Jack T. Chick:Anti Catholicism at it's worst

[jmm08]

CONTINUED

Father Damien. Another Roman Catholic witness that touched my life is Father Damien.

To me, Father Damien is one of the most convincing proofs that the Holy Eucharist is the Body of Christ (and not symbolic). Because he sacrificed his life in priestly service. He couldn’t have been an idolater (as some Protestants call Catholic Adoration of the Eucharist). Father Damien poured out his own life as a living sacrifice in the full measure of Agape love as our Lord described.
“Of all the pulpits from which human voice is ever sent forth, there is none from which it reaches so far as from the grave.” – John Ruskin, The Seven Lamps of Architecture, 1849

Father Damien means more to me because I heard his story for the first time while standing there in Kalaupapa near his grave. I suppose it was a Holy moment in my life that took years for me to more fully comprehend.

One very big Catholic witness was when I went on a tour in Hawaii in 1976 including a day-long trip to the Kalaupapa leper colony. At the time I had never heard anything about him. I heard about Father Damien (aka Joseph de Veuster) from a leper, while I was not standing far from Father Damien’s grave. Unspoken words were loud enough in my mind.

John 15:13 “No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.”

Father Damien died from leprosy in Hawaii. He had buried hundreds of lepers. Father Damien had the penultimate degree of Christian love for his mission field. Even though he was dead, Father Damien took the initiative to also tell me of his love by sowing a seed that sprouted again and again, through leper after leper, through heart after heart, waiting years after years, until the leper told me his story. The story couldn’t have been framed any better or more indelibly. I am afraid of heights, and I had to ride a mule down a narrow switchback trail along very steep sea cliffs - the world’s tallest - just to get there and back.

The State of Hawaii did its best to recognize Father Damien’s Sainthood with its placement in 1969 of Father Damien’s statue into the National Statuary Hall Collection (located in US Capital House connecting corridor, first floor). Just imagine that - a statue of a Catholic Saint in our US Congress. Subsequently, the Catholic Church began to increase its recognition of Father Damien. Father Damien is blessed at this time (two steps out of three to be Roman Catholic Saint). You know something? When Blessed Father Damien gets to be a Saint, our nation’s capital will start to look a little bit like a Roman Catholic Church (with St. Father Damien’s wonderful and very unique statue already inside it). Isn’t that going to be a miracle? Could it count towards his Sainthood?

Benedictine Sisters on Linton Hall Road. It is an obvious fact to open-minded Christians living in Prince William County that their ministry always was and continues to be one of the most significant ministries in our County (BARN, etc.). I once attended a workshop with the Benedictine Sisters. At the workshop, I was quite convinced how much the Benedictine Sisters loved Jesus. And how they experience the Presence of Christ by faith while they pray the Psalms with Jesus.

Since these precious Roman Catholic brothers and sisters are Christians and not idol worshippers, Jack Chick must be wrong in labeling them as idol worshippers. I accept the spiritual fruit of their lives as evidence that the Roman Catholic teaching about the Eucharist is correct.

Note (12/10/2004): It is a rather amazing coincidence that the tabernacle in the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception’s Crypt Church is just in front of a mosaic titled “Christ the Good Shepherd”. On August 26, 2004, I spent about an hour next to that tabernacle and looking at the mosaic.

 

[cestusdei]

I have an extensive collection of chick tracts. Including some out of print and hard to find ones. They are actually worth money. I use them with my youth and we all discuss them and laugh at them.

 

[cestusdei]

Xenos,
As an ex-evangelical and minister I can say this: what chick says evangelicals often believe secretly. He just says it out loud. At world youth day many evangelicals gathered to protest the Pope and try and convert catholic children. Without parental consent mind you. When was the last time catholics did that to an evangelical event? We are here learning how to defend ourselves. Apparently that worries you. I know it does many evangelicals. They don’t like CA. It’s bad for business. I think you need to clean your own house first. When we are no longer targeted by evangelicals then we can shift our focus elsewhere.

 

[Katholikos]

Xenos:

My friends, As an Evangelical Christian, let me help you out a bit here.

Tell me, friend, which one of the thousands of “evangelical” churches – all with different beliefs, but each claiming to teach the absolute truth – do you belong to?

I can show you a regular poster here that identifies himself in his profile as a former Evangelical and now proud catholic. His M. O. is to ask innocent sounding questions about what Evangelicals think, then when he gets an answer, pounces on those views with a glee that would make Jack Chick glow with pride.

What you mean is, he proves you wrong and that makes you mad . Please provide his screen name! I don’t want to miss reading his posts – or your attempts to answer them.

Look through these forums. You will see so much anger, hatred, and pride in the belief that you are the “only” true Church that it should make you cry.

Pride, yes. Anger and hatred, no.

That of course, would depend on whether or not you really ARE the only true Church.

Check the Catholic Church out for yourself. Study the history of Christianity and the history of the Bible. No other Church is 2,000 years old and can trace its beginnings in an unbroken continuum back to Christ and the Apostles. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. All “evangelical” Protestant churches were founded in or after the 16th century by mere men. Most modern churches are splits born in the 19th or 20th century.

Where is you love for others? Where is your concern for Evangelicals?

I am a former “evangelical” – I love Protestants but I don’t love their attacks upon the Catholic Church nor their false teachings.

Where is your concern for JW’s, rather than just trying to keep them from unsuspecting Catholics? Evangelicals have innumerable ministries that attempt to reach these people for Christ. Where is YOUR concern for them?

O God, I thank you that I am not like these Catholics . . . (Lk 18 paraphrased). What do you know about Catholic evangelization? Nothing! Evangelicals also have ministries that try to pull Catholics out of the True Church. Where is your concern for us?

Look at these forums with a “critical” mind; you will see that many of YOU are, in fact, “Jack Chicks” yourself.

How good of you to say so, especially when you are a visitor in our precincts. Suggest you remove the plank in your own eye before criticizing others.

So, since this is an open forum, you might want to give a little more thought to your work before you push the submit button.

Thank you for telling us off. I Hope you feel better now.

What is your purpose in being at Catholic Answers? Oh, I know, from having read some of your posts. You want to prove that you’re right and we’re wrong. But when asked hard questions about Bible and Church history, you cut and run.

Evangelizing among knowledgeable Catholics is slim pickins. Only those that don’t know the Faith are vulnerable to Protestant propaganda.

JMJ Jay

 

[Xenos]

And I thank God that #23 and #24 prove my point.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Xenos:

My friends,

As an Evangelical Christian, let me help you out a bit here.

First, Jack Chick is a twit. I would never encourage anyone to pay any attention to his stuff. There may somewhere truth in it, but digging through the trash for a few pennies just isn’t worth it.

That being said, Why don’t you for a moment read through this thread and others here in the forums, and ask yourself how an Evangelical would respond to what has been said.

For example, we find here that most Evangelicals are just like Jack Chick, just not as blatantly crude. We find that Evangelicals see Catholics as a threat.

In a poll, Karl asks who is “grabbing” catholics; meaning that no one could possibly voluntarily leave the Church.

You folks state that former Catholics are very angry and vile toward the church, but former Evangelicals are appreciative of those Churches for starting them on the road to the Catholic Church. Yet I can show you a regular poster here that identifies himself in his profile as a former Evangelical and now proud catholic. His M. O. is to ask innocent sounding questions about what Evangelicals think, then when he gets an answer, pounces on those views with a glee that would make Jack Chick glow with pride.

The C A L radio program discusses things in the same way that many of you do here. Catholics “evangelize” Evangelicals; but Evangelicals “distribute anti-Catholic literature”. An intresting point of view, but in practice it is the very same stuff.

You will find here people that know better claiming that Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons are Protestant Denominations. Even the radio program frequently implies that, although it is denied when spicifically asked about it.

Look through these forums. You will see so much anger, hatred, and pride in the belief that you are the “only” true Church that it should make you cry. That of course, would depend on whether or not you really ARE the only true Church.

Where is you love for others? Where is your concern for Evangelicals? Where is your concern for JW’s, rather than just trying to keep them from unsuspecting Catholics? Evangelicals have innumerable ministries that attempt to reach these people for Christ. Where is YOUR concern for them? If there is anything there, More love for such people than we see here should be expected.

Look at these forums with a “critical” mind; you will see that many of YOU are, in fact, “Jack Chicks” yourself.

So, since this is an open forum, you might want to give a little more thought to your work before you push the submit button.

In Christ,

Hi Xenos!

Careful not to paint all Catholics with the same broad brush.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Katholikos]

CONTINUED

Father Damien. Another Roman Catholic witness that touched my life is Father Damien.

He touched my life, too. He was my mentor and spiritual companion on my long, long journey from atheism into the Catholic Church. I legally changed my last name to Damien in his honor.

Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

Jay Damien

 

[Katholikos]

Xenos:

And I thank God that #23 and #24 prove my point.

Aw, c’mon, 'fess up. What denomination do you belong to? Who was the founder? When was it founded?

JMJ Jay

 

[Xenos]

And Brother, the answer to your question is that I am here because I am interested in truth. If you really read my posts, you will find that I have been respectful; unless, perhaps I was attacked groundlessly as you just have. You won’t find any attempt on my part to change anyone’s beliefs or anything like the harsh response that I just recieved.

I don’t mind a little satire or sarcasm; it can be effective at times; but really, isn’t that a bit much?

You see, you are claiming that by definition you are the church, and that means you don’t have to act as if that means something in your life. And that, sir bothers me deeply. God’s church should act like it is His church. At least, Evangelicals think so.

And if CA doesn’t want me to learn more about Catholics here, all they have to do is send me an e-mail.

Have I really said something you guys are afraid of?

BTW, if my characterization of Chick is in appropriate, I was unaware of that rule, and I appologize.

Gods love to those of you who share it.

 

[Xenos]

Militant,

I am here because I enjoy respectful conversation and I think that we can all profit from it. Also, I assumed I was welcome. I have not intended to write anything that would try to convert someone from the Catholic Church. It has never been my intention to attack anything that anyone believes.

Perhaps something I have said has triggered thoughts about how someone else has attacked you. I am sorry if that is the case. But I have only been here for a few days; surely I cant be expected to be familiar with the millions of posts already in these forums?

The tracts are not detailed enough.

There are some people who have written some things in these forums which are clearly designed to upset Catholics. IMO, that is not only a waste of time, but unfair. There is nothing more silly than a militant anti-catholic calling C A L, for example to try to score a point with Karl or Jimmy. That is not polite; they should go to some web page where they can bash Catholics among themselves. Surely you don’t want this to be a place where you can bash Evangelicals among yourselves?

I understand your problem with JTC. I dislike his material. All Evangelicals are not like him, however.

If you have the truth,and you want me to come,to it, in all honesty I have to tell you that the way I have been treated here is telling me that you really don’t care about me; and I know that God’s church would.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Xenos you are right… Little snide remarks and quotes running around on CA that remind me of Chick’s mind set. Fortunately, the hateful types are not numerous so I put them on ignore and keep posting here.​

I advise you do take advantage of this lovely feature.
A fellow horrid in error Protestant.

 

[Scott_Waddell]

Lilyofthevalley:

Xenos you are right… Little snide remarks and quotes running around on CA that remind me of Chick’s mind set. Fortunately, the hateful types are not numerous so I put them on ignore and keep posting here.​

I advise you do take advantage of this lovely feature.
A fellow horrid in error Protestant.

Good point. If you think you are being treated mean either

1. Put the offender on the ignore list or,
2. Air out the dirty laundry on a public thread. BUT, do so with a specific quote and a rationale of why you think the quote is out of hand rather than detracting with an abstract, forum-wide charge of mean-spiritedness.

Scott

 

[oat_soda]

When asked by a man who asked him to convince him to become a Catholic, Tom told him to go out and find the church that the devil seems to be beatin’ up on the most and join that one because that means it’s the one he hates the most and is trying to destroy because that’s the one that is from God.

church militant,
good point. the catholic church has to some extent attempted to embrace the secular world. as a result, as our society is degernerating, our church reflects this. but, as you said, there are a lot of good things happening too.

my point is that this if guy jack chick were to really look at the state of our church today, he would not see it as a threat. the guy must be crazy to waste this much time attacking the church when secularism and neopaganism poses much more of a threat to our society. i think protestants attack the church out of fear and you can only fear something if it is threating.

the catholic church by in large is in shambles in the west. i listened to fr. corapi the other week and he said he believes that there are only 3 million “true” catholics. nearly 95% of priests and bishops of this country rejected humane vitea back in the 60’s. whatever the number of true catholics, it is much less then jack chick thinks -43% of church going catholics voted for kerry!!!??, and only 25% of catholics go to church. so that means that only 14% of catholics voted according to the teachings of the church. now how many of those 14% actually believes in ALL the teachings of the church, especially when i comes to contraception?

 

[oat_soda]

Where the heck was this picture taken?

fdlc.org/NationalMeetings/Orlando/2004_menu.htm
fdlc.org/McManus%20Award/TrautmanAward.htm

Today liturgists face major challenges. The euphoria of Vatican II has ended. As the *Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy *fades in time, is it also fading in influence? Do we recognize a pullback from the liturgical principles, a lessening of collaboration, a return to devotionalism rather than Eucharistic celebration? Is there a liturgical backsliding that causes us to be disillusioned, dejected, disheartened? … We must not surrender the progress made at Vatican II.
… When we encounter those who advocate a “reform of the reform”, we must say, “Do not quench the Spirit.” The Holy Spirit was present at Vatican II and gave us new liturgical direction. When we encounter people who harken back to rigidity in rubrics, we must say. “Do not quench the Spirit.” When inculturation is denied and one liturgical form is forced on all, we must say, “Do not quench the Spirit.” When the Scripture translations in our Lectionary are flawed and not proclaimable, we must say, “Give us the richness of God’s Word: Do not quench the Spirit.” The Holy Spirit prompted the renewal and reform of the liturgy. Now, more than ever, we must say, “Do not quench the Spirit.”

bishop trautmen is very critical of the pope and now he’s in charge of the liturgical commission for the usccb.

 

[jmm08]

Church Militant:

When asked by a man who asked him to convince him to become a Catholic, Tom told him to go out and find the church that the devil seems to be beatin’ up on the most and join that one because that means it’s the one he hates the most and is trying to destroy because that’s the one that is from God. He goes on to say that about 3 weeks later the guy called him back to say he was joining the Catholic Church. It’s all warfare guys…always was…always will be…but Jesus said “Lo, I am with you always , even to the end of the world.”

I also had the same thought.
And see Matthew 13:25 – that the enemy would have sown weeds the thickest with the best church.

And similarly, the scourging from God might be greatest with the church dearest to His heart.

My Personal Articles of Faith (continued)

7) Hebrews 12:6 “for whom the Lord loves, he disciplines; he scourges every son he acknowledges”. This is obviously happening in the Roman Catholic Church today, worldwide.

 

[cestusdei]

xenos,
Harsh reply? I have been spit on, cursed, reviled, tracted, condemned, ridiculed, and insulted by evangelicals. Walk in our shoes for awhile. Then you can complain.

 

[Church_Militant]

cestusdei:

Xenos,
As an ex-evangelical and minister I can say this: what chick says evangelicals often believe secretly. He just says it out loud. At world youth day many evangelicals gathered to protest the Pope and try and convert catholic children. Without parental consent mind you. When was the last time catholics did that to an evangelical event? We are here learning how to defend ourselves. Apparently that worries you. I know it does many evangelicals. They don’t like CA. It’s bad for business. I think you need to clean your own house first. When we are no longer targeted by evangelicals then we can shift our focus elsewhere.

A very interesting & appropriate response. Thanks for being there to help out w/that.This has been my experience as well. I guess A/G is considered “evangelical”?

 

[Church_Militant]

Xenos,

My friend I apologize if I have made you feel unwelcome here. You have spoken with some retraint, however I am one of those who HAS caught grief from Prots, evangelicals, JW’s, Mormons and the Mickey Mouse Club is who I figure will be next. Seriously though, as an ex-Prot I know all the baloney I was fed about the Catholic Church over my 34 year sojourn among them. In the end it was an attack by an A/C guy that led me to begin the serious research into the faith of my childhood and ultimately to my return to Catholicism. For that I really have to give praise to God.

Please bear in mind that these forums are pretty much just like the rest of the net and hence ya get some rough characters. To the point that I made it my own policy not to respond to threads by non-Catholics who are not sincere or honest in their queries, or Catholics who are being a jerk. Sometimes it’s hard to tell from their initial post…

My point about Jack Chick is that he is far more widely received than he’s worth and he spreads unbridled hatred of our most holy faith. Sadly, some people believe all his tripe and it puts us in a mess. As you can see, I live down south and this place is eaten up with him. To steal a phrase from Kermit the Frog: “It ain’t easy bein’ green.”

Just don’t freak out…we defend pretty hard, but it doesn’t change the truth.

BTW just for the record: We do not evangelize Protestants…we dialogue w/them. If they choose to convert that is the work of the Holy Spirit. If they are concerned that they might find truth that brings them into full communion w/us…they would have to stop talkin’ to us. The last guy who attacked the Church to me is now studying to become a Catholic. I didn’t do anything but answer his questions…the rest was his decision.

 

[Xenos]

cestusdei:

xenos,
Harsh reply? I have been spit on, cursed, reviled, tracted, condemned, ridiculed, and insulted by evangelicals. Walk in our shoes for awhile. Then you can complain.

OK, let me see. Where have I heard this before… Ah yes…

1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

My friend, let me try once more. How can I KNOW that you are Christ’s Church, when you don’t act like Christ?

The fact that someone else has insulted you, its OK to insult me??? Doesn’t Peter say that you are not even to revile back at the ones that attack you, let alone someone that has NEVER attacked you? Or do you listen to Peter?

THAT is how the world acts. How am I suppossed to see Christ in you?

Now, it would seem that in the context of an open forum we can be quite direct, but insulting is another matter.

Scott, in context of this thread, the references were clear an unrefuted; in fact, as you have seen, they are admitted. The reference to another context that I made earlier:

Quote:
I can show you a regular poster here that identifies himself in his profile as a former Evangelical and now proud catholic. His M. O. is to ask innocent sounding questions about what Evangelicals think, then when he gets an answer, pounces on those views with a glee that would make Jack Chick glow with pride.

was deliberately vague because I wanted to have a reference, not open a debate from another thread here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cestusdei
Xenos,
As an ex-evangelical and minister I can say this: what chick says evangelicals often believe secretly. He just says it out loud. At world youth day many evangelicals gathered to protest the Pope and try and convert catholic children. Without parental consent mind you. When was the last time catholics did that to an evangelical event? We are here learning how to defend ourselves. Apparently that worries you. I know it does many evangelicals. They don’t like CA. It’s bad for business. I think you need to clean your own house first. When we are no longer targeted by evangelicals then we can shift our focus elsewhere.

This shows a misunderstanding of Evangelicals. I am not worried about anything. God’s truth will always win. I have no problem with learning to defend yourself; that does not warrant vicoious attacks.

As far as the World Youth day, that is an interesting example,and perhaps something for another thread. There are several questions that should be answered before judgements are made. I’m not defending what you aledge happened; just commenting.

Now, as you say, this is your website, I’m a guest. That, of course, is why I chose my nick. And you can treat me any way you chose. I may comment on what you say, but you can certainly say what you want. Go for it.

But if what you say is not in line with the Character of Jesus Christ, I have the right to wonder publically and personally about the significnce of that fact. I have done so in this thread.

Blessings to you,

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Cestusdei, since when are Presbyterians “Evangelical”? Last time I looked they were mainline Calvinists.