there was no Bible (that we have now) then. But what they did have was a Council lead by St. Peter to figure things out.

In the same way, with an unbroken line of Apostleship, we have the Magesterium that through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, can decide the disagreement and make the decision final. Because Jesus also gave told the Apostles that he will send the Holy Spirit. He knew very well without the Spirit, they will be “orphans”.

Of course without the unbroken line (read Tradition) there would have been no Bible!

So, when you say our lack of understanding, that also could be true so we need the “Council”.

Apologies for my layman style

MJ

The problem of false teachers has been with us since the time of Christ, even into Old Testament times with false prophets. As you will know they are across all denominations and faiths. I don’t see how we can call ourselves Christians unless we follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. Here are some warnings from the Bible

Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits…

2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.

Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Hebrews 13:9 Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

In the theme of the thread there is a lot that is taught today that “is not in the Bible” and I feel we should heed the warning of scripture and follow only the teaching of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

.

 

[Saintlucy]

The problem of false teachers has been with us since the time of Christ, even into Old Testament times with false prophets. As you will know they are across all denominations and faiths. I don’t see how we can call ourselves Christians unless we follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. Here are some warnings from the Bible

Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits…

2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.

Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Hebrews 13:9 Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

In the theme of the thread there is a lot that is taught today that “is not in the Bible” and I feel we should heed the warning of scripture and follow only the teaching of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

.

 

[Jaboshua]

Yes, that’s why Christianity desperately needs a Magesterium to decide when disagreements arise. Wait… Christianity does have a Magesterium!

On top of that, nowhere in the Bible does it say that it ALONE has the answers.

MJ

All wisdom and knowledge is in Christ…it does say that I think.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

In the theme of the thread there is a lot that is taught today that “is not in the Bible” and I feel we should heed the warning of scripture and follow only the teaching of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
.

Hello 174a,

From the bold part above. Let’s see this “lot” one at a time:

1. ?

In Him.

 

[christosdavid]

Actually, that is not what it says. There is no limitation. It simply says all Scripture is good. It never says “and nothing else is”

Clearly up to the stage of the church’s development 2 Tim 3:16-17 is quite correct. The path to the truth and salvation can indeed be found within the pages of Scripture (though only the OT canon was fully penned).

“throughly furnished unto all good works”

sola scriptura never meant that other authorities could not be sought as supporting evidence of truth and salvation. simply that they must be held up to the light of God’s word and if found wanting could be dismissed.

Scripture, on the other hand, can never be dismissed. Even if not interpreted as a fundamentalist, Genesis must still teach true theology and Jonah have a real moral.

When Philip used Isaiah 53 to convert the Ethiopian Eunuch, the prophetic word was enough, when explained in the context of the suffering servant to proclaim the truth and salvation…

 

[stewstew03]

If you don’t mind an interjection the Trinity is easy to understand.

Let me explain from the Bible. The Bible tells us we are made in the image of God. We also learn we are a tripartite being comprising Body, Soul and Spirit. If we are in the image of God then God must be a tripartite being also and just as we are Body, Soul and Spirit so also with God who manifest himself in the flesh which is the body of God, this is in line with the divinity of Jesus. The Bible also tells us God is Spirit so no problem there and finally we learn that God is eternal.

Like us God is Body, Soul and Spirit, three in one and is “ONE GOD” the same as we are ‘one person’.

In His name.

.

Respectfully, this doesn’t pass the Sola Scriptura test because you didn’t cite one verse from the bible. You only provided your interpretation of the bible (your Tradition), and a Jehovah’s Witness would provide a much different perspective.

 

[Saintlucy]

The problem of false teachers has been with us since the time of Christ, even into Old Testament times with false prophets. As you will know they are across all denominations and faiths. I don’t see how we can call ourselves Christians unless we follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. Here are some warnings from the Bible

Matthew 7:15,16 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits…

2 Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth , and be turned aside to fables.

Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves . Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 Peter 3:16,17 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Hebrews 13:9 Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

In the theme of the thread there is a lot that is taught today that “is not in the Bible” and** I feel we should heed the warning of scripture and follow only the teaching of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.**

.

Then why not heed the warning of scripture and follow only the teaching of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ? It warns of heresy and division.

When Christ ascended into Heaven he left what would become the Magisterium of the Church; His apostles and their successors the bishops, through the laying on of hands. From Pentecost onwards, when the Holy Spirit descended on the first bishops and filled them with courage and gave them the gift of understanding, the Church has taught on matters of faith and morals in an unbroken line from that day to this. The Apostles taught their disciples, which included the Church Fathers and wrote epistles to the dioceses long before the canon was put together. The bishops carried on the Apostolic teaching and nothing has been added to since the New Testament as we know it came to be.

The apostles didn’t live in a vacuum. They taught every day for many years and it is obvious that they spoke about things that are not recorded in the New Testament. Some of which we know as tradition. St John says that, “But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written” John 21:25. That goes for Apostolic tradition also. If we knew everything that our Lord ever said or what the Apostles taught after Pentecost we wouldn’t be able to carry our bibles around with us. That is not to say that anything is missing from Sacred Scripture.

There have been great heresies that were put down by the Church but the greatest of these came at the time of the Reformation with the disregard of apostolic tradition and the beginning of self interpretation of scripture. Now, instead of the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church, we have thousands of sects, all interpreting scripture as they see it.
Christ promised to protect the teaching authority of the Church. “He who hears you, hears me; he who rejects you rejects me, he who rejects me, rejects Him who sent me” (Luke 10. 16). That is IN the bible.

 

[Luvtosew]

For all those bible aloneists in this thread: Does man live by bread alone? If not, by what does he live?

Jesus makes it clear in John 6 he is the Bread of Life, and Peter at the end says to Jesus,
6;68 You have the words of life.

 

[Farsight001]

Jesus makes it clear in John 6 he is the Bread of Life, and Peter at the end says to Jesus,
6;68 You have the words of life.

You didn’t answer the question.

 

[174a]

Then why not heed the warning of scripture and follow only the teaching of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ? It warns of heresy and division.

When Christ ascended into Heaven he left what would become the Magisterium of the Church; His apostles and their successors the bishops, through the laying on of hands. From Pentecost onwards, when the Holy Spirit descended on the first bishops and filled them with courage and gave them the gift of understanding, the Church has taught on matters of faith and morals in an unbroken line from that day to this. The Apostles taught their disciples, which included the Church Fathers and wrote epistles to the dioceses long before the canon was put together. The bishops carried on the Apostolic teaching and nothing has been added to since the New Testament as we know it came to be.

The apostles didn’t live in a vacuum. They taught every day for many years and it is obvious that they spoke about things that are not recorded in the New Testament. Some of which we know as tradition. St John says that, “But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written” John 21:25. That goes for Apostolic tradition also. If we knew everything that our Lord ever said or what the Apostles taught after Pentecost we wouldn’t be able to carry our bibles around with us. That is not to say that anything is missing from Sacred Scripture.

There have been great heresies that were put down by the Church but the greatest of these came at the time of the Reformation with the disregard of apostolic tradition and the beginning of self interpretation of scripture. Now, instead of the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church, we have thousands of sects, all interpreting scripture as they see it.
Christ promised to protect the teaching authority of the Church. “He who hears you, hears me; he who rejects you rejects me, he who rejects me, rejects Him who sent me” (Luke 10. 16). That is IN the bible.

Bold. I do.

I posted scripture that warns against heretics. Obviously heresy is a very real danger and Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 150-211) who was an eminent teacher in the early Church actually wrote in his Stromata about the abuse of Scripture by certain heretics in his day.

.

 

[174a]

Respectfully, this doesn’t pass the Sola Scriptura test because you didn’t cite one verse from the bible. You only provided your interpretation of the bible (your Tradition), and a Jehovah’s Witness would provide a much different perspective.

Do I need to post scripture references for Christians that say we are made in the image of God etc?

Here are three scriptures from the Old Testament.

Isa 48:16 Come closer, and listen to this. From the beginning I (Jehovah) have told you plainly what would happen." And now the Sovereign LORD (Jesus) and his Spirit (Holy Spirit) have sent me with this message.

Isa 61:1 The Spirit (Holy Spirit) of the Sovereign LORD (Jesus) is upon me, for the LORD (Jehovah) has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me (Jesus) to comfort the brokenhearted and to proclaim that captives will be released and prisoners will be freed.

Eze 39:29 And I (Jehovah) will never again turn my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit (Holy Spirit) upon the people of Israel. I, the Sovereign LORD (Jesus), have spoken!"

.

 

[stewstew03]

Do I need to post scripture references for Christians that say we are made in the image of God etc?

Here are three scriptures from the Old Testament.

Isa 48:16 Come closer, and listen to this. From the beginning I (Jehovah) have told you plainly what would happen." And now the Sovereign LORD (Jesus) and his Spirit (Holy Spirit) have sent me with this message.

Isa 61:1 The Spirit (Holy Spirit) of the Sovereign LORD (Jesus) is upon me, for the LORD (Jehovah) has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me (Jesus) to comfort the brokenhearted and to proclaim that captives will be released and prisoners will be freed.

Eze 39:29 And I (Jehovah) will never again turn my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit (Holy Spirit) upon the people of Israel. I, the Sovereign LORD (Jesus), have spoken!"

.

Well, sure there’s a Holy Spirit, but it’s just a force that God uses to accomplish His will, right? Your scripture verses have not come close to proving that there is One God in Three Persons.

Please provide book, chapter, and verse that will clearly explain to me this central doctrine of our Christian faith.

As I read it, scripture says that God is only one; and warns against gods (plural).

[BIBLEDRB]Deuteronomy 6:4[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Galatians 3:20[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 8:4-6[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 42:8[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Exodus 20:2-3[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 45:5[/BIBLEDRB]

And Jesus* never* referred to God as a deity of plural persons. I mean, couldn’t He have said something like “We are one God in three persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” - or is God a God of Confusion?? Couldn’t one of His apostles/disciples said something close to this in scripture??

I look forward to your reply.

 

[christosdavid]

Well, sure there’s a Holy Spirit, but it’s just a force that God uses to accomplish His will, right? Your scripture verses have not come close to proving that there is One God in Three Persons.

Please provide book, chapter, and verse that will clearly explain to me this central doctrine of our Christian faith.

As I read it, scripture says that God is only one; and warns against gods (plural).

[BIBLEDRB]Deuteronomy 6:4[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Galatians 3:20[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 8:4-6[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 42:8[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Exodus 20:2-3[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 45:5[/BIBLEDRB]

And Jesus* never* referred to God as a deity of plural persons. I mean, couldn’t He have said something like “We are one God in three persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” - or is God a God of Confusion?? Couldn’t one of His apostles/disciples said something close to this in scripture??

I look forward to your reply.

just my 2 c worth, but the word translated God in Deut 6:4 is actually plural (Elohim - gods).

The God(s) are/is one - YHWH

By the time it was translated into Greek, post-exilic Judaism was strongly monotheist and the Greek reflects this in the choice of the singular THEOS for God.

The tetragrammaton YHWH as *ego eimi * * which are the 7 sayings of Jesus in John’s Gospel. I AM the light of the world etc…

Besides, if you merely want a demonstration of the Trinity in Scripture (not the word itself, thats impossible and anachronistic) just look to the Jordan and witness the baptism of Jesus, accompanied by the voice of God declaring Jesus his Son and also the Holy Spirit seen descending on Jesus in the form of a dove…*