“Work out your salvation with fear and trembling” is understood by me within the context of Lordship Salvation, so please don’t paint me with the Free Grace brush.
i don’t u/stand this…Lordship salvation (?) probably because i am not able to take your comment “in context” which reminds me:
The Bible, if taken out of context, can really mess up a person’s mind/soul. The Bible belongs in the context of the Church
I need confirmation from you that this “working out” does not entail you earning the salvation that Jesus paid .
we are saved by grace. Grace comes from doing good and avoiding evil. If a person never worked on his salvation, Spent his life only working for $ and the things of this world, he would end up in Hell, not because he did those things but because he didn’t do many holy things, things necessary for salvation, things Jesus tells us to do. If a person does everything Jesus says, he will get to Heavne… but… uh… i doubt many people do everything Jesus says… which is why Jesus said that the way to eternal life is narrow and there are few who find it… Many will try to enter Heaven but not be strong enough (***St Lk 13:23…). ***If you do everything Jesus said this = WORKS… and so, in a sense, one could say that a person does need to work his way into Heaven… It is NOT easy getting into Heaven… I don’t know why more pepole don’t speak on these, admittedly “painful” things Jesus said… about the few who are saved… Have you been to the site about St Leonard and “the few who are saved”? You can google it… very interesting… and scary.
Such a person is not relying on God’s grace but on their own efforts and merits. But that’s not what you do, right? You rely on your efforts and merits…which are themselves gifts straight from God. .
i doubt i am u/standing this either…
the end result is something that means the same thing as what I just said, it makes no difference.
I would not dare to say that what i am about to say is an exact paraphrase of the Church’s teachings but again, one kind of DOES have to work his way to Heavne. It is work to do things JEsus’s way… If a person reads the entire NT, he will see just how difficult it is to do everything Jesus says to do… give up everything?? to Follow him??? I don’t know anyone who has given up absolutely everything to follow Jesus… True, i don’t know very many pepole… but i don’t think you know too many either… who are giving up all material things, etc… to follow Jesus… all worldly relationships… .(& they all seem to be worldly these days…
) well, that’s down-right un-American… and the whole world is included here… because, well… for one thing, the world is pretty american-ized…
. Just describe the single cause of salvation, as you understand it, that gets you from A to B.
the single cause of salvation is doing everything Jesus said and btw: Jesus said far more than the Bible says he said… and it says that in the Bi ble… so we NEED His Church…
Doing what He commands involves WORK because, as stated, it is WORK to do what he wants… it is work to be different from what one is naturally… it is difficult (work) to give up things we love (material things, worldly relationships…) … As someone in AA has said (well, that’s where i 1st heard it): the longest journye you will ever take is the one between your head & your heart… You cn know what Jesus says (head) but doing it whole-heartedly (heart) is a different sstory… this is why it is so hard to get into Heaven… peple don’t always work so hard on making that difficult painful journey…
Perhaps when you’re done with this, you’ll approach future Protestant-Catholic discussions a little differently. If you’re not willing to put works/efforts/merit in Point A and the Protestants don’t put it there either, maybe you won’t have quite as much to disagree over. If you do stick to the Merit system for Point A, though, you’ll notice continued problems.
problems???
So with God’s help, you earn the salvation that Jesus already paid for
Jesus does not do anything a good father would not do. For example, if a young child breaks the neighbr’s window, a good father isn’t going to just say, “Oh, Junior, how wonderful. You told Mr. Jones across the street that you are sorry! Now go on and play, Daddy will pay for the window…” don’t think so. He loves his child and wants to teach him the value of being careful of others’ property (etc, etc)…& he also doesn’t want him taking sin lightly (etc…) He accepts that his son is sorry but makes him pay (with his puny allowance) for the window… Maybe it will take a long time for him to pay off the huge debt with his puny allowance… but he has to because then he will be free of guilt, will have learned things… become a better person and etc… Forgiveness is just the 1st step to getting to Heaven… we have to mean it when we say we are sorry. We also have to fix the damage our sins have caused…
So it seems the real question is: How do we do this? Well, for one, we spend time with Jesus in the Real Presence… where He can do as He wants with us…
we sacrifice… we deny ourselves, etc… All this involves obtaining Jesus’ help… depending on Him…
letting HIM do things in us, through us, etc… He does most everything but we must cooperate… we must submit ourselves to Him 100%… NOt easy but i know one thing: sin makes it 100 times harder (or more so, depending on the gravity of the sin)… it is not so easy as it sounds… to cooperate w/ Jesus…
i know this from that best teacher of all, Experience…
