I've been born again to a living hope through Jesus Christ. I have an inheritance in heaven that is imperishable. By God's power, it is being guarded

  • Thread starter Thread starter mmmcounts
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
wmscott said:
I do want to add that this was thirty some odd years ago, and the attitude has changed somewhat now. When I go to visit my parents (Southern Baptists), I attend Sunday services with them and then go to Mass afterwards. No one there knows I am Catholic, I do not hear the stuff that used to go on. I do not agree with their interpretations on Sacred Scripture; however, I just let it go at that time. Although my sister still holds her prejudices even today.
Click to expand...
Wisdom plods along slowly while bigotry and ignorance flash like lightning. We can only pray that their eyes are opened.
 
captainmike said:
let’s suppose you murder 100 people, never go to church another day in your life, and intentionally and stubbornly refuse to ask for forgiveness for the murders (including refusing the opportunity to repent on your deathbed).
Click to expand...
I won’t do that. And it’s not because I’m such a great person. It’s because the Holy Spirit is within me, has changed me, and is changing me. God actually has a great deal of influence on my life. My willful cooperation in terms of giving Him control has something to do with it, but if you really want to go back to the root cause, it’s all God- who first loved me. Once you tie all of this together, it adds up to one simple conclusion.

I won’t do that.
where do you spend eternity?
Click to expand...
Me? I’ll spend eternity with God. I will always be a sinner who is undeserving of this, but by God’s grace, I get what I don’t deserve. By His mercy, I don’t get what I do deserve.
 
mmmcounts said:
I won’t do that. And it’s not because I’m such a great person. It’s because the Holy Spirit is within me, has changed me, and is changing me. God actually has a great deal of influence on my life. My willful cooperation in terms of giving Him control has something to do with it, but if you really want to go back to the root cause, it’s all God- who first loved me. Once you tie all of this together, it adds up to one simple conclusion.
Click to expand...
Do you have the ability to reject God and His mercy?
 
po18guy said:
Do you have the ability to reject God and His mercy?
Click to expand...
Please allow me to expound for a moment on the difference between a servant and a slave. It requires a brief story as well.

A couple of months ago, I introduced myself to a random guy and began a game of pool with him. Then I do what I often do with people I’ve just met: I asked him two questions in succession. Question one: What is your name? This guy is from Poland, so it took longer than usual for me to get it right. On the fifth try, though, I said, “Ok, good. Nice. So [person], who are you?”

I love the variety of responses this gets. Some are quite memorable. He gave me an amused look and said, “Well, I am a father. And I am a husband. And I am…a slave.” I took a little extra time lining up a shot so I could think about that, and then I said “Ah-hm. And…what do you mean by that?”

He said this: “Well, I am a Christian. I am a follower of Jesus Christ.” I responded with “Cool, sweet. Me too.” Then he added: “The reason I say ‘I am a slave’ is because it is different from being a servant. A servant has a choice.”

Now, the usual reason for bringing up servants and slaves is to talk about who gets paid fair wages and who doesn’t get wages at all. That is absolutely relevant to some of the previous posts concerning merit: If you see yourself as a servant, you receive just wages for your good deeds because you deserve them. God has an obligation to give you what you deserve. If you are a slave, the only just wages you deserve are death. By God’s mercy, you don’t receive any wages at all. By God’s grace, the slave does receive something- but it is not a wage. It is not something owed to the slave. It is pure grace. It is a gift.

My new Polish friend brought this up for a different reason, though. I do not believe he was a hard determinist, nor do I believe he brought this up in order to argue against the existence of free will. It’s just a slightly different perspective of who we are in Christ. We are not servants (though some of you sure act like that’s what you want). A Christian is a slave of Christ. Another difference between slaves and servants, besides wages, is the fact that a servant is free to leave the employ of his boss at any time. The boss does not own him. All he asks for is two week’s notice. (J/k, j/k). A slave, on the other hand, is owned by the master.

A slave, in the conventional sense of the word, is not free. This does not in any way imply that a slave (seriously- like a real slave) has no free will. Of course a slave has free will, just like everyone else. But a slave is not free. That is the defining mark of a slave, and that is what makes him or her a slave in the first place. “Slave” equals “not free.”

And now, finally, I’ll answer your question in this manner. I am a slave of Christ. Free will is not any less of a reality for me than it is for one person enslaved to another person, but along with this I must affirm the fact that I am a slave and not a servant.

I was not always a slave of Christ. I knew the whole deal for as long as I can remember. I think my first memory involved my dad reading from the Bible. But for a long time and on many separate occasions, I exercised the choice to reject God and His mercy.

That’s changed now, though. I became a Christian. The Holy Spirit now indwells me and sanctifies me, and I am a slave of Christ. Again, this does not imply that free will is of no consequence to me. But as far as your specific question goes, I can only say this: I am a slave.

Edit- I have to ask: What is “potentially the most unchurched state?” Is it Oregon?
 
One quick addendum- now is as good a time as any to mention this. In response to a question by “distracted” in post 67…essentially, “Why do good works as a Protestant- why not just ‘have faith’ and party hearty?” Something along those lines…

The answer to this question is the same as my answer in the previous post. I am a slave.

The fact that I love God certainly plays a huge role in that. My love for God (and, more to the point, the love He first had for me) is the reason why I am a slave of Christ in the first place. Love in involved here at the most fundamental level. But the response that gets the job done best is this: I can’t assent to the merit system because I am a slave, not a servant. And if you’re wondering why in the world I would obey the master in the absence of the merit system, it is for that very same reason: I am a slave, not a servant.
 
mmmcounts said:
That’s changed now, though. I became a Christian. The Holy Spirit now indwells me and sanctifies me, and I am a slave of Christ. Again, this does not imply that free will is of no consequence to me. But as far as your specific question goes, I can only say this: I am a slave.
Click to expand...
However, if you now cannot reject God, neither do you have the ability to choose Him out of love. Every slave can choose to rebel against his master, and leave. Can you?

How does this square with 2 Peter 2:20? I guess you are a follower of Jean Calvin?
Edit- I have to ask: What is “potentially the most unchurched state?” Is it Oregon?
Click to expand...
Next door in Washington
 
Sword_Brethren said:
Is that pride? Are you going to be sitting at the right of God, too?
Click to expand...
Sword Brethren, I love your sword signature and your name. Looks like a good defense for our church. 👍 Do you like this signature:
**Deo Deuce Ferro Comitante **means, “With God as my leader, and my sword as my companion.” 👍
 
Louie1983 said:
I agree they always seem to forget this, i just don’t get how they can accept the faith alone argument. It just doesn’t work!
Click to expand...
yeah, what kinda sense does it make…

it’s like saying: “i can disregard everything [else?] Jesus said and just have faith… and i will make it into Heaven…”

hmmm… there’s some logic for ya… :hmmm::banghead:

give up your possessions and follow Me?

no thanks, Jesus…too hard. I’ll just rely on faith like You said… somewhere… i know its somewhere… in that bible of yours… that Bible you didn’t write but is all i need for salvation anyhow…

😃
 
distracted said:
yeah, what kinda sense does it make…

it’s like saying: “i can disregard everything [else?] Jesus said and just have faith… and i will make it into Heaven…”

hmmm… there’s some logic for ya… :hmmm::banghead:

give up your possessions and follow Me?

no thanks, Jesus…too hard. I’ll just rely on faith like You said… somewhere… i know its somewhere… in that bible of yours… that Bible you didn’t write but is all i need for salvation anyhow…

😃
Click to expand...
Or i can go kill 100 people right now but it doesn;t matter because i have faith and i’ll get to heaven!

Or how there are 30,000 denominations teachings different doctrines…
 
Louie1983 said:
Or i can go kill 100 people right now but it doesn;t matter because i have faith and i’ll get to heaven!

Or how there are 30,000 denominations teachings different doctrines…
Click to expand...
no protestant (@ CAF) has yet to effectively refute the lack of logic osas entails… not to me anyway…

**mmm has declined to answer my post (67)… **

he didn’t comment on how “the body of belivers” may mean more than just Whoever claims to be a Christian… that being a christian may involve following Christ’s representatives on EArth (priests, pope…)

no comment on how ETERNAL punishment is mentioned in St Mt 25;31… as being a consequences of NOT doing works of charity… (Some scripture psgs mention punishment and some eternal punishment… This one mentions ***eternal punishment… ***)

he does’t respond to my answers to his questions on “deserving Heaven” and the one he asked about God “paying” us for doing right…

he makes no comment about how doing “all” Christ commands might involve belonging to His one true Church…

hate to say this but get SO tired of this kind ofthing… :rolleyes: OSAS’ers bringing up some subject and ranting and raving on it… and then not responding to your response…

:hmmm:

but then maybe its a good sign…

maybe it means they don’t disagree… 🙂
 
distracted said:
no protestant (@ CAF) has yet to effectively refute the lack of logic osas entails… not to me anyway…

**mmm has declined to answer my post (67)… **

he didn’t comment on how “the body of belivers” may mean more than just Whoever claims to be a Christian… that being a christian may involve following Christ’s representatives on EArth (priests, pope…)

no comment on how ETERNAL punishment is mentioned in St Mt 25;31… as being a consequences of NOT doing works of charity… (Some scripture psgs mention punishment and some eternal punishment… This one mentions ***eternal punishment… ***)

he does’t respond to my answers to his questions on “deserving Heaven” and the one he asked about God “paying” us for doing right…

he makes no comment about how doing “all” Christ commands might involve belonging to His one true Church…

hate to say this but get SO tired of this kind ofthing… :rolleyes: OSAS’ers bringing up some subject and ranting and raving on it… and then not responding to your response…

:hmmm:

but then maybe its a good sign…

maybe it means they don’t disagree… 🙂
Click to expand...
Possibly, or they just have no argument.
 
distracted said:
but they choose to ignore because they know i am right… 🙂

is that what you agree with? 🙂
Click to expand...
yes possibly OR they have no argument and are too proud to admit that your right (or they could be asleep - what time is it over there?)
 
Louie1983 said:
yes possibly OR they have no argument and are too proud to admit that your right (or they could be asleep - what time is it over there?)
Click to expand...
i wish i could be fortunate to be able to sleep so long… :sleep:

that post (67) was a few days ago… 😃
 
Most all who consider themselves “protestant” do not believe in OSAS. Just food for thought… That’s probably a major factor in why you’re not seeing many passionate defenses here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top