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thirdn6
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What qualifies you then to be a rev?
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COLOS
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SwizzleStick
Guest
I’m just trying to pray so that I remain charitable and patient toward you and the OP. I was hoping I was setting a good example for others to also be charitable. Are you judging me for that? Are you saying praying is wrong? It really doesn’t matter, since I answer to Him and not you. You go right ahead and judge. I am serene now because He has granted me serenity and you cannot change that.
God bless you, thecoach.
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placido
Guest
Let’s say a believer is excommunicated (Matt 18:17). He collects some bucks, buys a Bible and starts his own congregation under the nearest tree. Is he and his congregation still part of the Body of Christ?
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thecoach
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Well your church disregards scripture when it suits it anyway…so why should I be surprised?
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thecoach
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If he was every baptised…and if he fulfills Pauls’s stated requirements for salvation, then YES. His excommunication is only from a body with no real authority, so its effect on his soul is nill. It is Chrisy alone that saves. We are baptized in the Body of Christ, not into the magesterium.
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thirdn6
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He’d left. Maybe he went looking for that woman priest and commune with her. Anyway, they’re both believers…
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thecoach
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If you want to pray, then go ahead…not for public display however. Jesus warned against such displays.
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cathopologist
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Ya think? Imagine, if a similar post like this was in a Protestant forum. And someone announces, “I’ve officially become a Catholic”.This thread is practically an invitation for Catholic apologists to have a go.
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panoikei
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So coach, then you are agaist public prayer in congress, counsel meetings, and any assembly…that would extend to worship. You statement goes well beyond reason. It’s a hateful hurl at a faithful Catholic praying for you and others. This is not really public if you are anonymous. So then post your real names and addresses if you want to make this claim. Don’t really do it…I’m merely making a point.
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Tietjen
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You’re the one who brought this example up. If you don’t want to be like those who only come twice a year to Mass, then don’t be. Catholicism won’t make you become this way since this is NOT what the Church wants of it members.
Is this Biblical? How is it that you are able to justify in your mind that leaving the Church God has given us is the answer to forming a relationship with Him? Please point out in scripture where it directs believers to reject the Church and independently come to God seeking an individual and unique relationship with Him. It doesn’t. What the Bible does say is that the Church was given the authority and responsibility to lead men to Christ in the relationship that God intended. NOT in a “this feels good to me” way of doing things.
As a creature, how do you conceive the possibility that you know better than God or the Church He established what is the best way in which to enter a relationship with Him? What insight has He given you that He has denied to billions (trillions?) of others before you?
You need to know that the people here aren’t an angry mob. The people here are simply responding to your declaration. You who have been exposed to the Church, taught within the Church, and I assume have received the sacraments of the Church, are publicly rejecting it. That is a very serious matter. As a brother in Christ, we (the angry mob) do not want you to face the possibilities that exist outside of God’s Church or God’s graces. We (the angry mob) would just as diligently try to persuade you to leave a burning building or avoid stepping off a cliff. Some would do so using BOLD type, some would use exclamation marks**!** Don’t confuse that concern for anger. It’s just the opposite. It’s called love.The tone around here is like that of an angry mob.
I would repeat my suggestion for you. I ask that rather than walking away from the Church, you study it more closely. Take your largest issue with the Church and put it under a microscope to see if what you believe is a fault actually is what is taught. I speak from experience on this issue. I left the Church for many years at one point over MY misunderstanding over several things that I THOUGHT were taught incorrectly by the Church. It wasn’t until I took a much closer look at those things, sacred scripture, and Church doctrine that I found out that I was misunderstanding the Church’s position. Thankfully, God gave me the time and opportunity to realize my error and return. Don’t take the chance that He will do the same in your case. Stop now, and examine things more closely. God bless.
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SwizzleStick
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I’m curious to know how you know what the Church teaches? And, why you even think about it if you are not Catholic? It appears that a lot of other people have opportunities to discuss religion a lot more than I do and I guess to also try to evangelize. I don’t really think about other faiths, because I have no reason to do so. I have no idea what most other religions believe or don’t believe, nor do I have much opportunity to discuss it with anyone. In fact, I never had ANY opportunity to discuss religion with anyone before I joined CAF. I am a cradle Catholic who was raised in and now also lives in a very Catholic community. In general, in day-to-day life, I just don’t have the opportunity because most of the people I know are already Catholic. So, how do you think you know so much about Catholics? I’m curious.
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placido
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Your statement was strightforward that ALL BELIEVERS are the Body of Christ. What I want to know from you is: 1) He believes, 2) He disobeys the Church, and 3) He is excommunicated (but he still believes). The question is: is he still a member of the Body of Christ? If no, then not ALL believers are the Body of Christ; If yes, what then is the meaning of Matt 18:17?
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thecoach
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Because as a former Catholic, I probably studied ten times as much about it as you, especially when I used to defend the faith.Want to ask snide questions, you will get snide answers.
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SwizzleStick
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Thank you, but I really don’t need your permission to pray.
Do you ever pray in public? I have to assume that as “Rev. John” you pray and probably also lead prayer during a worship service in public? Is that not something you should do or is it only for me not to do because I am a Catholic? Hmm.
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Tietjen
Guest
Actually…
By bring this issue up and placing yourself outside of it as a means of defending your decision to leave the Church, you have created a situation where you were in fact declaring that the Church somehow approves of this situation. This brother is of course not the case and somewhat sets up a strawman when used as a reason to leave the Church. The sins of fellow Catholics (whether they be real or imagined) should not be the basis for your departure. Either you believe God’s Word or your reject It. I speak of Jesus Christ and refer to His giving His Church authority OVER man. If you reject Christ’s authority, then walk away. However, I doubt that this is actually the case. I believe that you simply were not taught very well (as I was in a similar situation during my younger years). Perhaps this whole thing could be better understood if you took it upon yourself to study and seek out what the Church actually teaches rather than assuming the worst or believing those who would delight in seeing you walk away from God’s Church. God bless.
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thecoach
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You know what, youre right. I misread what I perceived as your intent, and apologize.Thank you, but I really don’t need your permission to pray.
Do you ever pray in public? I have to assume that as “Rev. John” you pray and probably also lead prayer during a worship service in public? Is that not something you should do or is it only for me not to do because I am a Catholic? Hmm.
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SwizzleStick
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It wasn’t meant to be a snide question. I just wanted to know how you know about the Faith. You have answered. Thank you.
I am the first to admit that perhaps you do know more about it than I do. It is wonderful that you have studied the Faith so much. It is a treasure that one can spend a lifetime learning about and still not see every facet in the gem that it is. Too bad you have apparently stopped looking and pointing out the beauty that is there to others.
Dona Nobis Pacem
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thecoach
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I found what I was looking for, thanks…And I apologize for the snide thing too.
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SwizzleStick
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Apology accepted. God bless you.
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